Any Quakers online ?

[Publisher]

Publisher –

St. Paul taught us to imitate him, as he imitated Christ. How did Christ teach ? We don’t have to guess. We know, from scriptures. When he taught on Mount of Olives, or when he taught the 5000 that he broke small boy’s loaves & fishes for … it was a priestly leader teaching his flock. Later, Paul would likewise instruct his Church brethren.

We have vivid descriptions in the 1st & 2nd centuries of how the Church conducted it’s mass. Reading from scriptures, singing of song, prayer, sermon from the priest, celebration of the Eucharist, Baptism of new believers, healing of illness, taking up collection for the sick & elderly, taking home remaining Eucharist --to the sick, etc.

Why do Friends see need to forego what Christ taught his disciples ? Why ignore what Christ taught for his Church ?

We do not “forego what Christ taught his disciples”…nor “ignore what Christ taught for his church”…we simply do not accept your beliefs on the matter. We do use scripture…it points to the Source…it is not the Source itself…we do not base our beliefs on what the first Christians did…we understand how they worshipped…we understand that the early Christians conducted rituals and rites which they adopted from their Jewish forebearers…we seek to experience God in the same way they did…if rites and rituals work for you and you believe they are necessary, we’re ok with that…we seek to experience the Reality of what those rites and rituals point to…a living faith with direct experience with the Divine without the intermediary requirements of a mortal priest…we have a High Priest and Teacher present among us.

 

[Abba]

Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Luke 6:46

Hello Publisher,

Happy Easter!

Do you celebrate Easter?

Publisher, in the end, as Mother Theresa would say; it’s between you and God. What I suggest you do is to examine your conscience. Make sure that it is not the world that is stopping you from seeing the Truth or that you do not want to recognize it because of the pressure and changes it would mean in your life.

On Good Friday I went to my mother’s house for the traditional Good Friday Dominican dinner. One of the stories my mother shared brought you, Publisher, to my mind. She told us of a neighbor who lived right in front of her house when she was a young lady (this must have been back in the forties/fifties). This woman had converted at some point to the evangelical church and raised her seven children evangelical. When she was dying - she just wouldn’t die. Her agonizing was prolonged and she just continued to agonize and would not die. She finally spoke and said to go and get Father Flores (a well known Catholic priest who has gone down in history for his great contributions etc…). The woman’s children refused and one of them even said that if a Catholic priest ever entered the house that he would hit him with a bat. They all refused. But, the eldest spoke with authority and said that if that is mother’s wish then that is what is going to be done and that they would all behave. The eldest went to the parish with one of his brothers. Once notified of the request to see a priest from someone who was agonizing, Father Flores immediately left to attend to the lady. He received her confesion and anointed her with the oil. The priest had not reached the corner of the block after leaving when the lady died. My mother concluded her sharing by saying that similar to that she has witnessed many things that affirm her faith and that she would never leave the Catholic Church as she knows it holds the Truth. To whom shall we go when we know the Catholic Church teaches the TRUTH?

You see, the lady, deep in her soul, understood the truth of the Catholic Church. But, for many worldly reasons people leave the Catholic Church or stay away from the Catholic Church even though an examination of conscience reveals to them that they recognize that she teaches the Truth. But, it’s hard to follow God. Jesus can be very demanding but, the recompense is Glorious! If you did a serious examination of conscience, and you found that you really do not think that the organization you belong to is in the Truth and is seriously lacking; you will find it very difficult and challenging (if not impossible but every thing is possible with God) to leave. You have belong to that organizatio for thirty years and hold a position there - it would not be easy to leave and also to deal with the social changes etc…

Peace,

Abba

Malachi 1:6 "‘A son honors his father, and a servant his master. Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?’ says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name. But you say, ‘How have we despised Your name?’​

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter
1 Timothy:
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204&version=NIV

 

[Publisher]

Friend Abba,

I have examined my conscience and it is clear before God. If believeing “deep down in my heart” that I believe the Catholic church is the “true church” brings you peace, I think that is great…sometimes we must believe things such as this to insure a continuity in our lives.

