Any opinions on these books from my son's Catholic high school English class?

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StephenBales said:
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benjamin1973:
This will be found much more in Dickens or Shakespeare than in Harry Potter
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Ohhhhhhh please steer your kid away from Harry Potter, if only so they won’t be sucked into a fan club around mediocrity! It won’t turn them into an evil, spell casting atheist. That’s a silly claim. But it also won’t prepare them well for when they encounter genuinely good, quality writing.
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I smell pretention. Just a whiff. I caught it a couple of posts ago and…there it is again. Anyone else smell it?

Now Harry Potter may not be high art or great literature but if you think they are not extremely well written then you don’t know good writing from a box of rocks. Maybe you should read King’s book ‘On Writing’ rather than his tweets so you’d have a better grasp of the difference between mediocre, good and great.

Perhaps you can get one of your parents to blank out the swear words so your sensibilities are not offended.
 
“English” class and “literature” class are not the same thing, in my opinion.

In an English class, I’d want the literature to be exemplary of more than good story-telling. I’d want students who read it to imprint grammatical patterns, refined use of vocabulary, and so on.

My daughter has read all the Harry Potter books, and I’ve read a couple of them. They were enjoyable enough-- certainly, I got my money’s worth with regard to entertainment. However, I’d argue there are equally enjoyable novels with better wordsmithing.

As for King-- I wouldn’t use him as an example of excellent grammatical form, either. I really do think it’s important for children to be exposed to books written earlier: The Wizard of Oz, perhaps, or even some Dickens.
 
In defence of Harry Potter as a literature study it has some lovely uses of language akin to Roald Dahl. They’re simple uses of quirky puns but effective and there’s a skill to that.
 
benjamin1973 said:
I really do think it’s important for children to be exposed to books written earlier: The Wizard of Oz , perhaps, or even some Dickens.
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I thought Hawthorne was a good author to study in school, a little bit about protestant, puritan guilt. The Jewish man who was our English teacher in public school used Hawthorne to teach a mostly Catholic class about puritanical double predestination and the motivations of Dimmesdale and Prynne.
 
DS had a high school class like that. The teacher was fixated on “To Kill A Mockingbird” and taught it for an entire semester. The kids had to pick up another English credit because that one ended up null and void.
 
It helps timid readers, those raised in non-reading households, etc. that big books are readable.
 
Paul71 said:
If anyone has read any of the other books on the list, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on those books as well, especially in terms of whether you would consider them appropriate or worthwhile for high school reading. Thanks again.
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I’ve read all of these books. They are all well-written and provide valuable learning opportunities.

How old is your son? If he is a 15 year old, I might share your concern about The Bean Trees, depending on his personal level of maturity. On the other hand, if he is over 16 or a reasonably mature 15, I would say that he should be capable of digesting anything he would encounter in these books, and that a thoughtful, informed discussion of the topics they raise will help prepare him to better dissect and understand information that comes to him throughout his daily life.

As an aside, you mention your love of classical literature. Classical literature frequently deals with very difficult and explicit subjects - The Handmaid’s Tale and Tess of the D’Urbervilles come immediately to mind. I read both of those books in grade 9 and was not harmed in the slightest. In fact, a thorough reading of The Handmaid’s Tale helped cement my belief in the correctness of church teaching on love, marriage, and sex, as it seemed to illustrate the danger of treating people like sexual objects (not a position fans of the TV show are fond of, believe me).

However, I also recognize that for the average reader, neither of those books is especially accessible. The contemporary books provided here seem, to me, to be an opportunity to introduce readers to many of those valuable themes in a way that is interesting and thought-provoking.
 
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EnglishTeacher said:
On the other hand, the best way is to instill in kids a love of reading early on in life and direct them to many of the great books now and then. If you can do that, they will often read many of the classics on their own. After all, there are only so many works of literature that any course can fit in, anyway.
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And in fact, I encouraged my son to read Oliver Twist when he was in 8th grade, as an optional reading assignment, where he could choose the book. My son found the book to be difficult to read and slow at first, but by the time he finished it, he said he was very glad he read it. He had to persevere to get past the differences in language usage from what he is accustomed to, as well as the fact that the plot advances slowly in the beginning, but he found it very rewarding by the time he finished it.
 
That’s great; keep it up! 🙂 He must be rather advanced in reading comprehension skills compared to the average 8th grader.
 
I’m sure you didn’t mean this, but it sounds like you would prefer your 1st grade son to read Dickens rather than Captain Underpants?

It’s important to respect a child’s reading level and maturity level. I was an advanced reader, and when I was in 5th grade, the wonderful movie/musical “Oliver” was in the theaters. I checked out Oliver Twist from our school library, but couldn’t make any sense out of it. Think about it–I had little knowledge of England other than the Beatles, Twiggy, and Barnabas Collins! I didn’t know much about economics, history, etc. even of my own country, let alone England!

So I gave up on Oliver Twist. I did read A Christmas Carol and have read it annually ever since (I’m now 61), and I can quote many passages from memory. The more I learned about English history, the more Dickens’ works made sense to me.

But I was in 5th grade (according to the Iowa Basic Skills tests back then, I was reading at a 12th grade level)! Your son is in 1st grade.

Captain Underpants is age-appropriate and will help him build the skills and understanding he needs to be able to read, comprehend, and enjoy more advanced books down the road.

When my daughters were babies, I went to our local library and the excellent librarian gave me a list of all the books that children should read at each different age. Yes, there were books listed for 6 months and under, 1 year, 2 years, etc. all the way through high school.

