Any non catholic: what is your opinion on Mary the Mother of God?

[Thesealsareope]

Please be more precise. Which teachings are you referring to?

How do you account for Moses at the Transfiguration? And the theif on the cross (Today you will be with Me in paradise)? And Luke 15:7?

So, you never ask others to pray for you, or for others?

This just isn’t the case.

And much of your assertions here do, too.

Jon

The thief on the cross in ACTUAL Greek did NOT say that he would be with Him in paradise that day.
What is actually says is “I first then later mine will be in paradise”.
In other words He said “today i will be in paradise and later my people will be there.”
The Scriptures clearly say in many places the dead do not think and know nothing.They go to the dust of the ground.The resurrection is a resurrection to EARTH not Heaven,.The Scriptures CLEARLY say NO man goes to Heaven except Him that descends and descends.

 

[Dokimas]

**Ahhh - just what I though. Failure **to understand.

Protestants often say that to “pray” to somebody in heaven to ask them to for pray for us is idolatry because prayer is reserved for God alone. This is a complete failure to understand the word.

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To pray, in the most rudimentary definition of the word, is to petition – to ask something of someone.

Hold on a minute. You ask, “How do I pray to Mary”? I responded with, “The Hail Mary”. You accuse me of saying you’re practicing idolatry. Then you say speaking to others with requests is prayer.

You, a) falsely imply I called you practicing idolatry, then b) you contradict yourself.

So, what’s up?

 

[elvisman]

The fact is that 99.9% of the teachings of the Church are contrary to Scripture.
I am happy to debate all the teachings and show using nothing but Scripture that not only is the English translations poor translations and in many cases wrong but that the teachings are also.
For example.The Holy Bible in English in Exodus 33 says that moses could not see Jehovahs face.But the ACTUAL hebrew says to look at His face.And to back that up Gen18 clearly says that Abraham saw Jehovahs face ,he even got Him a drink and bread and washed His feet.The scriptures are clear.Jehovah is not the Father.Jehovah and Jesus are one and the same.

**That’s not what I asked you. I asked you HOW do I pray Mary. I already gave the response to Dokimas.

Sure - if you want to debate ANY subject regarding Catholic teaching please do. That’s what this forum is all about. BUT - please keep the conversation on track with the thread. This thread is called, "Any non catholic: what is your opinion on Mary the Mother of God?"

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As for your claim that 99.9% of what we believe in is wrong - I am happy to engage you in a charitable conversation about that because you are clearly wrong and can be proven wrong using the Scriptures alone.

 

[elvisman]

Hold on a minute. You ask, “How do I pray to Mary”? I responded with, “The Hail Mary”. You accuse me of saying you’re practicing idolatry. Then you say speaking to others with requests is prayer.

You, a) falsely imply I called you practicing idolatry, then b) you contradict yourself.

So, what’s up?

I asked Thesealsareope- not you - HOW do I pray to Mary. I didn’t ask, WHAT do I pray. He said that we should pray to the Ark as we pray to Mary.

Secondly - HOW am I contradicting myself?

 

[elvisman]

The thief on the cross in ACTUAL Greek did NOT say that he would be with Him in paradise that day.
What is actually says is “I first then later mine will be in paradise”.
In other words He said “today i will be in paradise and later my people will be there.”
The Scriptures clearly say in many places the dead do not think and know nothing.They go to the dust of the ground.The resurrection is a resurrection to EARTH not Heaven,.The Scriptures CLEARLY say NO man goes to Heaven except Him that descends and descends.

As John pointed out - the Transfiguration CLEARLY proves you wrong.

I would also add that Heb. 12:1 tells us that “we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”** and that we are to live accordingly. A witness is somebody who sees and hears things (Acts 1:8, 2:32) – otherwise they are
not witnesses. Revelation 5:8 shows the Elders in heaven bringing our prayers before God.

Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily into heaven. Are they dead?

 

[Thesealsareope]

That’s not what I asked you. I asked you HOW do I pray Mary. I *already *gave the response to Dokimas.

