Any Ex Mormon Missionaries out there?

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The two of you together make this neverending debate fun!! :tiphat:
 
I was told by several missionaries that both the Book of mormon and the Bible held the everlasting truth, and that if one or the other no longer existed, the remaining one would transmit the Truth, fully.

I asked them, if this is the case, then where in the book of mormon is the oh so important doctrine of baptism for the dead? God must have forgotten that when giving Joseph the revelation.
 
justinthemartyr said:
I was told by several missionaries that both the Book of mormon and the Bible held the everlasting truth, and that if one or the other no longer existed, the remaining one would transmit the Truth, fully.
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The missionaries are lying to you. The Book of Mormon teaches that the bible is missing “many plain and precious truths” that were removed by the Great and Abominable Church (1 Ne 13:26, 28, 29), so much so that it cannot transmit the gospel fully. In fact, according to the BoM, this allegedly redacted bible causes many to fall into Satan’s power (see the end of verse 29).

That is one of the main reasons why the coming forth of the Book of Mormon was necessary in the Mormon “restoration”.
26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
• • •
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
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29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
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  • 1 Ne 13:26,28,29
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Paul (an Ex Mormon Missionary)
 
PaulDupre said:
The missionaries are lying to you. The Book of Mormon teaches that the bible is missing “many plain and precious truths” that were removed by the Great and Abominable Church (1 Ne 13:26, 28, 29), so much so that it cannot transmit the gospel fully. In fact, according to the BoM, this allegedly redacted bible causes many to fall into Satan’s power (see the end of verse 29).

That is one of the main reasons why the coming forth of the Book of Mormon was necessary in the Mormon “restoration”.

Paul (an Ex Mormon Missionary)
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Sounds a bit like what the Koran said about the Bible and the New Testament having become corrupt somewhere in time. This argument appears to have been believed somehow, and certainly a bit quickly…
How did you come to leave them and to accept the Bible as being truly the Word of God, Paul?
 
PaulDupre said:
The missionaries are lying to you. The Book of Mormon teaches that the bible is missing “many plain and precious truths” that were removed by the Great and Abominable Church (1 Ne 13:26, 28, 29), so much so that it cannot transmit the gospel fully. In fact, according to the BoM, this allegedly redacted bible causes many to fall into Satan’s power (see the end of verse 29).

Paul (an Ex Mormon Missionary)
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And this makes it doubtful that JS read it from the golden plates, it seems. “The Great and Abominable Church” wouldn’t have appeared in a prophesy in such terms, I’m quite sure!!!
 
RebeccaJ said:
A mormon’s faith stands and falls on the book of mormon and Joseph Smith. It is not uncommon for people who leave mormonism to become atheists, as they have been taught by the mormon church very anti-Christian thoughts and beliefs. Including that the Bible is full of errors and cannot be trusted…]
I have friends who are former mormons, who are not only very anti-mormon, but also anti-Christian. And, if you hang out with mormons, or read their boards like this one, you will certainly see this vein of anti-Christianity that permeates all of their beliefs. It is in fact the root of Smith’s claims, that all of Christianity was wrong, and so he created a religion that was “right”.
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Which makes any conversion from Mormonism to Catholicism or to any other Christian denomination quite a wonder, I suppose.
How sad for those who have believed JS about the Holy Bible having become unfaithful to the original writings in the course of time… God help them!😊
 
Lapell said:
Sounds a bit like what the Koran said about the Bible and the New Testament having become corrupt somewhere in time. This argument appears to have been believed somehow, and certainly a bit quickly…
How did you come to leave them and to accept the Bible as being truly the Word of God, Paul?
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I left the LDS Church in 1986 after several years of studying the bible in earnest and coming to understand that LDS doctrine was not compatible with it, especially when it comes to the nature of God.

When I left the LDS I became agnostic (very common for ex-Mormons). In 1990 I took up the bible again and studied it objectively (no filters) for about ten years before the Lord gave me an understanding that the bible was truly His word. It was studying the bible and the early church fathers that led me to the Catholic Church in 2000. I have a real passion for the bible and relish it daily.

Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
I left the LDS Church in 1986 after several years of studying the bible in earnest and coming to understand that LDS doctrine was not compatible with it, especially when it comes to the nature of God.

When I left the LDS I became agnostic (very common for ex-Mormons). In 1990 I took up the bible again and studied it objectively (no filters) for about ten years before the Lord gave me an understanding that the bible was truly His word. It was studying the bible and the early church fathers that led me to the Catholic Church in 2000. I have a real passion for the bible and relish it daily.

Paul
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Thanks be to God!👍 👍 👍
 
I am hoping there is a few ex Mormon missionaries turned Catholic out there that can help me

Honesty is of utmost importance if one is ever to see the truth about Mormonism. I was once a rabid Mormon defender however, the truth about the Book of Abraham admitted to by the LDS church and several Egyptologists left me shaking my head at what an obvious fraud Joseph Smith really was. Briefly, according to LDS writers, the “Book of Abraham” was supposed to have been written on papyrus by Abraham about 4,000 years ago. This very same papyrus, it is claimed, was acquired by Joseph Smith from an antiquities dealer in 1835. Smith translated the papyrus and published it under the title, “The Book of Abraham.” It was accepted by the Mormon Church as Scripture and is now published as part of the Pearl of Great Price - one of the four standard works of the church.

