Any questions about Jewish religion, culture, or history?

[Verus_Israel]

Hello, Verus Israel, and welcome to CAF. http://bestsmileys.com/waving/5.gif
Yes, I do have a question, and would appreciate your thought on same. The question has three parts.
-When did Rabbinic Judaism begin?
-With the destruction of the second Temple,
could you please tell me what form worship
has taken, with no Temple?
-Since animal sacrifice was offered to God,
before the first Temple was built, why was
this practice not continued, after the destruction
of the second Temple?
Thank you for your kindness, in addressing my question[s.]
Kindest regards,
reen12

Thank you!

There are many ways to understand the origins of “rabbinic Judaism.” On one level, rabbinic Judaism originates with the seventy elders (constituting the first Jewish Supreme Court) in the time of Moses, as the title “ribbi” (“rabbi”) refers to a judge on that court. On another level, rabbinic Judaism originates in the time of the Sadduccees, who were the early opponents of scriptural interpretation in general and the established traditional interpretations in particular; on this level, “rabbinic Judaism” designates the more traditionalist camp within the people. On yet another level, rabbinic Judaism starts with Hillel ha-Zaqen (c. 100 BCE), who was the first to formally apply hermeneutic rules in the interpretation of the Tanakh. It should also be noted that the early rabbis were called “scribes” (Heb. “Soferim”) due to their role in transmitting the written text of the Tora (and the oral interpretations associated with it) from one generation to the next.

After the destruction of the second Temple, worship was transferred to the synagogue, where prayer - called “worship of the heart” in rabbinic literature - takes place. Interestingly, it is the synagogue, and not the Temple, that served as the model for the church and the mosque.

The sacrificial system was discontinued or held in abeyance (depending on how you see it) due to a biblical precept disallowing the sacrifice of animals outside of God’s designated precinct. In early times, this was the Tabernacle; once the first Temple was built, that replaced the Tabernacle as the site of sacrificial worship.

I can elaborate more if you like. I hope that answered your questions!

 

[Verus_Israel]

Good morning! My question is: Can you give me a list of Messianic prophecies recognized by Jews?

Generally speaking, Jews consider “messianic prophecies” to be a matter of personal interpretation and scriptural reading. There is no universally recognized or authoritative list of “messianic prophecies” within rabbinic literature or Jewish tradition in general.

Sorry!

 

[Verus_Israel]

Hello Versus Israel,
Welcome to the forum. You will soon be overwhelmed with questions if you don´t get around to answering them quick!
My question is concerning jewish belief in Heaven, Hell and the resurrection of the dead. I understand that in Jesus´ time there was not a consensus on these issues. Recently, talking about this with someone who had been brought up as an orthodox jew, he told me that jews don´t believe in Heaven in the sense that christians do. They believe that Heaven and Hell are on Earth. Is that correct?
What is the point of burying people if you don´t believe in the resurrection of the body? Please try to answer my questions. I´m not interested in what secularized “jews” believe, rather in what authentic, orthodox jews believe. Thank you.

Within Judaism, matters of belief (in Hebrew, “hovoth ha-levavoth”) are not prescribed or mandated. Every person is entitled and encouraged to gain an honest understanding of God and the universe according to his or her own mind and reason. The notion of an afterlife (along with various notions about “heaven and hell”) is therefore not prescribed as dogma or universally held among all Jews at all times. In fairness, Josephus does note that one of the points of contention between the Sadducees and the Pharisees was belief in the afterlife. Personally, I believe that heaven and hell are metaphors for how we experience the consequences of our actions.

Belief in a bodily resurrection is one endorsed in the rabbinic literature and is believed to be the greatest good that a person may experience as the result of his or her actions.

Thanks for your great questions!

 

[Verus_Israel]

My question is what does a gentile considering conversion to conservative Judaism have to do to convert if they were inclined to?
I will guess there is some kind of study process, and a radical lifestyle change. Could you give me a better idea?

According to the law as recorded in the rabbinic literature, in today’s day and age a gentile considering conversion must a) accept the discipline of the Tora’s precepts (in Hebrew this is referred to as “qabbalath 'ol malkhuth shamayim”) before a Jewish court, b) immerse in the Miqwa (a body of natural, running water), and c) undergo circumcision (if the gentile is of the male persuasion).

Study is something incumbent upon us all, Jew and gentile alike.

