Any ideas why some Protestants reject the trinity and some accept it?

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I think it’s likely that some of the Protestant denominations that reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity rejected it out of extreme suspicion of the Catholic Church and since the doctrine of the Holy Trinity comes from the Catholic Church. Some anti-Catholics, who after realizing that the bible came from the Catholic Church, even become suspicious of the Bible and start believing that they can pick and choose which parts they believe weren’t influenced by Catholicism. They each believe that the Holy Spirit is giving them guidance on this. I actually have a relative that believes this way. This opens up a big can of worms since it means that each individual basically ends up defining God essentially in their own image.
I think I agree with you there. This sect absolutely hated Catholicism. While they claim to be bible only they really do as they do to be the opposite of Catholicism. I often heard growing up “we can’t do that, that would be Catholic”.

“Bible only” or prejudice?
 
Well, I was attempting to adopt Trinitarian vernacular learned from early posts to describe the LDS view. Perhaps I fell short. Help me out here. Given the LDS belief that the Father and the Son have separate spirits, and separate bodies, would the phrase “separate and distinct” work here. And since the Trinity can be described as “three persons, one being”, couldn’t a non-Trinitarian view of the Godhead be “three persons, three beings”?
Ah, okay.

I personally prefer to let each religion define their doctrines based on their own understandings of terms, along with defining what those words mean within that context, because a lot of confusion happens when we try to apply one understanding/framework to another.

However, from a Trinitarian perspective, yes, the LDS Godhead would be separate persons and separate beings, but that does not add to your original argument that that separation of persons and beings somehow makes John 17:22 more intelligible than a Trinitarian view on that verse, especially since your presentation of the implications of the Trinity doctrine on John 17:22 wouldn’t necessarily be how actual Trinitarians interpret that verse.

From the Trinitarian perspective, the LDS position entails not only separate persons but also three separate beings for various reasons. The pertinent part is on the “being”. “Being” is referring to what “is”. This is sometimes referred to as “nature”. For the Trinitarian, it is the nature of “God” to eternally exist as three distinct Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. These Persons are not each other, and they have eternally existed in this relationship with each other. They are all God, and have the same Divine attributes, and always have. There never was a time (including “before” time) when the Trinity did not exist as such. Because their very existence is intimately and eternally tied together (since it is the nature of their existence to exist as a Trinity), and you cannot have one Person without the other, they are termed “one being”.

In contrast, the LDS view on the Godhead is very different, and points to three separate beings, from the Trinitarian perspective, for various reasons. Firstly, it is believed that the Son and the Holy Ghost, like all of us, are spiritual children of the Father (and Heavenly Mother). So, there was a time when they just existed as “intelligence”, prior to being spiritually begotten. The Father Himself progressed to Godhood at some point in eternities past (as various LDS prophets have taught, including Joseph Smith). The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost came into a covenant relationship at some point, after the Son and Holy Ghost were spiritually begotten. Therefore, from the Trinitarian perspective, the LDS view is three separate beings because the three Persons do not have it as their one nature/being to eternally exist in relationship with each other as a Unity (since we clearly see the differences in origin of the Persons), in addition to the notion of progression to Godhood.

Another difference was also mentioned before: for Trinitarians, there is a difference of “nature” or “species”, if you will, between man and God. There is a chasm between man and God, a chasm that was bridged by Christ, but it is there nonetheless. Although we may become children by adoption, we are not of the same nature as God. In contrast, LDS theology teaches that we are all of the same nature or species as God (God the Father Himself being embodied and being a man). The difference is in degree of progression.
 
I recently attended a Bible College with a Catholic friend . The lady who was the tutor
and in charge with her husband had previously been a Bank Manager and also a
Lawyer , but now was committed to running a successful and profitable Bible College. Since I was the newbie a lot of her presentation was directed to me.
When she got through talking about money ( it sounded like a few thousand £s)
the conversation got to discussing various Bible passages. Then she announced
that " there is no Blessed Trinity - only our Lord Jesus " I disagreed with her
and not being able to convince me of her argument she said that she had been
to heaven on several occasions and it had been shown to her , beyond a doubt
that there is only Jesus – No Father and No Holy Spirit. that the Father and the Holy Spirit are simply manifestations of the Lord Jesus. When I disagreed with her she reiterated her visits to Heaven where she had "been told ’ this revelation .
I thank God for the Catholic Church which is so clear and so unchanging in its
teaching, which protects us from all sorts of error .
 
