Any OCDS here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CARose
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Leo44:
For a group to get started in the right direction right from the start, following the rules is very important.

If it is Gods will your group get started, it will happen, if you have a vocation to OCDS, being a Franciscan is not a substitute. The charisms are totaly different.
Click to expand...
Leo, That is the problem, we received a book for the rules, and no one ever calls the lady in charge of our group back, or answers letters. That has been going on for 3 years. First it was O’Carm that did that, and next it is Discalced.

That pretty well has taken my desire away to be a Carmelite. Many years ago, I was interested in the Secular Franciscans, but was too busy at the time. There is a Secular Franciscan group here, and they want members and that is where I feel I am being called.

:blessyou:
Annie
 
I agree that there is no substitute for the correct vocation. Each of us is called to play our particular role in the Mystical Body of Christ, so that which is meant for me, may not be that to which you have been called.

However, know that Carmel, whether it’s O’Carm or Discalced, is run by human beings. As such, we are fallible. I cannot suggest I know why you have been unable to get the answers the leader of your group has sought. Has anyone else stepped up in an attempt to accomplish was he/she was unable to do? This may be the source of the roadblock.

Or it may simply be that the Holy Spirit desires that for the time being you learn about St. Francis and the Franciscan Spirituality. It may be that this is your true calling, or it may be a step on the path to Carmel or another Order all together. Be open to the movement of the Holy Spirit as you proceed in your discernment.

God Bless you in your journey,

CARose
 
40.png
AnnieD:
Our big problem was the fact that besides having 10 members, two of the members must be professed and we could find no professed Carmelites in our area. Did you have 2 professed Carmelites at your meetings, Redeemerslove?

:blessyou:
Annie
Click to expand...
Yes we do.🙂
 
40.png
Leo44:
For a group to get started in the right direction right from the start, following the rules is very important.

If it is Gods will your group get started, it will happen, if you have a vocation to OCDS, being a Franciscan is not a substitute. The charisms are totaly different.
Click to expand...
This is very true. Sometimes God is just testing your desire and commitment.🙂
 
What is the difference between practice of the secular Carmelite and the secular Francsican groups? I know they both pray for peace. For non-secular orders it is easier to differentiate, becuase the majority of Carmelite orders are contemplative. But as for secular life? Please enlighten me! Thanks.
 
Serendipity,

I don’t know if I know enough about the Franciscans to answer adequately, or even enough about the Discalced Carmelites for that matter, as I have only been participating for a year now, but I will try my humble best.

Each Order inherits their spirituality from their founder. Obviously for the Franciscans, that would be St. Francis and Peace is a very big component of his spirituality, so it would be seen in the Order. Simplicity and Love would also be major factors, along with Poverty, major themes with St. Francis.

The Discalced Carmelites recognize St. Therese of Avila as our Foundress. As such, an emphasis on Contemplative Prayer is fundamental for the Order. With OCDS, we are the only seculars, or so I’ve been told, who are members in full standing within the Order. At the same time we continue to be Laity, and are expected to bring our spirituality into the world.

It has been said that because of our need to continue with regular life of the world, being a spouse, a parent, an employee or employer and all the other roles we might be called to play in our lives, we have the most difficult role to play within the order.

The Charism of Carmel is Prayer, I’m still trying to get a better handle on the Apostolate, if there is a succinct definition of the apostolate, or if it varies based on the community to which you are attached.

There has been a history of allowing OCDS members to live in isolation from a community of other secular members, but this has recently been changing throughout the US, and perhaps world-wide. It has been recognized that maintaining your ties to the community of Carmel is a necessary part of the calling, so Isolate members are being asked to attach to a local community, study group or travel on a periodic basis to the closest community.

As for the specifics of what we are asked to do as members of the Order, I can’t speak to what Franciscans do, but I’d be interested if anyone else could share. I’d also be interested in knowing about Dominicans. I can’t even answer for O’Carm, Third Order.

OCDS - RequiredMorning Prayer (from the Liturgy of the Hours) approx 20 min

Evening Prayer ( ") approx 20
Daily Meditation 30 minutes minimum (for Western Province)
Monthly Meeting with Community - approx 3 hrs (+ travel time)
Monthly Study - Lives and Writings of various Sts and Rule of Life
Annual Community Retreat - 2 1/2 days

Strongly recommended (if your life allows for it)Daily Mass - 30 minutes (+ travel time)

Help at Mass - little if any extra time
Scripture Study - based on availability

I feel like I’m forgetting something, hopefully it means it’s so incorporated into my life, I don’t even see it any more. Perhaps it’s that we have a strong devotion to The Holy Trinity, Our Lady and her Rosary, St. Joseph, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Terese of Liseux, and all our Camelite Saints. We try to remember to surround ourselves with sacred items and to keep our affilitation somewhat hidden.

Many members still wear sandels, and living poor in spirit and striving for humility are core. Because I have such a desire to communicate, I must admit there are times when, while I know God desires that I participate in a Third Order, I fear that I may not have the quietness, the peace of spirit necessary for Carmel.

