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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Actually we know for a fact that he had conversos (Jewish converts) on his ship, one, I forget his name was the first to set foot in the New World.
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
woow that’s great . When you are free , pl. let us know about the similarities on Judeo Arabic culture.
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hannah_miriam
Guest
The Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria.
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anon52328184
Guest
thank you hannah miriam. i was thinking pinto, but i knew that was a bean!!
as you can tell, it has been many years since i have studied american history.
i remember we always had to learn the names of the 3 ships.
thanks!
as you can tell, it has been many years since i have studied american history.
i remember we always had to learn the names of the 3 ships.
thanks!
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hannah_miriam
Guest
As far as the Jews being exiled from Spain around the time of Columbus, there is some speculation that Columbus was actually Jewish. I remember discussing this a few years ago during Torah Study. IT was back when politician, celebrity’s and any other news worthy types couldn’t call the media fast enough to declare and revel in their Jewish heredity.
Regarding this period, the Middle Ages in the Church’s history. Around the mid 1,000’s the reconquest of Spain began. At this point in time, Spain had been living under Muslim rule for nearly 350 years. In 1085, the Christians recaptured Toledo. Cordova (1236) and Seville(1248) followed and finally in 1492 Granada was taken, thus ending almost 800 years of Islamic rule in that country. Despite some opinions that the Muslims were a tolerant and progressive group, quite the opposite is true, in fact, they were quite intolerant and in some cases brutal towards Jews and Christians. They burned books, levied special taxes and imposed special dress codes.
If the Muslims were outed by the Christians in 1492, and assuming the Jews had maintained a strong presence in Spain up until that time, we have to conclude that it was in fact the Church that exiled the Jews don’t we?
Regarding this period, the Middle Ages in the Church’s history. Around the mid 1,000’s the reconquest of Spain began. At this point in time, Spain had been living under Muslim rule for nearly 350 years. In 1085, the Christians recaptured Toledo. Cordova (1236) and Seville(1248) followed and finally in 1492 Granada was taken, thus ending almost 800 years of Islamic rule in that country. Despite some opinions that the Muslims were a tolerant and progressive group, quite the opposite is true, in fact, they were quite intolerant and in some cases brutal towards Jews and Christians. They burned books, levied special taxes and imposed special dress codes.
If the Muslims were outed by the Christians in 1492, and assuming the Jews had maintained a strong presence in Spain up until that time, we have to conclude that it was in fact the Church that exiled the Jews don’t we?
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
Answers to Non-Muslims by Dr. Zakir Naik
Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
…The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert.
Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims.
There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
**
14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.**
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled.
Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations.
If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
institutealislam.com/answers-to-non-muslims-by-dr-zakir-naik/
a related link :
Answers to Non-Muslims by Dr. Zakir Naik
Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
…The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert.
Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims.
There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
**
14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.**
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled.
Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations.
If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
institutealislam.com/answers-to-non-muslims-by-dr-zakir-naik/
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anon52328184
Guest
when i studied at the synagogue a few years back, i can remember the rabbi telling us the same thing about the possibility that Columbus himself was jewish. i lived in spain from 1972-1973 and i travelled extensively in southern spain so i am knowledgable about the history of the moors and the influence they had. yes, when the Catholic Church regained the power, the jews and muslims were exiled. actually, under moorish rule, all three managed to live together fairly well. they left behind some beautiful architecture in southern spain and influence on music and dance. in fact, i believe now that the muslims in spain are wanting back one of their beautiful mosques that was turned into a cathedral. so far, the Catholic church says no. we will see how long that lasts. i loved Spain, but it was still under Franco, and i am sure it has changed the past 30 years as has all of europe. yes, the jewish people had to become very adept at travelling and adapting and having crafts and jobs that were necessary to the communities they were living in.
i still want to read a history of the jews. do you have any good books on that subject that you would recommend? i really enjoyed studying and learning about jewish religion and culture. i was baptized christian and just became roman catholic two months ago.
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Verus_Israel
Guest
Thank you! The Sabbath was extremely peaceful and refreshing, and I feel recharged for the week.To delve deeper into the distinction between statehood and law, what do you expect the Messiah to do? In Canada and the US at least, I think, there are no laws that target Jews or discriminate against them. If you are living in those societies, and perhaps in a predominantly Jewish community, are you not “in Israel”, so to speak? Sorry if this is unclear…I’m not entirely sure what I’m asking…
Have a blessed Shabot!
Please allow me to provide some information that will help understand the role of a messiah in the context of our socio-political history. Up until around three hundred years ago, Jews did not have citizenship in their respective countries of residence. As tolerated non-citizens, we were allowed to govern ourselves according to our law, with a few of our basic legal and social institutions (e.g. the court of law, the synagogue, the school system). This was a modicum of autonomy within the greater, gentile society at large. However, when members of many communities accepted citizenship that was offered to them during the various periods of European “emancipation,” the resulting loss of autonomy for countless communities proved a great setback in terms of restoring our society to its former status. So you see, within this exile itself we have been able to maintain our own civil autonomy for great periods of time - yet still, we were and are without a Temple and without a Supreme Court to unite us as a people.