 

[Verus_Israel]

My sister in law is Jewish and is raising her children in the Reformed Jewish faith.

During Jewish holy days, would it be ok for me to send them cards - or do you think she’d think that were odd since I’m not Jewish and honestly know very little about their faith?

I think it would be wonderful if you would send them cards for the holidays. Friendship and positive communal and familial relationships are very important in Jewish culture.

 

[Verus_Israel]

you may have to wait for shabbot to end before versus Israel replies to posts.

Exactly…thank you, and my apologies for not responding sooner.

 

[Verus_Israel]

Have you personally felt discriminated against because you are Jewish? Or, have you felt that people are prejudiced against you because you are Jewish? (sort of the same question, I know )

Unfortunately, yes, I have. Like all bigotry, however, I believe that those incidents were related to xenophobia, cultural misunderstanding, and personal anguish experienced on the part of the discriminators.

 

[Verus_Israel]

There are many Hassidic sects! However, I believe that a good place to start is Moshe Idel’s Hasidism: Between Ecstasy and Magic. I hope that helps!

 

[Sam_777]

Welcome “Verus Israel” to CAF ,

Its good to see someone resident in Israel posting at CAF, I hope you will be a permanent poster here, however, here are my questions:

1. Is Israel a secular country or a Jewish one, I mean can someone live in a city that’s strictly following the Jewish law?
2. Are all foods served in Israel conform to the Jewish dietary laws.
3. Do you think it is logic to assume that The Most High/Yahweh made covenant with Ishmael after reading (Genesis 17:17-22).
4. Why do you think the Jews in early days in Arabian Peninsula didn’t accept the Islamic prophet Muhammed, is there anything written about him outside the Bible from those early days that described him?
5. After all those years, what modern Jews say about Islam?
6. Assuming that you have to share your apartment with someone, and there are only two persons, one Christian and one Muslim, then whom would you choose? (you don’t have to answer this question if you find it embarrassing).

 

[Spirithound]

Round 2! Ding ding ding!

Thanks for your response, definitely not what I was expecting though
So, my next set of questions: What is a messiah? Would you say any figures in the Tanakh are messiahs? Were the Israelites waiting for “The Messiah” ?

PS, Totally forgot that I sent my first message during Shabot Another poster pointed it out, and I was like…yup…i shoulda thought of that

 

[Verus_Israel]

Welcome "Verus Israel" to CAF ,
Its good to see someone resident in Israel posting at CAF, I hope you will be a permanent poster here, however, here are my questions:

1. Is Israel a secular country or a Jewish one, I mean can someone live in a city that’s strictly following the Jewish law?
2. Are all foods served in Israel conform to the Jewish dietary laws.
3. Do you think it is logic to assume that The Most High/Yahweh made covenant with Ishmael after reading (Genesis 17:17-22).
4. Why do you think the Jews in early days in Arabian Peninsula didn’t accept the Islamic prophet Muhammed, is there anything written about him outside the Bible from those early days that described him?
5. After all those years, what modern Jews say about Islam?
6. Assuming that you have to share your apartment with someone, and there are only two persons, one Christian and one Muslim, then whom would you choose? (you don’t have to answer this question if you find it embarrassing).

Thank you! Although I do not live in Israel, I appreciate the sentiment.

I will assume, in answering your questions, that by “Israel” you are referring to the modern state.

The modern state of Israel is officially secular, although it is involved, to a certain extent, with religious affairs. To my knowledge, no city officially follows Jewish law, although there are many religious (and allegedly religious) communities. I understand that while some settlements throughout the country may exclude individuals and families (both Jewish and non-Jewish alike) from residency in those places, no city has a policy to do so.

Unfortunately, not all food served in Israel conforms to the Jewish dietary regulations.

I believe that God made a promise to Yishma’el, but not a covenant. A “covenant” is a bilateral agreement that is proposed, accepted, and ratified; the Hebrew word for this is “berith.”

Originally, some of the Jewish tribes did view Muhammed favorably; opposition to him and his followers grew only due to political circumstance that unfortunately developed over the course of early Muslim history. In all truth, Muslims and Jews are family; sometimes family members become estranged from each other, but this is not a determined state of affairs. Over the course of history, many Jewish communities have had extremely positive relationships with many Muslim communities. In fact, many Jewish and Muslim historians have noted how Judaism played a formative role in shaping Islam and Islam subsequently played a substantial role in shaping the continuing development of Judaism. Abraham Maimonides (son of the famous Moses Maimonides, known as Rambam) even declared that the Sufis (a group within the Muslim population) practiced some of the original and ancient religious practices of biblical Israel, which we had lost over the course of our exile.