I am at peace with God…I seek to walk in the Light in my very imperfect way.

As a Friend speaking the truth is very important…our word is our bond…so if I actually believed in the tenets of Catholicism, I would embrace them for Truth would demand nothing less…but I have found the simple message of Christ among us to teach His People Himself and there is One even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition more than adequate…He is all and in all.

I celebrate Easter each day…“Christ is risen daily in our hearts and lives”…everyday is an Easter day for Friends…not just one day a week or one day a year.

 

[brb3]

we do not base our beliefs on what the first Christians did…we understand how they worshipped…we understand that the early Christians conducted rituals and rites which they adopted from their Jewish forebearers…we seek to experience God in the same way they did…if rites and rituals work for you and you believe they are necessary, we’re ok with that…we seek to experience the Reality of what those rites and rituals point to…a living faith with direct experience with the Divine without the intermediary requirements of a mortal priest…

Publisher … please !! The Jewish Apostles didn’t ‘invent’ their Tradition and form of Worship. They got it from their Lord Jesus — 3 years at his side. Inspired & indwelled by H.S. … to guide them into all truth.

How do you have the gall to think you can ‘re-work’ Christ’s Church into your own image of it ? Do you know/understand more than our first Forebears who learned at feet of the Master ? Christ gave the Church the CROSS, BAPTISM, EUCHARIST, CONFIRMATION, CONFESSION, APOSTLES [12 PRIESTS OF JEWISH TRIBES], and gifts of healing, tongues, ability to raise the dead, pentecostal preaching, etc.

Are we to believe your ‘imaginations’ … or the Words/Teachings of Christ & his Church ?

As the WORD teaches “…choose this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods WHICH YOUR FATHERS SERVED, … or the gods of the Amorites, … but, for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”. … Joshua 24:15

 

[Publisher]

Publisher … please !! The Jewish Apostles didn’t ‘invent’ their Tradition and form of Worship. They got it from their Lord Jesus — 3 years at his side. Inspired & indwelled by H.S. … to guide them into all truth.

How do you have the gall to think you can ‘re-work’ Christ’s Church into your own image of it ? Do you know/understand more than our first Forebears who learned at feet of the Master ? Christ gave the Church the CROSS, BAPTISM, EUCHARIST, CONFIRMATION, CONFESSION, APOSTLES [12 PRIESTS OF JEWISH TRIBES], and gifts of healing, tongues, ability to raise the dead, pentecostal preaching, etc.

Are we to believe your ‘imaginations’ … or the Words/Teachings of Christ & his Church ?

As the WORD teaches “…choose this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods WHICH YOUR FATHERS SERVED, … or the gods of the Amorites, … but, for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”. … Joshua 24:15

I do not expect you to believe anything I tell you…I would point you to Christ and serve Him as he directs you to. If worshipping in the manner you do causes you to love more deeply…if your words are more compassionate by such worship…your heart more tender…your spirit more loving…your life more fulfilled and a witness to the Love of God in Christ Jesus…I commend you to your faith tradition…“Thee will say Christ saith this, and the apostles say this, but what canst thou say? Art thou a child of Light and hast thou walked in the Light, and what thou speakest is it inwardly from God?”

 

[daveordave]

I grew up in a fairly conservative, Mid-Western, Friends United Meeting Church. My impression, looking back, was that is was basically Wesleyan without sacraments. This isn’t too surprising since we weren’t too far from the former headquarters of the Wesleyan Church.

Although many of the “unprogrammed” Friends have gone a little theologically, um, unorthodox, I’ve heard some speculate that early Quakers, in many ways, had more in common with Medieval Catholic mystics than other Protestants. They would also argue that they were not anti-sacramental, but rather than they saw everything as a potential sacrament.