We are not trying to escape anti-Semitic legislation in hoping for the messiah, but rather an authoritarian legal and social system basically predicated on the use of force and coercion over that of reason and persuasion, with the principle of “might makes right” as its cornerstone. In such a system, there is no true equality or justice under the law - because many segments of society (including the government itself) live above the law! Our protest of the systems outside of our own is not directed, primarily, towards any xenophobic elements with those systems, but rather towards the over-arching injustice that pervades them. We believe that our own law offers us the best chance at realizing our God-given autonomy and freedom in this lifetime.
Does that help at all?
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Verus_Israel
Guest
You’re more than welcome, glad I could help!
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hannah_miriam
Guest
Thank you, Deborah. It sounds as if you have led a full and interesting life!! May I ask, what brought you to catholicism?
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anon52328184
Guest
it has been a long journey. i was baptized in the episcopal church in 1954.
my dad was catholic and my mother was lutheran so we were sent to “neutral ground”. it was a detriment, however, as even though both of my parents became episcopalian, they really did not practice their faith or attend church very often. i had to search out God myself basically. as i grew older and got to know my father’s side of the family better, i knew there was something different about the Catholic side. they were nicer, more forgiving.
not all were practicing catholics, so i was never able to talk to anyone about being Catholic and i really wasn’t learning much about being episcopalian other than we didn’t have the Pope. in high school, out of nowhere, i had an intense interest in judaism. there were no synagogues in my town, but i think i was beginning to question the two religions and what they meant. in college i minored in religion so i was able to learn a little more about judaism
and other world religions, but i also stopped going to church. i led a secular life for close to 30 years. i always had a belief in the God of the Christian/Jewish religions, but i guess i just never had a good foundation to develop a relationship with a church organization. a friend of mine invited me to go to her protestant non-denominational church and i did. i had not been around many mainline protestants so it was a new experience for me. i tried renewing my spiritual life again and reading the Bible. i began to question the difference between the episcopal and catholic churches. i studied at the synagogue. i love the jewish community!! realistically, i was never sure how a convert is truly accepted. finally, i decided that i needed to pursue being roman catholic. it has been a 12 year journey. sometimes i still feel like i am stuck between 2 worlds, the jewish and the catholic. i think i have a jewish soul i guess. but i also like being roman catholic. that probably doesn’t make any sense at all, but that is the state of my spiritual life right now. this time of year i think of the high holiday services that i enjoyed so much. the prayers were so beautiful, the blowing of the shofar. i never made challah or lit candles for shabbat, though. it was wonderful though to be able to study at the synagogue and get to know the rabbi’s and attend services. i even took a few hebrew classes. the jewish people have a deep love for G-d and are very obedient and are resilient and perservering. i go back and forth on many issues. anyhow, that is a brief summary of my spiritual journey for 54 years. right now, i think i am where i belong for the time being.
my dad was catholic and my mother was lutheran so we were sent to “neutral ground”. it was a detriment, however, as even though both of my parents became episcopalian, they really did not practice their faith or attend church very often. i had to search out God myself basically. as i grew older and got to know my father’s side of the family better, i knew there was something different about the Catholic side. they were nicer, more forgiving.
not all were practicing catholics, so i was never able to talk to anyone about being Catholic and i really wasn’t learning much about being episcopalian other than we didn’t have the Pope. in high school, out of nowhere, i had an intense interest in judaism. there were no synagogues in my town, but i think i was beginning to question the two religions and what they meant. in college i minored in religion so i was able to learn a little more about judaism
and other world religions, but i also stopped going to church. i led a secular life for close to 30 years. i always had a belief in the God of the Christian/Jewish religions, but i guess i just never had a good foundation to develop a relationship with a church organization. a friend of mine invited me to go to her protestant non-denominational church and i did. i had not been around many mainline protestants so it was a new experience for me. i tried renewing my spiritual life again and reading the Bible. i began to question the difference between the episcopal and catholic churches. i studied at the synagogue. i love the jewish community!! realistically, i was never sure how a convert is truly accepted. finally, i decided that i needed to pursue being roman catholic. it has been a 12 year journey. sometimes i still feel like i am stuck between 2 worlds, the jewish and the catholic. i think i have a jewish soul i guess. but i also like being roman catholic. that probably doesn’t make any sense at all, but that is the state of my spiritual life right now. this time of year i think of the high holiday services that i enjoyed so much. the prayers were so beautiful, the blowing of the shofar. i never made challah or lit candles for shabbat, though. it was wonderful though to be able to study at the synagogue and get to know the rabbi’s and attend services. i even took a few hebrew classes. the jewish people have a deep love for G-d and are very obedient and are resilient and perservering. i go back and forth on many issues. anyhow, that is a brief summary of my spiritual journey for 54 years. right now, i think i am where i belong for the time being.
