Any Episcopalians here?

[Anna_Scott]

Thank you for your testimony, Anna. I feel for your sorrow.

Not to add salt to the wound, but I think your story is a poignant affirmation that the Catholic Church’s teaching on divorce–one of the only churches that adheres to Jesus’ hard saying on this matter–rings true.

PRmerger,

You are not adding salt to the wound. That was precisely my point. The Catholic teaching on divorce might have saved my marriage. I can’t say with certainty. I was definitely suffering in the marriage; and my son was, too. So, I don’t regret the separation; but I do regret the divorce. That one decision, made nearly 20 years ago, led to so many heartaches and the effects continue.

Anna

 

[Lapey]

Hi Lapey, thanks although I really didn’t find calling my beliefs “modern” all that offensive. I also don’t believe in the practice of slavery or stoning. Or women keeping quiet in churches. I don’t believe a virgin damsel after some guy “took her and lay with her” and it comes to judgment, needs to marry him after the rapist pays her father. (Deut 22). And there are all sorts of other things in Scripture many Catholic Chrisitans don’t follow today.

But no I am not ashamed of everything Catholic Christian. Called a Catholic not only by myself but by the Church, there are many things Catholic Christian which encompass a unity with others for instance of which I am not ashamed of. I believe the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick for those who desire to receive it, is not shameful and indeed is even a manner in which one may reconcile with God.

Thank you so much for your prayers. I always appreciate prayer. Prayer truly sustains me. The Apostle James encouraged us to pray for one another so that we be saved. I pray for you as well if that’s ok. God bless you Lapey and peace.

No Matt, it was what I posted on the one you commented on. I removed it before you saw it. You just get my goat on every thread you participate. You are always arguing with Catholics, yet you claim to be Catholic. You do not know what it means to be a Catholic Christian.

I won’t call you a cafeteria Catholic any more, I shall now refer to those of your persuasion as paper Catholics, because other than your papers, baptism and other sacraments, you are lost; therefore, I must pray for you to have true conversion. Remember, liberal and conservative, terms you use regularly, are not Christian or “churchy” terms. They are secular and worldly. There is only one truth and it welcomes you and all who are willing to enter.

 

[CMatt25]

Not to be argumentative, but I don’t think that the Church considers itself omniscient, even in that sense. Infallible, yes, in any given pronouncements that meet the definition . But omniscient would seem to me to preclude development of doctrine.

But this is not my area of expertise. Perhaps someone can comment.

GKC

That’s ok GKC. I was using omniscient to mean knowing all things without error even in the sense where the Church considers Herself infallible. But I don’t want to be argumentative over the semantics of it all either. And I don’t claim expertise either. I’m merely a fallible being like the rest of us just trying to follow Christ to the best of our human understanding and abilities. God bless you and peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Lapey,

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. I think the worst of it is not my pain, though that is great; but the sorrow brought to my son, to his father, and the tearing apart of a family. No doubt, I was suffering in the marriage. I just wish I had had a wise counsel back then. Perhaps I would have seen another way, other than divorce.

Anna

Anna, if you don’t mind I will pray for your peace and for that of your son’s and his fathers. Please try not to “beat yourself up” over the past and what you did not have back then. God loves you! Peace to you in Christ.

 

[Windfish]

May I say something? Your search shouldn’t be about what’s a good “fit” for you. It should be what’s faithful and true to God. Incidentally, if the latter is your goal, than it will be the best possible “fit!”

 

[CMatt25]

No Matt, it was what I posted on the one you commented on. I removed it before you saw it.

I won’t call you a cafeteria Catholic any more, I shall now refer to those of your persuasion as paper Catholics, because other than your papers, baptism and other sacraments, you are lost

Oh. Ok well then that’s part of the doing better improved you then I guess! We all still fail at times though Lapey on our lifelong journeys.

Ok I guess then I won’t need to bother even receiving the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick if even on my deathbed should I have the calling to receive it. Since other than the Sacraments I’m lost. God bless you though and peace to you Lapey.

 

[Lapey]

Oh. Ok well then that’s part of the doing better improved you then I guess! We all still fail at times though Lapey on our lifelong journeys.

Ok I guess then I won’t need to bother even receiving the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick if even on my deathbed should I have the calling to receive it. Since other than the Sacraments I’m lost. God bless you though and peace to you Lapey.

I’m sure you can get a piece of paper for that too!!!

 

[CMatt25]

May I say something? Your search shouldn’t be about what’s a good “fit” for you. It should be what’s faithful and true to God. Incidentally, if the latter is your goal, than it will be the best possible “fit!”

Of course you can.

But whenever discussions like this always turn into we Catholics know better and have the truth and Episcopalians (or fill in the blank with whomever else) do not, it reminds me of a poem I read.

It went something like this.

When we get to heaven we’re going to be surprised of the some of the folks we see. And we ask Christ why everyone is so quiet and look so stunned.

We ask Christ to give us a clue. And He replies judge not my child, because they’re all in shock, no one thought they’d be seeing “you”!

(Not you specifically Windfish, just mean the usage of “you” in general of course)

 

[Lapey]

Of course you can.

But whenever discussions like this always turn into we Catholics know better and have the truth and Episcopalians (or fill in the blank with whomever else) do not, it reminds me of a poem I read.

It went something like this.

When we get to heaven we’re going to be surprised of the some of the folks we see. And we ask Christ why everyone is so quiet and look so stunned.

We ask Christ to give us a clue. And He replies judge not my child, because they’re all in shock, no one thought they’d be seeing “you”!