 

[Publisher]

I grew up in a fairly conservative, Mid-Western, Friends United Meeting Church. My impression, looking back, was that is was basically Wesleyan without sacraments. This isn’t too surprising since we weren’t too far from the former headquarters of the Wesleyan Church.

Although many of the “unprogrammed” Friends have gone a little theologically, um, unorthodox, I’ve heard some speculate that early Quakers, in many ways, had more in common with Medieval Catholic mystics than other Protestants. They would also argue that they were not anti-sacramental, but rather than they saw everything as a potential sacrament.

The Meeting I attend is fairly christocentric…but we do have a wide range of “conservative” to “liberal” in the Meeting. We sometimes join with a neighboring Friends Church for collective worship…when my Meeting hosts we have “un-programmed” meeting for worship…when the Evangelical Friends host it is very similar to a Weslyan or Nazarene worship service with singing, sermons, more formal prayers and a time of “Silent Worship” lasting only about 10-15 minutes instead of the hour or more in “un-programmed” Meeting.

Many Friends have drawn the same conclusion as you have in regard to “unprogrammed” Friends, Catholic worship centers on the Real Presence in the eucharist…Friends center on the Real Presence in our midst where we meet the Eternal directly…I don’t think most conservative Catholics would see the similarity…but more “ecumenical Catholics” also have drawn the similarity of our two groups…we are not “anti-sacramental”, we see each moment and act “pregnant” with the opportunity of “sacramental significance”.

 

[Daedelus76]

Publisher;6460111:

It would be like approaching Jesus and telling him; o.k. well, you have have a part in MY spiritual development but only as much as I say as I am the intelligent, rational being that is in CONTROL of my personal salvation. So, just stay put. This empowering of the self attracted many a wealthy/narcists Protestant to the Quakers.

Peace,

Abba

I considered Quakers for a while. Orthodox Quakers in the US are not a clear majority, however. I talked to a Quaker one time with some questions, he is conservative, and he blamed humanism and individualism more than Quakerism itself.

I have attended a few unprogrammed Friends meetings. While I felt it was interesting (my experience was it was sort of like a long meditation), I think the complete absence of rituals probably accounts for the limited appeal of this religoin. Eastern Christianity has the inward, mystical focus too, yet it managed to retain alot of sacramentality and religious symbolism. At the time that the Quakers got started, in the UK, it was dominated by Puritans in the CoE who de-emphasized religious experience in favor of dogmatism and authoritarianism.

 

[Publisher]

Many people have difficulty seeing the “Living Silence” as any more than a “long meditation”…but it is much much more than “meditating”…it is entering into direct experience with the Eternal God in our midst…joining with one another in the Living Silence where God speaks to each of us individually and collectively is an awesome experience. For me, when I attend other faith traditions for corporate worship…I always feel…“something is missing”…I feel like more a spectator of a “religious play” than a participant of Communion with the Eternal.

 

[brb3]

**

Silence where God speaks to each of us individually and collectively is an awesome experience. For me, when I attend other faith traditions for corporate worship…I always feel…“something is missing”…I feel like more a spectator of a “religious play” than a participant of Communion with the Eternal.**

I’m not sure I follow your depiction. You say you are ‘a participant in Communion with the Eternal’ … by sitting in silence with your Friends. You & Friends ‘experience’ God speaking to you individually/collectively.

Where in scriptures or early church history do you find documented support for your Church format ? Even the early desert mystics accepted the Catholic Church’s format as valid. Many left the desert solitude [or monasteries] to rejoin the formal Church … after periods of reflection, fasting, and purification/santification of their minds. The John the Baptist being OT exhibit A, and Paul the premier example in New Covenant times.

 

[Publisher]

I’m not sure I follow your depiction. You say you are ‘a participant in Communion with the Eternal’ … by sitting in silence with your Friends. You & Friends ‘experience’ God speaking to you individually/collectively.