Sure - if you want to debate ANY subject regarding Catholic teaching please do. That’s what this forum is all about. BUT - please keep the conversation on track with the thread. This thread is called, “Any non catholic: what is your opinion on Mary the Mother of God?”

---

As for your claim that 99.9% of what we believe in is wrong - I am happy to engage you in a charitable conversation about that because you are clearly wrong and can be proven wrong using the Scriptures alone.

Ok.Lets clear up the myth that the first time Jesus will be seen is coming on the clouds.The Scriptures clearly show that He will be born as a baby again ,grow up become a man start preaching and then die and THEN come on the clouds.
Secondly the Scriptures clearly show that tribulation is 3.5 years not 7 and that the abomination that causes desolation is Jesus not satan.
The problem is no-one will read the Holy Scriptures in Greek or Hebrew and argue about them based on the bad english translations.

 

[elvisman]

Ok.Lets clear up the myth that the first time Jesus will be seen is coming on the clouds.The Scriptures clearly show that He will be born as a baby again ,grow up become a man start preaching and then die and THEN come on the clouds.
Secondly the Scriptures clearly show that tribulation is 3.5 years not 7 and that the abomination that causes desolation is Jesus not satan.
The problem is no-one will read the Holy Scriptures in Greek or Hebrew and argue about them based on the bad english translations.

ALL easily debunked by the Scriptures.

**As I indicated before, the way things work around here is that we need to stick to the topic at hand. If you want to start new threads based on your bizarre claims - I will be more than happy to engage you. However, we cannot derail this thread simply because you have an axe to grind with the Church…

 

[Thesealsareope]

As John pointed out - the Transfiguration CLEARLY proves you wrong.

I would also add that Heb. 12:1 tells us that “we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”** and that we are to live accordingly. A witness is somebody who sees and hears things (Acts 1:8, 2:32) – otherwise they are
not witnesses. Revelation 5:8 shows the Elders in heaven bringing our prayers before God.

Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily into heaven. Are they dead?

You do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God .Elijah was never taken to Heaven and the Scriptures in Hebrew do not say that He was.Whilever you read the Scriptures in English and refuse to read in the original languages you will miss what was said.

 

[Thesealsareope]

ALL easily debunked by the Scriptures.

**As I indicated before, the way things work around here is that we need to *stick ***to the topic at hand. If you want to start new threads based on your bizarre claims - I will be more than happy to engage you. However, we cannot derail this thread simply because you have an axe to grind with the Church…

Debunk them then.They are crucial to this topic.If you cannot show what you claim you must stop the teaching of praying to Mary.
Debunk away.My claims are from the Scriptures and are not bizarre.
From the Scriptures I can prove everything I say but dogma stops people from understanding.

 

[elvisman]

Debunk them then.They are crucial to this topic.If you cannot show what you claim you must stop the teaching of praying to Mary.
Debunk away.My claims are from the Scriptures and are not bizarre.
From the Scriptures I can prove everything I say but dogma stops people from understanding.

STICK to the topic. I’m only telling you this because if you persist in breaking the rules - the moderators will throw you off this forum.
**Wanna debate about THIS topic? LET’S. **

I have to go to dinner now. I will talk to you tomorrow (maybe later on tonight).**

 

[Thesealsareope]

STICK to the topic. I’m only telling you this because if you persist in breaking the rules - the moderators will throw you off this forum.
Wanna debate about THIS topic? LET’S.

I have to go to dinner now. I will talk to you tomorrow (maybe later on tonight).**

OK.My opinion on Mary is as the Holy Scriptures say.Her name will be blessed for all time.But when she died she ceased to think.Like all others she did not have an immortal soul she WAS a living soul.When she died she lay in the grave and will lie there until the day of resurrection when she will live an eternal life on Earth with all others who are saved just as the Bible teaches.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

.But when she died she ceased to think.Like all others she did not have an immortal soul she WAS a living soul.