I recently attended a Bible College with a Catholic friend . The lady who was the tutor
and in charge with her husband had previously been a Bank Manager and also a
Lawyer , but now was committed to running a successful and profitable Bible College. Since I was the newbie a lot of her presentation was directed to me.
When she got through talking about money ( it sounded like a few thousand £s)
the conversation got to discussing various Bible passages. Then she announced
that " there is no Blessed Trinity - only our Lord Jesus " I disagreed with her
and not being able to convince me of her argument she said that she had been
to heaven on several occasions and it had been shown to her , beyond a doubt
that there is only Jesus – No Father and No Holy Spirit. that the Father and the Holy Spirit are simply manifestations of the Lord Jesus. When I disagreed with her she reiterated her visits to Heaven where she had "been told ’ this revelation .
I thank God for the Catholic Church which is so clear and so unchanging in its
teaching, which protects us from all sorts of error .
Amen! I am thankful for the gift of faith in our One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!
 
The are regurgitating an old heresy that Christianity fought against for centuries. It was called Arianism (the founder was a priest named Arius). They denied the divinity of Jesus. This is what happens when you don’t have the teaching authority of the Church. Virtually ANYTHING you wish to believe can be supported by some twisting of a Scripture passage. So when you only use the Bible as your authority, confusion begins to reign.

The Arian heresy was the reason that the ecumenical council of Nicaea in A.D. 325 was called by the Emperor Constantine. He himself leaned towards the Arian view, but wanted the Church to declare definitively once-and-for-all which belief was correct, so that the empire was not torn apart.

A very informative book you might enjoy is The Fathers Know Best by Jimmy Akin. It is a compilation of the writings of the first Christians, and their beliefs. It is excellent.
 
An excellent, easily read and handy digest of all major heresies is Dissent From The Creed written by Fr. Richard M. Hogan, and avbaialble from Our Sunday Visitor. It is a great resource, and to me, demonstrates that all heresy is driven by a worldly spirit, as the various heresies seem to be nothing more than recycling of what has passed before. All heresy seems to have, as its purpose, simple division in the Body of Christ.
 
Someone who rejects tbe Trinity is not even a Christisn, let alone a Protestant Christian.
 
Someone who rejects tbe Trinity is not even a Christisn, let alone a Protestant Christian.
Jesus seems to have given a different criteria to be considered His follower.

John 13:35 (KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 
Jesus seems to have given a different criteria to be considered His follower.

John 13:35 (KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Because we are recognized as Christ’s disciples by how much we love does not mean that is all there is to it. I would agree that without love it matters little what we believe. But this does not mean that what we believe doesn’t matter. Jesus was God’s revelation of himself to mankind; his only Word. He taught the Apostles and gave them immense authority. They in turn handed on this deposit of faith and authority to their successors, the bishops. Those who reject the teachings of the Apostles, and further, contradict those teachings, are in error, possibly grave error. So yes, there is a certain criteria, the criteria established by the Apostles, and it is found in the Catholic Church.
 
Jesus seems to have given a different criteria to be considered His follower.

John 13:35 (KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
It is difficult, at times, to be firmly gentle when speaking the truth. It is necessary to be so, if we want it to be perceived that what we say we say because we love the Truth, who is Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, who stepped into time to show us the Way.
 
Jesus seems to have given a different criteria to be considered His follower.

John 13:35 (KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
That is one of the key parts of Jesus’ teaching, but He said a lot more than that. For example, in Matthew 10:38 Jesus says, “and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.” In Matthew 18:17 Jesus says, “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” And in John Chapter 6 Jesus says:

I am the bread of life.

Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.

This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.

I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.

This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever."
 