Where in scriptures or early church history do you find documented support for your Church format ? Even the early desert mystics accepted the Catholic Church’s format as valid. Many left the desert solitude [or monasteries] to rejoin the formal Church … after periods of reflection, fasting, and purification/santification of their minds. The John the Baptist being OT exhibit A, and Paul the premier example in New Covenant times.

Probably the same place you find recorded in scripture for genuflecting, statues, priestly vestments, alters, silver or gold chalices, chants, etc…all the things which distinguish the Catholic church don’t necessarily have “documetation” in scripture of it taking place in Christian worship…you can’t even find “church building” mentioned in scripture…

No doubt you can point to the writings of those you have deemed ECF’s which agree with your mode of worship and beliefs to gain support for them…that’s your right to seek the Light through those means…we seek the Light and seek to listen to that “Still Small Voice” out of the Silence…and then respond accordingly through vocal ministry, prayer, singing or scripture reading.

Friends do not simply “sit in silence”…we wait upon the Lord to move among us and then we receive “verbal ministry” from one among us moved to offer it. Sometimes we are moved to sing…other times we are moved to read scripture and pray…it is out of the Silence God speaks to us…individually and collectively.

Some Friends are led to offer a “concern” and call those who wish to participate to prayer and fasting to have the “way opened” for a deeper understanding on how to minister to our neighbors…or respond to a need made known.

I realize it is a different way than what you are use to…different doesn’t mean “bad”…we live in the Present…not in the past…we live in a different world than those first disciples lived…Friends assemble for worship in “Meetinghouses” when there are enough of us…or meet in each others homes just like those first Christians who met in simple homes or caves or “upper rooms” to gather and worship the Lord…

If your mode of worship speaks to you and you meet God there…wonderful…we meet God in our mode of worship as well…not relying on “how it was done millenia ago”…but how God instructs us to meet TODAY.

 

[brb3]

Where in scriptures or early church history do you find documented support for your Church format ?

From your answer to the above question, I take it there is no support from historians or scriptures you can point to ? If you believe your church is a modern day ‘evolution’ from the first church … point out the various epochs and the worship transformations that occurred over the 2 millennium.

 

[Publisher]

From your answer to the above question, I take it there is no support from historians or scriptures you can point to ? If you believe your church is a modern day ‘evolution’ from the first church … point out the various epochs and the worship transformations that occurred over the 2 millennium.

No, I don’t believe it is a “modern day evolution” from the first church. The first believers way of worhip bears as much resemblance to the way Friends worship as it does to the way Catholics worship…plain and simple…Catholicism evolved over time and developed it’s way of worhip and liturgy…Friends do not use liturgy… except in a very loose way…some might “give a word of wisdom”…others may "offer prayer’…others offer a “spiritual song” and others may read scripture or offer vocal ministry as led by the Spirit.

I have no interest in “pointing out the various epochs and worship transformations that occured over the 2 millennium”…if your mode of worship speaks to your condition and in that mode of worship you find Christ…if your mode of worship brings you closer to Him…and causes you to be more gentle and loving in your life…and your days filled with the “joy of the Lord”…I have no issue with it…the mode of worship I use is directed by the Spirit of God in our midst…and it works for us…if yours works for you…rejoice in it as I rejoice in the Presence of the Lord among Friends…it is His Presence among us…Friend or Catholic that makes the difference…not who can dot the “i’s” and cross the “t’s” on documentation of worship style development…but if dotting “i’s” and crossing “t’s” is what brings you closer to the One who gave Himself for you…I will rejoice with you in experiencing His Presence by doing so.

I live in the Holy Present…in a world far different than those first people called Christians did…my mode of worship is different…but so is yours…Quaker worship developed out of an experiential transformation of Christ in our midst…it is based on our experience with the Eternal and it speaks to our deepest needs as He moves among us to minister to our lives and world…if you experience it in Catholic worship…bless the Lord and His Holy Name!

