Any Quakers online ?

[Student09]

One more quick thing…I won’t know the whole truth on this side of heaven. But…if I do make it over there I will be shocked to find out that anyone other than God could say the words George Fox heard. In fact I think no other could have said such a beautiful thing. But…as with any revelation…it is what we do about it that decides what direction it shall take in our lives. I think God said it and Fox responded…and I can’t judge.

Yeah, I think it’s important to remember that George Fox did NOT leave the Catholic Church in order to start the Quakers. He left Calvinist Protestantism in order to start the Quakers. He was reacting against Protestantism, not Catholicism. He seems to have had little contact with Roman Catholics in his life and to have known only the anti-Catholic propaganda from his upbringing (they worship idols, etc), which is not too surprising since England was heavily anti-Catholic at the time. We really can’t know what Fox would have done had he had a real knowledge of what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[sweetprincess_0]

Is it true, that Quakers dress, like the Amish?

 

[jewells17]

Is it true, that Quakers dress, like the Amish?

Nope…

 

[Abba]

One more quick thing…I won’t know the whole truth on this side of heaven. But…if I do make it over there I will be shocked to find out that anyone other than God could say the words George Fox heard. In fact I think no other could have said such a beautiful thing. But…as with any revelation…it is what we do about it that decides what direction it shall take in our lives. I think God said it and Fox responded…and I can’t judge.

Hello jewells17,

I understand that we are not to judge souls but we can judge actions and ideas. Matthew 7:1 is not a license for moral relativism. Here a nice explanation: bluewavecanada.blogspot.com/2009/04/judge-not-lest-ye-be-judged-real.html

Regarding private revelations if it is not according to scripture and contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church it is false. The Catholic church has the deposit of faith and was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ not man. Here is an excellent, brief and clear presentation by Pope Benedict XVI on this authority of the Church and the interpretation of scripture. I highly recommend that you read it: bluewavecanada.blogspot.com/2009/04/judge-not-lest-ye-be-judged-real.html

We are called to test the spirit and have been warned about false prophets who will mislead. The banner of the Quakers seems to be the words of the voice George Fox heard one day: “there is only one, Christ Jesus who can speak to thy condition” At first glance like the rest of Quaker theology which is disguised in christian terminoloy, these words seem harmless but what are they really saying? They are saying no to the priesthood, no to the sacraments, no to many things Jesus taught. And now; does it seem christian? Does it look all so harmless and even holy? Are these words ones Our Lord Jesus would say? I don’t think so.

May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and May Our Blessed Mother Mary protect you and guide you to her son,

Abba

P.s.

"To the Catholic the distinction of Church and sect presents no difficulty. For him, any Christian denomination which has set itself up independently of his own Church is a sect. According to Catholic teaching any Christians who, banded together refuse to accept the entire doctrine or to acknowledge the supreme authority of the Catholic Church, constitute merely a religious party under human unauthorized leadership. The Catholic Church alone is that universal society instituted by Jesus Christ which has a rightful claim to the allegiance of all men, although in fact, this allegiance is withheld by many because of ignorance and the abuse of free-will. She is the sole custodian of the complete teaching of Jesus Christ which must be accepted in its entirety by all mankind. Her members do not constitute a sect nor will they consent to be known as such, because they do not belong to a party called into existence by a human leader, or to a school of thought sworn to the dictates of a mortal master. They form part of a Church which embraces all space and in a certain sense both time and eternity, since it is militant, suffering, and triumphant. This claim that the Catholic religion is the only genuine form of Christianity may startle some by its exclusiveness. But the truth is necessarily exclusive; it must exclude error just as necessarily as light is incompatible with darkness. As all non-Catholic denominations reject some truth or truths taught by Christ, or repudiate the authority instituted by him in his Church, they have in some essential point sacrificed his doctrine to human learning or his authority to self-constituted leadership. That the Church should refuse to acknowledge such religious societies as organizations, like herself, of Divine origin and authority is the only logical course open to her. No fair-minded person will be offended at this if it be remembered that faithfulness to its Divine mission enforces this uncompromising attitude on the ecclesiastical authority. It is but a practical assertion of the principle that Divinely revealed truth cannot and must not be sacrificed to human objection and speculation. But while the Church condemns the errors of non-Catholics, she teaches the practice of justice and charity towards their persons, repudiates the use of violence and compulsion to effect their conversion and is ever ready to welcome back into the fold persons who have strayed from the path of truth. "http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13674a.htm

 

[Publisher]

Is it true, that Quakers dress, like the Amish?

There is a group of “Conservative Friends” in the east and mid-west that seek to revive the “plain dress” and use the “plain speech” when in Meeting or when speaking to other Friends and family.

Most Friends however wear very conventional clothing…simple…but conventional, unless of course one is going to a very fromal dinner or engagement.