*“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.” * Rev 5: 8-15

God bless you

 

[1364]

I believe that Mary was;
The Mother of Jesus and thus the Mother of God.
Immaculately Conceived and filled with Grace before Christ died for her sins.
Remained a Virgin after Christ’s birth (Perpetual Virginity)
Is in Heaven with Jesus (by Assumption or otherwise)
Is the Spiritual Mother of all Believers
— and thus deserves to be honored and venerated.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I believe that Mary was;
The Mother of Jesus and thus the Mother of God.
Immaculately Conceived and filled with Grace before Christ died for her sins.
Remained a Virgin after Christ’s birth (Perpetual Virginity)
Is in Heaven with Jesus (by Assumption or otherwise)
Is the Spiritual Mother of all Believers
— and thus deserves to be honored and venerated.

Hello 1234 and welcome to the forums. I know your profile says that you are Protestant but would you mind sharing what your denomination is? Only if your comfortable. I think I have an idea but with what you wrote I am curious.

How are these beliefs you have about Mary accepted with those you worship with?

God bless you

 

[Thesealsareope]

*“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.” * Rev 5: 8-15

God bless you

Yes I read The Book of Revelation also.So what is your point?

 

[Thesealsareope]

I believe that Mary was;
The Mother of Jesus and thus the Mother of God.
Immaculately Conceived and filled with Grace before Christ died for her sins.
Remained a Virgin after Christ’s birth (Perpetual Virginity)
Is in Heaven with Jesus (by Assumption or otherwise)
Is the Spiritual Mother of all Believers
— and thus deserves to be honored and venerated.

Could you please point me to the Scriptures that show she is a perpetual virgin (she had other children after Jesus) and when she was taken to heaven?

 

[Thesealsareope]

*“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.” * Rev 5: 8-15

God bless you

Isaiah 26:19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
**PSALM 6
**5For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
1 Thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
My question is simple.Why bother having a resurrection?If the people are in heaven then why have a resurrection and how do the people get back in the grave from Heaven?According to the myth that everyone goes to Heaven ,then just before the day of resurrection they must be put back in the grave.Why do that?why not just leave them in heaven?The truth is no-one goes to Heaven and therefore Mary is not in heaven and neither is the Pope etc.
These are a false teaching and a false Gospel.
While people may not want to hear that it is the truth.It is nice to think our loved ones are in heaven right now but the truth is they are in the grave waiting for the day of resurrection.
I was told today that Jesus is ONLY in the RC church.they cannot be serious with what they teach.I am not trying to destroy faith.I am trying to teach the truth because time is short.
So where is Mary?She is in the grave waiting for the day of resurrection.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

[My question is simple.Why bother having a resurrection?If the people are in heaven then why have a resurrection and how do the people get back in the grave from Heaven?

Strange, I didn’t offer any commentary only cited Scripture and you quote it asking why bother with the resurrection if there are people in heaven. You must have thought that this is what the verse from Rev was saying because I didn’t say anything of the sort with my own words. The only thing you had to go off of from me was the Scripture and it (and nothing I said) led to your above question. That’s very telling no?

God bless
[/quote]

 

[Peter_John]

Revelation
Chapter 121 1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3 3 Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, 4 with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. 4 Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. 5 Her child was caught up to God and his throne. 6 The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days. 6 7 7 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael 8 and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back, 8 but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, 9 who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser 10 of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time.” 13 When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. 15 The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. 16 But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. 17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. 13 (18) It took its position 14 on the sand of the sea.
usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation12.htm

This passage is a metaphor on many levels. on one it represents the Church, on another Mary as the symbol of the Church, it is about the persecutions in early Christian History.

 

[Thesealsareope]

Strange, I didn’t offer any commentary only cited Scripture and you quote it asking why bother with the resurrection if there are people in heaven. You must have thought that this is what the verse from Rev was saying because I didn’t say anything of the sort with my own words. The only thing you had to go off of from me was the Scripture and it (and nothing I said) led to your above question. That’s very telling no?

God bless

No I didnt think what you said.But no one will answer.The bulk of interpretations of Christianity by ALL denominations is false.
So i ask you.Why have a resurrection?