If you believe that Christians MUST worship in the way you do and there can be no deviation from what your church institution requires in worhip…I’m not sure how to answer your question as I have a different frame of reference than you do AND I do not accept the claims and authority of your religious institution over me…if you wish to be under their authority…I’m ok with that…what the Catholic church does is their business…I will do as God directs me and live according to His instructions…and what the Catholic church claims is what “God wants” really has no sway with me…

Each of us must serve and worship God as He directs and leads…my conscience is clear on that matter…as I’m sure is yours.

 

[brb3]

I have no interest in “pointing out the various epochs and worship transformations that occured over the 2 millennium”…

…I’m not sure how to answer your question as I have a different frame of reference than you do AND I do not accept the claims and authority of your religious institution over me

Each of us must serve and worship God as He directs and leads…my conscience is clear on that matter…as I’m sure is yours.

‘No interest’, ‘not sure how to answer question’ ?? In truth, you can’t answer it, apart from the 1500 years your forebears spent in the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches. Two Churches, closely joined in Christian heritage, for 1500 years. Now many 1000’s of new churches, not closely joined in beliefs, for last 500 years. As many churches, as men have consciences … everyone with CLARITY OF INSPIRATION.

Does this match with teaching of Christ … THERE WILL BE ONE FLOCK AND ONE SHEPHERD ?

John 10:14-16 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have OTHER SHEEP, that are not of THIS FOLD; I must BRING them also, and they WILL HEED MY VOICE. So there shall be ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD.”

Do you believe in ecumenism ? Are you & Friends the ‘other fold’ that will heed voice of Christ and unify with the primitive ‘apostolic’ CHURCH founded by Christ ?

 

[jewells17]

‘No interest’, ‘not sure how to answer question’ ?? In truth, you can’t answer it, apart from the 1500 years your forebears spent in the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches. Two Churches, closely joined in Christian heritage, for 1500 years. Now many 1000’s of new churches, not closely joined in beliefs, for last 500 years. As many churches, as men have consciences … everyone with CLARITY OF INSPIRATION.

Does this match with teaching of Christ … THERE WILL BE ONE FLOCK AND ONE SHEPHERD ?

John 10:14-16 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have OTHER SHEEP, that are not of THIS FOLD; I must BRING them also, and they WILL HEED MY VOICE. So there shall be ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD.”

Do you believe in ecumenism ? Are you & Friends the ‘other fold’ that will heed voice of Christ and unify with the primitive ‘apostolic’ CHURCH founded by Christ ?

Actions speak louder than words and if a Quaker feels so drawn to a Catholic thread to this degree…I think Publisher may be Catholic one day…God willing and the creek don’t rise!

 

[Publisher]

‘No interest’, ‘not sure how to answer question’ ?? In truth, you can’t answer it, apart from the 1500 years your forebears spent in the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches. Two Churches, closely joined in Christian heritage, for 1500 years. Now many 1000’s of new churches, not closely joined in beliefs, for last 500 years. As many churches, as men have consciences … everyone with CLARITY OF INSPIRATION.

Does this match with teaching of Christ … THERE WILL BE ONE FLOCK AND ONE SHEPHERD ?

John 10:14-16 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have OTHER SHEEP, that are not of THIS FOLD; I must BRING them also, and they WILL HEED MY VOICE. So there shall be ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD.”

Do you believe in ecumenism ? Are you & Friends the ‘other fold’ that will heed voice of Christ and unify with the primitive ‘apostolic’ CHURCH founded by Christ ?

There is One Church joined to Christ by His Holy Spirit…I do not believe the Catholic institutional church nor the Eastern Orthodox institutions ARE the One Church…just one of many making similar claims as every other man made institution…if you blieve in the claims of your religious institutions…I’m ok with it…I stand before God with a clear conscience in the matter. The longevity of any institution does not prove it’s claims…it’s simply “long lived”.