(Not you specifically Windfish, just mean the usage of “you” in general of course)

Do you believe I am judging you? That would cause the truth to be deflected. Whatever works to ease your pain. Blame it on me, I can handle it, by the grace of God.

I am too conservative, I need to be more liberal. Let me ask you something there Mr. Catholic, are the terms liberal and conservative part of Church lingo or secular. Furthermore, liberals tend to favor a pro-choice stance and conservatives a pro-life stance. The Church says that abortion is “intrinsically evil”, there is no use that is acceptable and it is always wrong. Do you agree with this stance, and is this stance conservative, liberal or moral? Please commit to something.

We have railroaded this thread. Us “Catholics” were not asked.

Sorry to the OP.

 

[1234]

Well, it’s happened again. Another innocent Trial Member poster’s thread completely hijacked by The Wranglers.

Y’all will notice that the OP has long gone…

…probably to The Episcopal Church (the TEC, not the other guys–(s)he liked the idea of a woman bishop, remember?)

 

[PRmerger]

Ok so when a spouse fornicates (Matt 5:32 and Matt19:9 in the Douay Rheims) with someone not their spouse, they are not being unfaithful and are not committing adultery. I sure wish now someone had told those Douay Rheims folk that fornication was not a cause for divorce so they hadn’t put that in there as words of Christ.

I’m not sure what DR has to do with this discussion.

Are you under the misapprehension that the DR is the perfect translation of the Bible?

And, I’m not going to belabor this point with you, Matt. I appreciate your honesty and you are a man of character, that is clear.

So I will simply ask you to consider this: does Reason tell you that Jesus would say, "If you want to divorce your wife you must commit adultery first! That’s the only way that I will allow divorce. I give you the Adultery Loophole."

It does seem like that’s what your non-Catholic understanding of Matthew is saying–yet, when one examines this “loophole” it truly doesn’t make sense.

 

[PRmerger]

I know. The Church only proclaims being omniscient on defined doctrine concerning faith and morals.

I really wish you wouldn’t proclaim things about the Church that you have no understanding of. It’s scandalous that you’ve attached the word “Catholic” to your name.

The Church does not claim she is omniscient.

 

[PRmerger]

Anna, if you don’t mind I will pray for your peace and for that of your son’s and his fathers. Please try not to “beat yourself up” over the past and what you did not have back then. God loves you! Peace to you in Christ.

Just so you know, Matt, you’re proclaiming a Catholic doctrine there (bolded)

It seems that dogmas and doctrines are indeed important, aren’t they?

 

[CMatt25]

Do you believe I am judging you? That would cause the truth to be deflected. Whatever works to ease your pain. Blame it on me, I can handle it, by the grace of God.

I am too conservative, I need to be more liberal. Let me ask you something there Mr. Catholic, are the terms liberal and conservative part of Church lingo or secular. Furthermore, liberals tend to favor a pro-choice stance and conservatives a pro-life stance. The Church says that abortion is “intrinsically evil”, there is no use that is acceptable and it is always wrong. Do you agree with this stance, and is this stance conservative, liberal or moral? Please commit to something.

We have railroaded this thread. Us “Catholics” were not asked.

Sorry to the OP.

I don’t recall Lapey if you’ve ever said I could not be saved in my present state or not. You can be whoever you want Lapey. Who’s Mr Catholic?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna, if you don’t mind I will pray for your peace and for that of your son’s and his fathers. Please try not to “beat yourself up” over the past and what you did not have back then. God loves you! Peace to you in Christ.

I’ll take all the prayers I can get.

Anna

 

[CMatt25]

I’m not sure what DR has to do with this discussion.

Are you under the misapprehension that the DR is the perfect translation of the Bible?

And, I’m not going to belabor this point with you, Matt. I appreciate your honesty and you are a man of character, that is clear.

So I will simply ask you to consider this: does Reason tell you that Jesus would say, "If you want to divorce your wife you must commit adultery first! That’s the only way that I will allow divorce. I give you the Adultery Loophole."

It does seem like that’s what your non-Catholic understanding of Matthew is saying–yet, when one examines this “loophole” it truly doesn’t make sense.

DR was at least at one time a very popular Catholic edition of the Bible. And no, Christ didn’t say to first decide you want a diviorce then go committ adultery. He said if you have committed adultery, then that would be grounds for your spouse to divorce ya.

 

[CMatt25]

I really wish you wouldn’t proclaim things about the Church that you have no understanding of. It’s scandalous that you’ve attached the word “Catholic” to your name.

The Church does not claim she is omniscient.

Ok probably just the difference in our definitions of omniscient. Webster defines it as knowing all things. And infallible means to know without error all things declared infallible. Like I said not interested in getting into a semantics debate here.

 

[CMatt25]

Just so you know, Matt, you’re proclaiming a Catholic doctrine there (bolded)

It seems that dogmas and doctrines are indeed important, aren’t they?

:bounce: :dancing: :extrahappy: See there. And Lapey judged me “ashamed of everything Catholic Christian except the name”. :bigyikes:

 

[CMatt25]

I’ll take all the prayers I can get.

Anna

Thanks Anna. Me too. We’re all on our walks with the same Lord. Perhaps different paths along the way but all striving to get to the same destination. Peace.

 

[PRmerger]

:bounce: :dancing: :extrahappy: See there. And Lapey judged me “ashamed of everything Catholic Christian except the name”. :bigyikes:

I don’t know what that even means.

Are there any Catholic doctrines or dogmas that you struggle with, yet you agree that are part of God’s revelation?