I would share an apartment with whomever is nicest. Religious beliefs do not factor into it for me.

I hope I answered your questions!

 

[Verus_Israel]

Round 2! Ding ding ding!
Thanks for your response, definitely not what I was expecting though
So, my next set of questions: What is a messiah? Would you say any figures in the Tanakh are messiahs? Were the Israelites waiting for “The Messiah” ?
PS, Totally forgot that I sent my first message during Shabot Another poster pointed it out, and I was like…yup…i shoulda thought of that

You’re more than welcome. I’m glad you found my response useful.

A “messiah” literally is “one who is anointed.” In the context of Jewish socio-political history, a messiah is someone who arises to liberate the Jews and restore us to the sole sovereignty of our law. “The” messiah is understood to be an individual who will liberate us from our current exile, where we are subject to laws that are intrinsically opposed to our own, and resume our civil and religious institutions (e.g. the Temple, which is a house of prayer for all nations).

Personally, I believe that there are many such “messiahs” (liberators) mentioned in the Tanakh: The judges, whose deeds on behalf of the people are recorded in the book of that name; David, who fully liberated us from foreign rule; Ezra and Nehemia, who brought most of the Jews back into the land of Israel during the reign of Cyrus I in Persia.

Whenever we find ourselves in a state of socio-political subjugation (bound under the sovereignty of anything but our own law), we await a “messiah” - someone to liberate us from these unfortunate conditions. As Rambam famously put it,

"…and even though he tarries, nevertheless - I await him, every day that he may come…

I hope that helps!

 

[reen12]

Thank you!

There are many ways to understand the origins of “rabbinic Judaism.” On one level, rabbinic Judaism originates with the seventy elders (constituting the first Jewish Supreme Court) in the time of Moses, as the title “ribbi” (“rabbi”) refers to a judge on that court. On another level, rabbinic Judaism originates in the time of the Sadduccees, who were the early opponents of scriptural interpretation in general and the established traditional interpretations in particular; on this level, “rabbinic Judaism” designates the more traditionalist camp within the people. On yet another level, rabbinic Judaism starts with Hillel ha-Zaqen (c. 100 BCE), who was the first to formally apply hermeneutic rules in the interpretation of the Tanakh. It should also be noted that the early rabbis were called “scribes” (Heb. “Soferim”) due to their role in transmitting the written text of the Tora (and the oral interpretations associated with it) from one generation to the next.

After the destruction of the second Temple, worship was transferred to the synagogue, where prayer - called “worship of the heart” in rabbinic literature - takes place. Interestingly, it is the synagogue, and not the Temple, that served as the model for the church and the mosque.

The sacrificial system was discontinued or held in abeyance (depending on how you see it) due to a biblical precept disallowing the sacrifice of animals outside of God’s designated precinct. In early times, this was the Tabernacle; once the first Temple was built, that replaced the Tabernacle as the site of sacrificial worship.

I can elaborate more if you like. I hope that answered your questions!

I appreciate your reply, Verus Israel, and yes, you fully addressed my questions. Thank you.

I have an additional question, if you would have the patience
and the kindness to address same.

Catholics are used to a clear ‘authority’ - when it comes to
matters pertaining to the generation of doctrines and dogmas,
as well as the interpretation of Scripture.

My understanding is that Judaism has no such ‘authority,’
and that opinions - on various questions [within reason] - are accomodated.

If I understand, correctly, Judaism is interested, primarily, in the
keeping of Torah. Abstract matters are not of interest, for the
most part. The ‘systemizing,’ redolent of Christian theology -
is not at all the focus, in Judaism.

What constitutes ‘authority,’ in Judaism?

reen12

 

[reen12]

quote: Verus Israel

The sacrificial system was discontinued or held in abeyance (depending on how you see it) due to a biblical precept disallowing the sacrifice of animals outside of God’s designated precinct

As to the Temple, and animal sacrifice -
My own thought, for what it’s worth, is this:

God knew, from all eternity, that animal sacrifice would come to an end, among the nations - as time moved forward.
The Babylonian captivity was a time when sacrifice could not be offered, in the Temple. Was this a preparation, for the worship of
God - in the synagogue setting, as the events of history
moved forward?