Many older Friends will use “plain language” when speaking to close personal Friends and family.

 

[Publisher]

And anytime someone advises you against doing a prayer or devotion because it is only an empty ritual…you need to try it for yourself and judge it by it’s fruits. Jesus said to stay away from VAIN repetition…meaningless repetition. Find out for yourself and by all means pray with your heart…not in a meaningless, vain way.

Agreed,

Friends are not against devotion or ritual if it has meaning for you…if it brings you closer to God…if it instills within you a sense of holiness…if by practicing the devotion and performing the rituals they then impact your “outward life”. The key is in your phrase ‘vain repitition’…if by simply saying the words or going through the gestures somehow bestows “grace”…that is what Friends have sought to convey.

A real and inward transformation can occur without ritual expression of the Divine Truths.

 

[Abba]

Friends are not against devotion or ritual if it has meaning for you…if it brings you closer to God…if it instills within you a sense of holiness…if by practicing the devotion and performing the rituals they then impact your “outward life”. The key is in your phrase ‘vain repitition’…if by simply saying the words or going through the gestures somehow bestows “grace”…that is what Friends have sought to convey.

Publisher,

Please don’t expect an exodus of pious Catholics who pray the rosary everyday to transfer to the Quakers just because you are writing that they can take their rosaries with them. But, perhaps, you may want to pray the rosary everyday for a year and promote it at your Meetings. Let me know if you do, so that I can expect an exodus of Quakers to the Catholic Church.

A real and inward transformation can occur without ritual expression of the Divine Truths.

Why should anyone listen to you and not Jesus? This comment brings this thread right to the beginning. Jesus left the sacraments (Baptism, Eucharist, Ordination, etc…) why should I do away with them in my life because the Quakers say that it’s okay to do so? Who should I listen to? You or Jesus?

 

[Publisher]

Publisher,

Please don’t expect an exodus of pious Catholics who pray the rosary everyday to transfer to the Quakers just because you are writing that they can take their rosaries with them. But, perhaps, you may want to pray the rosary everyday for a year and promote it at your Meetings. Let me know if you do, so that I can expect an exodus of Quakers to the Catholic Church.

Why should anyone listen to you and not Jesus? This comment brings this thread right to the beginning. Jesus left the sacraments (Baptism, Eucharist, Ordination, etc…) why should I do away with them in my life because the Quakers say that it’s okay to do so? Who should I listen to? You or Jesus?

I have taken a “choki” to Meeting…but it distracted me from “Centering down”…during this particular Meeting my eye caught another Friend who was seeking to use a “mala”…we smiled at one another and discussed it’s use after Meeting…we had similar experiences not being able to “Center”. I now use the prayer rope for personal devotions at times.

Your second paragraph is exactly the Quaker message…Jesus the Light is the One that we should listen to…He alone is our True Guide and Teacher…and to your point…you shouldn’t simply because “the Quakers say so”…THAT IS THE POINT…see…we finally agree on a very “Quaker” point.…always…listen to Jesus…the Quaker message in three words…“listen to Jesus.”

 

[Student09]

I have taken a “choki” to Meeting…but it distracted me from “Centering down”…

Can you explain what you mean by “centering down”?

 

[Student09]

.the Quaker message in three words…“listen to Jesus.”

So if a Quaker listens to Jesus and Jesus tells them to burn a cross on a black person’s lawn … as Quakers, you approve? Because it was Jesus who told them to do that, right? They think it was Jesus; what is your justification for saying it wasn’t?

 

[Publisher]

Can you explain what you mean by “centering down”?

At the “rise of the Meeting” we are to “quiet” our hearts and minds to be receptive to the Voice of God and seek to become in tune with others in Meeting. No private conversations or whispers should be occuring as they may impact others…“Centering Down” is listening inwardly…to that “still small voice” and becoming receptive to the Light…to “enter into the sanctuary of the soul”.

 

[Publisher]

So if a Quaker listens to Jesus and Jesus tells them to burn a cross on a black person’s lawn … as Quakers, you approve? Because it was Jesus who told them to do that, right? They think it was Jesus; what is your justification for saying it wasn’t?

It is an unfortunate charicature fostered by those who do not know nor understand Friends to assume that Friends "believe and do what ever they want’…that charicature comes from outside of Friends…not within.

Each Friend is responsible in seeking the “mind and will of God”. We do this collectively as well as individually. When we need assistence understanding God’s will we seek “clearness”…Violence against my brother…verbal, physical or the manner of violence you decribe abive is against our beliefs and goes contrary to honoring “that of God” in our African American brothers and sisters. How can one “Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, and your neighbor as yourself” and do such things?

There is within the Society of Friends checks and balances of behavior…that which runs counter to honoring “that of God” in others is wrong…they wear the face of Christ.