Jesus also said this:

John 17:3 (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Seems like it’s important to Jesus to know who God is. 🙂
 
Because we are recognized as Christ’s disciples by how much we love does not mean that is all there is to it. I would agree that without love it matters little what we believe. But this does not mean that what we believe doesn’t matter. Jesus was God’s revelation of himself to mankind; his only Word. He taught the Apostles and gave them immense authority. They in turn handed on this deposit of faith and authority to their successors, the bishops. Those who reject the teachings of the Apostles, and further, contradict those teachings, are in error, possibly grave error. So yes, there is a certain criteria, the criteria established by the Apostles, and it is found in the Catholic Church.
So are you saying that the criteria for being a Christian is only found in the Catholic Church that that only Catholics are Christian? Or are you saying that the criteria for being a Christian is only found in the Catholic Church and that anyone who meets that criteria in or out of the CC is Christian? Or what? There are plenty of folks who accept the Trinity and reject the authority of the CC.
 
The gift of the Holy Spirit is unity. Because there is only One God.

The Holy Trinity is first and foremost mystery. We are not gods so we will never be able to ever get our concept of Him understood and defined in the way we understand.

God is way too big for the human mind. I like St. Thomas Aquinas analogy…human knowledge is as an eye of the owl next to the sun. And Scriptures says anyone who sees God will die.

So if we could get our mind to conceptualize God as He is, we would be dead.

And what we are concerned about in understanding what it means to be Holy Trinity will be answered in heaven when we face Him and we will want to praise and glorify Him for all eternity. I mean, like how we want to understand the concept today will be ‘as straw’ when we are finally in heaven, – full of suprises that today we cannot even imagine – and once and for all see our God face to face.

We are conceptualizing God’s personhood to a human person. God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One but have difference essence, but this Trinity also is stating the truth that ours is the God of Love, and Love is relational, reciprocating, communal.

So for a Catholic, our goal in life really is to enter into communion with the Holy Trinity, and subsequently within this communion with God, particularly evident at Mass, we are in communion and oneness with each other.

The Catholic faith reveal the fullness of Who Christ is. As far as holiness goes, we are all on different levels, and nobody, not even the Holy Father, has a monopoly on holiness. We will all be judged according to our merits.
 
That is one of the key parts of Jesus’ teaching, but He said a lot more than that. For example, in Matthew 10:38 Jesus says, “and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.” In Matthew 18:17 Jesus says, “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” And in John Chapter 6 Jesus says:

I am the bread of life.

Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.

This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.

I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.

This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever."
Good point. It just seems that many of us strive and fall short here and there and so to have a list of say seven items that define a Christian and then to declare that someone who only meets 5 of the 7 is not Christian seems elitist
 
Jesus also said this:

John 17:3 (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Seems like it’s important to Jesus to know who God is. 🙂
In my thread that attempted to describe the Trinity in a mathematical formula, I almost quoted John 4:22, but thought better of it. In that thread two responders said that the Trinity is impossible to understand, and KathleenGee says the same thing in post 55 of this thread. So I don’t know how Trinitarians reconcile their belief with John 17:3. John 4:22 seems more appropriate… (KJV) Ye worship ye know not what…
 
In my thread that attempted to describe the Trinity in a mathematical formula,
Which I personally think is an error, since the infinite God cannot be reduced to a mathematical formula (I believe I mentioned my distaste for Trinitarians that use 1x1x1=1 as a mathematical formula). Further, most analogies (i.e. water/steam/ice, three leaf clover, etc) fail.
I almost quoted John 4:22, but thought better of it. In that thread two responders said that the Trinity is impossible to understand, and KathleenGee says the same thing in post 55 of this thread. So I don’t know how Trinitarians reconcile their belief with John 17:3. John 4:22 seems more appropriate… (KJV) Ye worship ye know not what…
Ignoring the contextual meaning of John 4:22, as well as allowing which posters you are referring to to provide their own understandings of their words, allow me to demonstrate why this is a non-issue:

Trinitarians believe, as we’ve mentioned, that the one God eternally exists as three distinct Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Further, orthodox Christians believe that we can only know God based on what He reveals about Himself, and that this self-revelation culminated in the Incarnation of God on this Earth, Jesus Christ. The Trinity is believed to be a Divinely revealed Truth. Further, orthodox Christians believe that we cannot fully know God. We can know what He reveals about Himself, but we certainly cannot fully know everything about Him. Indeed, it will quite literally be “life eternal” to know God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

Also, while I do think that the Trinity is a lot more understandable than many make it out to be (especially once we understand the terms being used, and stop confusing it with Modalism, which is very common (especially in LDS apologetics against the Trinity)), some things we cannot comprehend at this time with our finite human minds (and that isn’t just limited to the Trinity), such as how “one God” can exist as three distinct Persons.