Through the prophets, God tells His people that He wishes mercy, not sacrifice. [not mutually exclusive, I realize.]

"My prayer shall be established like incense before You -
the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.’’ Ps. 141

reen12

 

[John_Goddard]

Whenever we find ourselves in a state of socio-political subjugation (bound under the sovereignty of anything but our own law), we await a “messiah” - someone to liberate us from these unfortunate conditions. As Rambam famously put it,

"…and even though he tarries, nevertheless - I await him, every day that he may come…

I hope that helps!

The State seems to act in a Nehemiah capacity, with the UN, UK, USA, etc. in Cyrus/Artaxerxes roles. Waiting on the remaining Ezra figure to finalize the process with uniform Torah observance across the nation and restoration of Temple functions, signaling the presence of a King Messiah from David.

Of course many Christians hope this turns out to be Jesus, for both of us, and not someone else.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

My question is this: Why do the Jews reject Christ when it so clearly states that in Isaiah 53? What about the other prophets who foretold Christ? Why do Jews reject Christ?

Isaiah has much to say about the Chosen People choosing not to choose their Messiah. Matthew 13:14-7 Isaish 6:9-10

 

[John_Goddard]

Isaiah has much to say about the Chosen People choosing not to choose their Messiah. Matthew 13:14-7 Isaish 6:9-10

As well:

Romans 11:7-9 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

It’s a lesson in trusting God to tell you how much rope you should take. Rather than grabbing it all just because He makes it available to us.

 

[reen12]

The sacrificial system was discontinued or held in abeyance (depending on how you see it) due to a biblical precept disallowing the sacrifice of animals outside of God’s designated precinct.

As to the Temple, and animal sacrifice -
My own thought, for what it’s worth, is this:

God knew, from all eternity, that animal sacrifice would come to an end,
among the nations - as time moved forward. The Babylonian captivity
was a time when sacrifice could not be offered, in the Temple.
Was this a preparation, for the worship of God, in the synagogue setting -
as the events of history moved forward?

Through the prophets, God tells His people that He wishes mercy, not sacrifice.
[not mutually exclusive, I realize.]

quote: Verus Israel

After the destruction of the second Temple, worship was transferred to the synagogue, where prayer - called “worship of the heart” in rabbinic literature - takes place.

This new reality - ‘worship of the heart’ - is averred to, I think, in the psalm.

"My prayer shall be established like incense before You -
the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.’’ Ps. 141

reen12

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Classic Judaism did not believe in an afterlife. Most Jews still don’t.

Actually, it seems dont’ again.

After the demise of the Sadducees, disbelief in the afterlife went with them. When it was revived, I can’t say, because Jewish polemics with Christians and Muslims don’t dispute the existence of an afterlife, the 13th of the 13 Principles of Jewish Faith, but I am guessing the rise of the Reform movement.

The point of burying people is to respect the dead and the families (and probably prevent disease). Your afterlife is your reputation. Were you a good person? Did you live well? Were you kind to others? Were you evil? Did you do murder or fraud? You live on in the memories of others be it good or bad.

Orthodox Jewish amputees save the limb to be buried with it, an affirmation of the Resurrection.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Conversion is not horribly difficult. Find a Rabbi who will be your mentor (many Rabbis and Temples have conversion institutes or are members of a shared one). Ask him for conversion studies. He may refuse, ask again, and one more time again. Many rabbis hold to the idea of refusing 3 times to ensure the potential convert is serious as this is a big step.

There will usually be a period of study in which you learn the Law, philosophy, history, traditions, calendar, Hebrew (most conservative synagogues have at least half their davening services in Hebrew). Potential convers are expected to try to follow halakh while studying. Finally, if it is deemed you’re ready, you’ll be officially converted in a ceremony. If male, you’ll need to be circumcised (if not already, if you are, a symbolic drop of blood may be drawn by a nick), and immersion in the mikveh (ritual bath) for both genders completes the act. After that, you’re as Jewish as the guy who has ancestors dating back to the Patriarchs.

Although the ger (Jewish convert) is not supposed to have that status brought up under Jewish law, the Talmud does contain rulings that he must say “their Fathers,” instead of “our Fathers,” when refering to the patriarchs.