 

[Student09]

It is an unfortunate charicature fostered by those who do not know nor understand Friends to assume that Friends "believe and do what ever they want’…that charicature comes from outside of Friends…not within.

Each Friend is responsible in seeking the “mind and will of God”. We do this collectively as well as individually. When we need assistence understanding God’s will we seek “clearness”…Violence against my brother…verbal, physical or the manner of violence you decribe abive is against our beliefs and goes contrary to honoring “that of God” in our African American brothers and sisters. How can one “Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, and your neighbor as yourself” and do such things?
.

I know that Quakers have an ethical code. Look, I spent a lot of time with them. It is because I know that such actions as I described are entirely against Friends’ beliefs that I brought it up.

What I am asking is this: what is the objective measure that you use to determine whether something you hear comes from Jesus or from yourself or from the devil? (Maybe you don’t believe in the devil but I sure think he was involved in the KKK, even if you don’t.) At any rate, how do you know it is from Jesus or from your own inclination? Scripture says that Satan sometimes appears as an angel of light. When you experience a leading, what do you use to determine whether it is from God or not?

You’ll say that you have a meeting about it to discern. But just because a lot of people are involved doesn’t automatically mean that they will accurately discern the will of God.

So you said, “Listen to Jesus.” I’m saying, “How do you know it’s Jesus you are listening to?”

 

[Publisher]

I know that Quakers have an ethical code. Look, I spent a lot of time with them. It is because I know that such actions as I described are entirely against Friends’ beliefs that I brought it up.

What I am asking is this: what is the objective measure that you use to determine whether something you hear comes from Jesus or from yourself or from the devil? (Maybe you don’t believe in the devil but I sure think he was involved in the KKK, even if you don’t.) At any rate, how do you know it is from Jesus or from your own inclination? Scripture says that Satan sometimes appears as an angel of light. When you experience a leading, what do you use to determine whether it is from God or not?

You’ll say that you have a meeting about it to discern. But just because a lot of people are involved doesn’t automatically mean that they will accurately discern the will of God.

So you said, “Listen to Jesus.” I’m saying, “How do you know it’s Jesus you are listening to?”

I believe this is the realm every religious group faces. Our “objective measure” is the nature and character of God as seen in Jesus of Nazareth. It is a “weighty thing” to discerne the will of God in our lives. Does this “leading” measure up to the God as revealed in Jesus of Nazareth? Does this “leading” reflect His character? What have others been led to understand about such actions? What is the consensus of the Meeting? What is the witness of scripture? “Is it pure and from God or is it of the flesh?”

I do not believe that the Catholic church has any more “authority” to assist me in determining the mind and will of God than the Meeting I attend. That may be your belief that the magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit to speak with authority…but I do not believe it has such authority. I would not divest myself of my God given responsibility to seek His leading and be led by a “magisterium”. They are no more infalible than I…even though they claim to be.

My actions and life will be measured by how closely I “live in the Light”…how deeply I 'mind the Light"…will there be failings? You bet…that is the awesome responsibility of being human and placing ourselves in the Hands of God…but we are in Good Hands.

 

[Ceil-1]

I find it hard to imagine why anyone would bother to meet formally just to meditate on whatever caught their fancy. I went through a period of time where God was more of an ethereal entity, rather than a person with thoughts, feelings, emotions, and, most of all, an personal interest in me. It was so…empty.

My heart is full, knowing the supreme being of the universe knows and cares for me. It is so liberating.

I just don’t see the point in a hodge-podge of people all doing their own thing. It seems to serve no purpose whatsoever. It’s really rather sad to think about.

 

[Abba]

I believe this is the realm every religious group faces. Our “objective measure” is the nature and character of God as seen in Jesus of Nazareth. It is a “weighty thing” to discerne the will of God in our lives. Does this “leading” measure up to the God as revealed in Jesus of Nazareth? Does this “leading” reflect His character? What have others been led to understand about such actions? What is the consensus of the Meeting? What is the witness of scripture? “Is it pure and from God or is it of the flesh?”

Hello Publisher,

Would it be correct to say that you (not the Quaker organization) believe that God exists and that God is the creator of Heaven and Earth - of ALL that is seen and unseen?

If so, can I go further and understand that you believe that God, the one only, is the God that is written about in the Bible?

Can I go, just a little bit further and understand that you believe that the Bible is Sacred Scripture because it was written under the guidance of - God?

If you understand these three things, then I would think that you would place the Sacred Scripture in it’s proper place. That is, it is like no other book and it is the most valuable book in our lives because it was written under the inspiration of - God and he tells us about himself and speaks to us and reveals himself to us. Would you agree? I highly recommend that you read the Bible and open you heart to God and put yourself aside for a little while and listen to what he is saying. It is not easy to follow God but once you receive the Grace to be illuminated in following Our Lord Jesus, the veil comes down and you see life for what it really is and recognize Jesus and yes, there will be temptations but you receive spiritual nourishment…etc…You can not find him really if the 'Self" is more important then he is. We need to put our worldly self aside and listen - not what I want to hear but, truly what he is saying. Otherwise, why bother?