I hope this answers your question. If anyone out there sees errors in my understanding, please, I’m just getting started. I welcome correction.

CARose
 
Thanks for your detailed answer CARose. I know that each order ahs differenct founders, but I was curious to learn how the Carmelite secular orders differ from the other tertiary groups, because much of the contemplative life that forms the Carmelites identity in the covent seems to be difficult to replicate in a secular environment. I also knew that the formation process for Carmelites seemed to be longer than for other secular communities. But it seems that secualr commnities have less room for individualized identity, since much of the time is spent in the world doing different jobs, often unrelated to your communities.

I spent much time with a Carmelite community this past summer, while I was closing my grandmother’s house. She died about a year agop, and while alive, often visited the monastery. It is only this summer that I learned about third orders, but there are no Carmelite communities near me.
 
Where do you live? There may be a study group starting to form, or there may be Professed Members who have moved to your area who are seeking to start a study group. If you feel drawn to Carmel, you may want to explore it as a possibility.

I’m sorry if I overwhelmed you with too much info in my previous reply.

CARose
 
40.png
serendipity:
Thanks for your detailed answer CARose. I know that each order ahs differenct founders, but I was curious to learn how the Carmelite secular orders differ from the other tertiary groups, because much of the contemplative life that forms the Carmelites identity in the covent seems to be difficult to replicate in a secular environment. I also knew that the formation process for Carmelites seemed to be longer than for other secular communities. But it seems that secualr commnities have less room for individualized identity, since much of the time is spent in the world doing different jobs, often unrelated to your communities.

I spent much time with a Carmelite community this past summer, while I was closing my grandmother’s house. She died about a year agop, and while alive, often visited the monastery. It is only this summer that I learned about third orders, but there are no Carmelite communities near me.
Click to expand...
Actually it is quite easy to be a Carmelite in society, being in a community one has distractions, work etc. so their spiritual life is full of struggels as well. They do have the advantage of being around like minded souls 24-7 and a very structured life. But we arn’t called to that we are called by God to be Seculars and He will give us the grace to succeed. If you truley have a vocation to the Secular Carmelites that is God’s plan for YOUR SALVATION. This needs to be examined with great care and much prayer, it’s not like joining a club, it is GOD’s plan.l
 
40.png
tee_eff_em:
Not a Carmelite*, but discalced in the summer time (often in the winter time too 😛 )

(* Secular Franciscan, though)
Click to expand...
This is cute. Same here. No Carmelite either, but I love to walk around the house barefooted.
 
Quite true and well said Leo.

Not everyone is called to Carmel, we each are called to our particular place, our own function in the Body of Christ. If all were called to be eyes, how would we hear, if all were called to be the heart, what would the heart serve with it’s beat.

Serendipidy,

When I shared the differences of the founders, I was in fact sharing that the orders differ as a direct result of their founders. The Order is infused with the Charism of the Founder, that spirituality lives on through those who subsequently become members of the Order.

I honestly don’t know if it’s a matter of the person with certain charisms being drawn to the order that lives that charism well, or if once one begins to realize their calling to a specific order the charisms begin to exhibit, but members of an order share to a certain degree, the charisms of the founder. And within an order there are a range of charisms expressed such that all the talents necessary for the success of their situation are fulfilled. God’s great plan of salvation is far too complex for a mere mortal like me to know the full depths of the hows and whys, but it sure is beautiful to see as it unfolds.

I can’t give a full treatise on the differences of the various Tertiary Orders because I’ve only known that they exist for about 1 1/2 yrs, and my explorations led me fairly quickly to Carmel.

I don’t know what your personal experiences were when you were at the Carmel convent that led you to be curious about Tertiaries in general and OCDS specifically, but if you felt drawn, I suggest you explore it further, in person, with someone who can advise you. I’m certainly not the kind of expert you would need.

As Leo has pointed out, joining a Third Order is making a commitment to God regarding how you intend to conduct your life. It is not something that is to be taken lightly. I’ve outlined the numerous things we do privately on a daily basis, which are designed to assist us in establishing and maintaining a contemplative nature, even as we live “in the world”. We go to meetings, we study about the spirituality of the Order and learn to apply it to our lives.

I have found, through my extremely brief exploration into the other orders I had on my short list, that you will know when you are where you belong. At the same time, I have been advised that God may have us make a quick stop in one Order on the way to our ultimate Home.

You’ll know you have found the right place when you feel completely at home, at peace in a special way. This is not the same as saying, if you lose this “feeling” of peace you no longer belong, anymore than one would leave a marriage when the bloom is off. But at the beginning at least, you should feel like this is where you belong in the world.

God Bless, and peace be with you,

CARose
 
Just started formation. Please pray for me that I continue to seek God’s will in everything.
 
New on this forum, I’ve been a definitively professed Discalced Carmelite Secular since 1998.

Great poll…
as long as folks don’t think you mean
“Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder Sufferers”… 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top