I took that list and started working on it. My older daughter and I made twice-weekly trips to the library, once for story-time (done well by another great librarian), and once to return the two dozen books that we had read during the week and check out two dozen more!

By the time she was in kindergarten, she was reading well enough to read a narration for a class play, and she could read the words in the hymnals in our church.

Today that busy daughter lives in the Big City and works very hard in multiple jobs in her field. But she still finds time to read a book a week.

Same for second daughter.

I highly recommend that parents ask at their local library and start on that list! 🙂
 
There are many teenagers who don’t possess the reading skills that you obviously do.

Some teens were raised in homes where English wasn’t their regular language, or where the parents did not place any value on reading (or may have even made fun of their children for wasting time reading).

Some children have physiological issues (poor vision, dyslexia, certain brain disorders), that delayed their reading in grade school, and they’re still trying to catch up with people like you. Many adults still have physiological issues that make reading difficult for them.

Some children grew up in one-parent homes and spent much of those early formative years in situations where they did not receive the kind of upbringing that prepared them to be good readers.

Some children grew up in poverty, and didn’t have books or access to books.

And some children were more inclined to be active than sedentary, and spent much of their childhood playing outdoors, developing athletic prowess, and if they were born into privilege, were trained from a young age in one or more sports.

People who are not good readers will not benefit by being forced to read “difficult” books. It is better to read something less academic and comprehend or even enjoy it, rather than struggling through an advanced book that they neither understand or enjoy.

You are a fortunate young person to be able to read far beyond your years. I suggest that you consider volunteering for various literacy projects in your town or city. You will learn the truth of what I am saying here–that many people struggle to read even the simplest books, and many children need a lot of help just to be able to read these easy-readers. YOU could be the one to help them get to the same place you are!

But please be kind–labeling less advanced books as “dull” or "shallow,’ or “the scourge of modernity” isn’t necessary, and may really hurt someone who is very proud of having read an entire book and understanding it. Try to put your self in their place and see the books through their eyes. At the same time, try to impart to them a hunger for the kind of deep, advanced books that you read and enjoy.

Go for it! You’re so needed by so many people!
 
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As the parent of a young adult, my strategy when I was unfamiliar with the books on her reading list was to read them myself and decide. I don’t recall ever asking for her to be excused from a reading assignment. I found instead that it was quite valuable to read the books together and discuss them together so that she got our moral direction, as well as her teacher’s literary direction.
 
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We read Hawthorne and also Billy Budd and Thornton Wilder. I devoured Shakespeare, in class and on my own.
Where I really caught fire with great literature was early in college. Homer, Flaubert, Bronte, more Shakespeare, Eliot…I had a very passionate English Literature instructor.
On that note, Yale prof Giuseppe Mazzotta’s Dante in Translation course was videotaped and is freely available on YouTube and Yales open University site. It’s wonderful, and complements a grad theology course on Dante that I took at Holy Apostles.
 
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Captain Underpants is full of potty language. A lot of teachers, parents, and school librarians are just fine with that. I find it rather cynical to think that kids won’t read unless there’s gross content.
 
I find it profoundly disturbing, actually, when 40-something year old adults write erotic novels that are marketed to young teens under the guise of “Young Adult Fiction.” You are very discerning.
I do recommend a book called “Okay for Now” that we read in the MFA course I mentioned. The author’s name escapes me, but it’s a winner, and very age appropriate. Enjoyed it.
 
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Bradskii said:
I smell pretention. Just a whiff. I caught it a couple of posts ago and…there it is again. Anyone else smell it?
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I do apologize if it’s there. Well, not if, it is there. Please forgive me. That is very much a possibility with me if the discussion is reading. I am a pretty good reader, but only because my parents exposed me to the material I mentioned a couple posts ago! And when my father shared Harry Potter with me, I was into it for far too long, and I ignored better books that, I would still have struggled to read, but I could have made it through, and I would’ve gotten better.
I believe it was Jean Piaget, the child psychologist, who coined the zone of proximal development. It’s basically a level of difficulty above where the child is now, but not so high that they don’t understand what they’re reading. This is where my parents kept me, and it’s why I’m a good reader now. I really am sorry if I sounded pretentious, I didn’t mean to be.
Bradskii said:
so you’d have a better grasp of the difference between mediocre, good and great.
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I’d only suggest that there’s much out there that is far better than King or J.K. Rowling. You’re signing your child up for a Great Books course, after all! 😀
Bradskii said:
Perhaps you can get one of your parents to blank out the swear words so your sensibilities are not offended.
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A-ha-ha. Very funny. I read The Dome and several other works of his. I don’t have much problem with profanity, when it’s useful. But he uses it when it’s not.
Dean Koontz is a decent substitute! He has some exciting stories, and doesn’t use profane language nearly so often as King. Let’s not pretend that’s not a good thing if we can find it, eh? 😉
 
I agree about Stephen King completely. He has some great plot ideas, but his dialog is often laughably unrealistic, particularly when the characters are children. And yes, gratuitous profanity.
Your attraction to classics is praiseworthy! As a writer, it is the great works that have given me the foundation. I strongly encourage all young writers to read voraciously but in particular to read the classics, and to read history, mythology, and especially, of course, the Bible.
 
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Mi_Rose said:
I read every book my children brought into the house. That way we could discuss them.
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Wow! I’m impressed that you can keep up with that. My kids are such voracious readers that I lost track of what they were reading ages ago. That and “Memoirs of the Second World War” simply does not fascinate me.

We do talk about what they read, however. I asked questions and they come to me with at least some things that trouble them. Once they’re teenagers, I I think that’s a pretty good place to be.
 
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