I do not believe that the Catholic church has any more “authority” to assist me in determining the mind and will of God than the Meeting I attend. That may be your belief that the magisterium is guided by the Holy Spirit to speak with authority…but I do not believe it has such authority. I would not divest myself of my God given responsibility to seek His leading and be led by a “magisterium”. They are no more infalible than I…even though they claim to be.

I understand. This is something that you need to find out for yourself.

My actions and life will be measured by how closely I “live in the Light”…how deeply I 'mind the Light"…will there be failings? You bet…that is the awesome responsibility of being human and placing ourselves in the Hands of God…but we are in Good Hands.

The problem with this “Light” is that it was created. The "Elders’ including Lucretia (a Nantucket independent woman who liked the limelight and being a celebrity and vehemently objected to having minister in the Society of Friends as she enjoyed being an authoritative and independent woman as the women of Nantucket were reputed to be. She used her wealth and connections which she used well to obtain her objective. Women were not going to be allowed to be ministers so the best way to assure her limelight was to object to the whole minister things.) created their own God in their own image, a God that was in harmony with their desires and whims.

The problem is that God really does exists and we did not create him nor is he a figment of the human imagination. The fact of the matter is that there really is a God. Who is he? That’s what we all need to find out and ones we find him - it’s beautiful! God is not this concept of a Light and all this stuff, he is LOVE and loves each and everyone of us dearly and you can have a personal loving relationship with him.

That Light sounds quite spooky and weird and kind of reminds me of the Twilight Zone. On the other hand, Jesus, not the identity the Quakers created and placed the name of Jesus on, I mean the one the Apostles wrote about, the only Son of God, Begotten not made, One in being with the Father, God from God, Light from Light… for us men and for our salvation he came down from Heaven…, this Jesus - wants to have a personal relationship with you.

Peace,

Abba

 

[Abba]

I find it hard to imagine why anyone would bother to meet formally just to meditate on whatever caught their fancy. I went through a period of time where God was more of an ethereal entity, rather than a person with thoughts, feelings, emotions, and, most of all, an personal interest in me. It was so…empty.

My heart is full, knowing the supreme being of the universe knows and cares for me. It is so liberating.

I just don’t see the point in a hodge-podge of people all doing their own thing. It seems to serve no purpose whatsoever. It’s really rather sad to think about.

Hello Ceil-1,

We were posting at the same time and I just read your post!!! We said the same things with different words. I tend to be wordy.

Blessings,

Abba

 

[Ceil-1]

You said it well, though.

 

[Publisher]

For many Friends worship does seem to be a bunch of people just sitting and meditating…but it’s not “meditation”…it’s seeking to join with one another in the Living Silence and raise our hearts in worship to the Eternal God. The Light Within is Christ Himself, that of God in each of us seeking to make His way known.

Scripture points to the Source…but it is not the Source itself. The Hebrew and Christian Scriputes are first and foremost the sacred text we study collectively and individually. It is the text most of us base our personal devotional time upon. God does and can speak through other sources of inspiration.

Friends spirituality is based on our Communion with the Risen Christ, the Presence in our midst. It is He that we join with…He in us…“we have this Treasure in earthen vessels that the greatness of the power my be of Him and not of ourselves.”…we have been called “cracked pots” too.

I appreciate concern some of you have about my eternal welfare…but I can assure you with Paul I echo…“For I know Whom I have beleived and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.” I became a Friend because the words I read from George Fox “spoke to me” in such a profound way, my life has never been the same…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.”

 

[brb3]

For many Friends worship does seem to be a bunch of people just sitting and meditating…but it’s not “meditation”…it’s seeking to join with one another in the Living Silence and raise our hearts in worship to the Eternal God.

I became a Friend because the words I read from George Fox “spoke to me” in such a profound way, my life has never been the same…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.”

Publisher –

St. Paul taught us to imitate him, as he imitated Christ. How did Christ teach ? We don’t have to guess. We know, from scriptures. When he taught on Mount of Olives, or when he taught the 5000 that he broke small boy’s loaves & fishes for … it was a priestly leader teaching his flock. Later, Paul would likewise instruct his Church brethren.

We have vivid descriptions in the 1st & 2nd centuries of how the Church conducted it’s mass. Reading from scriptures, singing of song, prayer, sermon from the priest, celebration of the Eucharist, Baptism of new believers, healing of illness, taking up collection for the sick & elderly, taking home remaining Eucharist --to the sick, etc.

Why do Friends see need to forego what Christ taught his disciples ? Why ignore what Christ taught for his Church ?