 

[Publisher]

Actions speak louder than words and if a Quaker feels so drawn to a Catholic thread to this degree…I think Publisher may be Catholic one day…God willing and the creek don’t rise!

Actions do speak louder than words…Friends are all about “action” verses “words”. This thread has done more to confirm to me the Truth as any other I’ve participated in…to all those of Catholic persuasion…thank you…I have been a Friend for over 30 years and I have not been more grateful to the Lord for bringing me into the Society of Friends than I am now.

Bless you…I hold all who have participated with me in seeking Truth in the Light…may we all walk in His grace and mercy as we seek Truth.

 

[jewells17]

Actions do speak louder than words…Friends are all about “action” verses “words”. This thread has done more to confirm to me the Truth as any other I’ve participated in…to all those of Catholic persuasion…thank you…I have been a Friend for over 30 years and I have not been more grateful to the Lord for bringing me into the Society of Friends than I am now.

Bless you…I hold all who have participated with me in seeking Truth in the Light…may we all walk in His grace and mercy as we seek Truth.

I know. I hear you. But it is obvious something is missing by how often you visit us. As you learn more about Catholicism…I think you will find what you are looking for and will feel complete in your soul. That happened to me when I converted from Quakerism to Catholicism. I am glad you are drawn to this thread…there is a reason the Spirit keeps leading you back to it. God bless you and peace be with you.

 

[Publisher]

I know. I hear you. But it is obvious something is missing by how often you visit us. As you learn more about Catholicism…I think you will find what you are looking for and will feel complete in your soul. That happened to me when I converted from Quakerism to Catholicism. I am glad you are drawn to this thread…there is a reason the Spirit keeps leading you back to it. God bless you and peace be with you.

LOL…I have found what I am looking for…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.” He is all an in all…He is the Completion.

I don’t know that the Spirit is leading me to a thread entitled “Any Quakers online?”…I think I’m responding to the questions asked. I joined Catholic Answers to better understand the faith traditions of others…and in doing so, I better understand my own.

I rejoice with you that you have found that which “speaks to thy condition” among Catholics…I have found that which “speaks to my condition” among Friends…but if it gives you comfort to believe I will eventually “convert”…I will not take that comfort from you…no matter how misplaced your belief is.

When I was in college, Arthur Roberts was teaching a class on Friends history and belief…he said in his not so long life…he was in his 60’s some 30 years ago…he had found that those who leave Friends in their early lives for another tradition…in their later years…they always return to that place of Living Silence among Friends…who knows…perhaps I’ll “see” you in Meeting one day again as we join across the miles in the Living Silence of Meeting as you return to that Center of your being.

May God bless you as well.

 

[jewells17]

LOL…I have found what I am looking for…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.” He is all an in all…He is the Completion.

I don’t know that the Spirit is leading me to a thread entitled “Any Quakers online?”…I think I’m responding to the questions asked. I joined Catholic Answers to better understand the faith traditions of others…and in doing so, I better understand my own.

I rejoice with you that you have found that which “speaks to thy condition” among Catholics…I have found that which “speaks to my condition” among Friends…but if it gives you comfort to believe I will eventually “convert”…I will not take that comfort from you…no matter how misplaced your belief is.

When I was in college, Arthur Roberts was teaching a class on Friends history and belief…he said in his not so long life…he was in his 60’s some 30 years ago…he had found that those who leave Friends in their early lives for another tradition…in their later years…they always return to that place of Living Silence among Friends…who knows…perhaps I’ll “see” you in Meeting one day again as we join across the miles in the Living Silence of Meeting as you return to that Center of your being.

May God bless you as well.

I left in my later years and after experiencing the difference between the silence in Quaker Meeting and the silence in an Adoration Chapel…it is almost beyond words. The best I can do to sum it up would be that the silence in Quaker Meeting is peaceful and the silence in an Adoration Chapel is hauntingly Holy and so very deep. I am glad to have had the chance to experience both…not many people have.