So, yes, John 17:3 clearly states that life eternal is to know God [the Father] and Jesus Christ (and presumably the Holy Ghost), and Trinitarians agree. Trinitarians believe that what we know about God is what He reveals about Himself, and that the Trinity is a Divinely revealed Truth. Therefore, we know whom we worship, since God has been quite clearly defined (as He has revealed, and as has been further expounded on by Holy Spirit-inspired Councils), as we’ve discussed before. While we certainly do not fully understand God (I’d hope that no religion would claim they do), and while the Trinity is not completely comprehensible (again, something not limited to the Trinity, as there are other things in the Gospel, including within Mormonism, that are believed but not fully understood or that don’t fully comport with our limited human minds), it is most certainly known who we worship, as well as the nature of the Trinity.

Therefore, John 4:22 does not apply to Trinitarians.
 
There are plenty of folks who accept the Trinity and reject the authority of the CC.
That is indeed very true, but does that really excuse them? Didn’t Jesus say, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades’ gates shall not prevail against it.

‘Assembly’ is a SINGULAR collective noun - He did not say or mean ‘assemblies’.

AMEN, amen I say to you: He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold {singular], but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber. - John 10:1
 
I think others refuse to accept belief in the Holy Trinity because it reflects education and there are some Protestant sects who refuse to look at history and theology. They simply cannot and will not look at it, and want the simple way of walking in the Spirit through the use of Scripture quotes and contemporary books that show how to live out particular principles drawn from particular Bible passages.

But they do not look at the whole of Scripture, its context, the understanding of Salvation History and its people. They do not look at the people of faith – where God enters – a gathering of people in faith lived out in context of their times. So it is very hard to open dialogue with them. These are part of the same genre that accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary, or seeing the Pope as a demi god.

Gazelam, Dr Scott Hahn has this book out that has helped alot of people, ‘Worthy is the Lamb’. It explains our worship and its background, and how the Old Testament temple is fulfilled in the Mass.

From there, understanding more of the Sacred Banquet…the form of worship dictated by none other than Christ Himself, this Sacred Banquet enables us to enter into this sacred communion of universal shared faith experienced as a united communion of believers.

God Himself is the Author of unity, of oneness. This is our calling, to enter into communion of the Holy Trinity at Mass. Participating at Mass, being united with the Glorified Jesus before the Heavenly Father through the Holy Spirit, standing broken by our own sinfulness but united with our Lord, this is the greatest thing we can do as Christians in the battle against evil.

The greatest force of goodness in the world is the Mass. Dr Scott Hahn called the Mass, ‘the nuclear bomb’ against evil. We Catholics are called to unite ourselves with the Mass said around the world, to participate in it by our will and to draw on its merits, even if we cannot attend publicly.

To enter into the Holy Trinity is something we can most perfectly do today at Mass.
 
So are you saying that the criteria for being a Christian is only found in the Catholic Church that that only Catholics are Christian? Or are you saying that the criteria for being a Christian is only found in the Catholic Church and that anyone who meets that criteria in or out of the CC is Christian? Or what? There are plenty of folks who accept the Trinity and reject the authority of the CC.
Accepting the Trinity does not necessarily make one Christian. There is much more that needs to be accepted as well. What I am saying is that if someone is looking for criteria that makes one Christian, it is found in the Catholic Church because it is found in the faith of the Apostles. So if one wishes to know all that makes one Christian, that person should come to the Catholic Church. To the degree that one’s beliefs correspond to Catholic doctrine, that is the degree to which one is Christian. In the case of LDS, there is little, if anything, that would correspond to Catholic doctrine, so little, in fact, that our Church does not consider the LDS Christian.
 
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