Many problems have now arisen due to these claims
  1. LDS egyptologists and others now can read the papyrus Joseph Smith claimed was the book of Abraham written on by Abraham himself. They all agree that it is not the book of Abraham and doesn’t even mention Abraham. It is a common Egyptian funeral text call the book of breathings etc. The LDS church admitted this in their magazine, The Ensign, July 1988, pp. 51-53, Michael Rhodes (an LDS Egyptologist)tried to answer the following question: "Why doesn’t the translation of the Egyptian papyri, match the text of the Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price? In this article Michael Rhodes clearly laid out the problem which faced the church: “First of all, from paleographic and historical considerations, the Book of Breathings papyrus can reliably be dated to around A.D. 60 - much too late for Abraham to have written it… when one compares the text of the book of Abraham with a translation of the Book of Breathings; they clearly are not the same.” "Before I start, let me say that I… like you, definitely favor the second; namely that Joseph Smith did not have the actual text of the Book of Abraham before him… There is no doubt that the original Papyrus of Facsimile Number1 belongs to the Book of Breathings text. The name of the owner of the Papyrus, Hor son of Userwer, is found both on this papyrus and in the text of the Book of Breathings… although we do not have the original of Facsimile Number 3, the name Hor can clearly be read in the hieroglyphs on this facsimile, and it seems very probable that this illustration was originally located at the end of the Book of Breathings papyrus now in the Church’s possession. I am not ruling it out completely, but I think it is unlikely that Joseph Smith ever had the actual text of the Book of Abraham in his possession… " The RLDS church took the Book of Abraham out of their cannon of scripture because it was an obvious fraud.
  2. Joseph Smith made a book called “Egyptian alphabet and Grammar” This book was a key he used in translating the papyrus. IN this book he had a column of Egyptian characters on the left and to the right he gave a translation. Sometimes Joseph translated one symbol into a half chapters of words when in reality one symbol was never more than one word or a short phrase. Now Egyptologists can read this and all agree that Joseph Smith’s translation was completely false. Not even one word matched. 3. LDS apologists came up with the argument that Joseph Smith didn’t have the book of Abraham and didn’t translate the papyrus but God gave him a revelation instead. The problems with these arguments is Joseph Smith repeatedly said he translated the book in official LDS history (see exact references below) and the original foreword to the book said it was taken from papyrus written upon by the hand of Abraham himself. . 4. Facsimile translations are completely false. Example, in the book a picture depicts a man lying on a table with another man standing over him and a bird hovering above. Joseph Smith said this was Abraham on an alter about to be sacrificed by one of the Egyptian priests, the bird was an angel sent to deliver him etc. All Egyptologists know this actually represents a man being mummified and prepared for entrance into the Egyptian after life.
Church History References I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt… (History of the Church, vol. 2, page 236)
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Joseph Smith not only said that he was going to translate the records, but he also maintained he produced a "correct translation" of the documents:

"The record of Abraham and Joseph, found with the mummies [sic] is beautifully written... I have given a brief history of the manner in which the writings of the fathers, Abraham and Joseph, have been preserved, and how I came in possession of the same - a correct translation of which I shall give in its proper place." (History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 348, 350-51)



"The remainder of this month, I was continually engaged in translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients." (History of the Church, vol. 2, page 238)

"October 1. -This afternoon I labored on the Egyptian alphabet... during the research, the principles of astronomy as understood by Father Abraham and the ancients unfolded to our understanding, the particulars of which will appear hereafter.   (Ibid., page 286)

Tuesday, [Nov.] 24. - ... In the afternoon we translated some of the Egyptian records ....

Thursday, 26. - Spent the day in translating Egyptian characters from the papyrus... (Ibid., page 320)

At the beginning of the handwritten manuscript of the Book of Abraham, Joseph Smith asserted that it was a "Translation of the Book of Abraham written by his own hand upon papyrus and found in the catacombs of Egypt."
 
xmormon,

A word to the wise: It is against forum rules to paste the same post (especially long ones) into multiple threads. It’s a good post, but I would not want to see you suspended over it.

God bless you,
Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
xmormon,

A word to the wise: It is against forum rules to paste the same post (especially long ones) into multiple threads. It’s a good post, but I would not want to see you suspended over it.

God bless you,
Paul
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Hmm. I haven’t seen that in the rules. How specific is this? Often the same post applies to several different threads… Where is this at in the rules?
 
Another thing that I found rather strange in the Book of Mormon was the list of the people who checked and approved the golden plates as God’s Word was Joseph Smith’s own father, who was supposed to be a Church minister, and it was done not long after the discovery of the plates! I thought to myself, “If this man was a Church minister, how could he approve his son so quickly? There should have been some opposition, and it would last at least a few years!”… I was rather surprised at this.
 
Where did you hear that Joseph Smith, Sr. was a church minister?

Paul
 
I didn’t hear it, I read it, I believe it was in the text presenting that list. I had received some pamphlets on Joseph Smith, too. Well, wasn’t Joseph Smith Sr. a Church minister?
 
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