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reen12
Guest
Thank you for your kind reply, Valke2.
Over time, I’ve read that there are human beings, in this world,
who care not if God rewards in an afterlife, because to serve
and to worship Him is joy sufficient.
Coincidently, Reb Zusia happens to be my favorite human being from the past.
In fact, I’m writing a children’s book, based on Reb Zusia.
I’ve done some of the drawings needful, to include in the book.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
This one is my favorite.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/Zusiaimagewithexcessmaterialremoved.jpg
Stated a thread, on Reb Zusia, this past summer.
The stories told of him are beautiful. So I told them myself,
hoping to convey his holiness and his love of HaShem.
Are you familiar with the book You Never Know: A Legend
of the Lamed-vavniks.
ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MF6M1SJFL.SL500_AA240.jpg
It’s a wonderful book.
Thank you, again, for addressing my question, Valke2.
I do appreciate your kindness, in taking the time to offer reply.
reen12
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ROBAUTEN
Guest
Dear Verus Israel, I’ve read the entire thread with much facination and appreciation. My question is: I believe you stated that Judiasm does not consider man to be inheritantly sinful on the one hand…and on the other, you are hoping for the Messiah to come and put right all the evil and injustice in the world (that’s a very loose paraphrase - and I hope it was of something you said and not somebody else on here). My question is: Where does the evil that messiah must fix come from if it is not from man’s natural (fallen) inclination to sin? What meaning to you find in the story of Adam’s transgression and the resulting entry of pain, thorns, sweat and death into the world in Genesis 3?
A second question: In the Torah the Hebrew word “one” echad can mean day one (the first counted day) or the two become one/united (in marriage). If two persons can become one in marriage (Gen. 2) is there any linguistic reason why Christians can not understand three persons being one in the Shema: Hear O Israel the Lord is our God, the Lord is one (Deut. 6).?
Thank you in advance for your answer.**
A second question: In the Torah the Hebrew word “one” echad can mean day one (the first counted day) or the two become one/united (in marriage). If two persons can become one in marriage (Gen. 2) is there any linguistic reason why Christians can not understand three persons being one in the Shema: Hear O Israel the Lord is our God, the Lord is one (Deut. 6).?
Thank you in advance for your answer.**
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Gamera
Guest
Hi. I’ve asked this history question of others and never received a satisfactory answer. When did the Jewish people lose track of their tribal geneologies? In the New Testatment times every Jewish person knew which tribe they belonged to. When did that end?Hi! If you have any questions about our religion, our culture, or our history, please feel free to ask. I promise I won’t be offended!
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anon52328184
Guest
i believe they have kept track of the priestly tribe of levi, but i might be incorrect in this.
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anon52328184
Guest
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
There is a reason why the Coptic date according to the “Era of Martyrs.”
There is also a reason why the areas that are a Christian majority are in the South, away from the Muslim center in Cairo.
Copts are martyred to this day. It is only their Faith that has kept there numbers (btw, official government figures say only two milliom Copts for decades). Which is why every Copt I know knows a Muslim who has converted.
I posted on this topic.
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hannah_miriam
Guest
As far as books go, you might consider Jewish LIteracy: The Most Important Things to know About the Jewish Religion, Its People, and Its History." by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin. I haven’t personally read that one but I have read (and frequently refer to) his “A Code of Jewish Ethics” You Shall Be Holy Volume 1".
Also, there is “The Story of Scripture - From Oral Tradition To the Written Word” by Rabbi Daniel Jeremy Silver. This was published (1990) posthumously.
Currently, I am reading (again) The Jew and the Lotus by Rodger Kamenetz. Good Luck!
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anon52328184
Guest
i have three books.
the roots of Catholicism or Christianity are in Judaism.
i am hoping once i get relocated later this fall, i can begin some of my reading.
- salvation is from the jews - which is supposed to be really good. you might have heard of this one.
- wanderings - chaim potok’s history of the jews
- jews, god and history - max i. dimont
the roots of Catholicism or Christianity are in Judaism.
i am hoping once i get relocated later this fall, i can begin some of my reading.
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hannah_miriam
Guest
The tendency of man’s heart is towards evil from his youth (Genesis 8:21)
We are not born bad - we are not born good. The Talmud understands that by nature, humans have an inclination for good (yetzer hatov) and evil (yetzer hara). According to the Rabbi’s, the evil inclination houses our aggressive instincts, which produces creativity and achievement. The believe that if all evil inclination was eradicated that all human and animal life would cease to exist.(Rabbi Daniel Telushkin)
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