Sure. But what is the point? If you have two ways to achieve the same desired result, one of them is easier and brings more pleasure than the other, doesn’t it make sense to choose the better one?Why would someone abstain? For the very same reason someone would use birth control, to prevent or postpone pregnancy.
The answer is: yes. I don’t know if our body was “meant” to work like this (by whom?), but certainly does work like this. Our body will simply not allow to overindulge in sex.Sure birth control may be convenient and may allow a couple to have sex whenever they want, but is that the way our bodies were meant to work?
I don’t know about “disordered”, but it sure is unhealthy.Why is it that intentionally purging oneself after eating is considered disordered but using birth control isn’t?
Exactly - China is the perfect example of a secular reason against birth control. Secularist will never get it right, regardless of the direction they pursue or demand - as China has so aptly taught the world.This must be put into its proper context. As anyone familiar with Chinese history knows, the current policy is a complete reversal of prior policy during Mao’s reign of having as many children as possible. Mothers with 10 or more children were held in great honor. The overpopulation wrecked havoc on the country.
This is far from proven. Also, even if birth control was proven to be unhealthy (which it is not) that isn’t really a secular argument against it. I am sure that doctors explain to their patients that there can be side effects of these drugs and people make their own decisions.And they INCREASE the risk of breask cancer. I don’t know about you, but I haven’t seen too many advertisements about endometrial cancer walks, or ovarian cancer walks. The rates of breast cancer have exploded, especially among younger women.
Yes, they are causing something to malfunction in their body to prevent pregnancy…what is your point? This doesn’t automatically make it unhealthy and it certainly has nothing to do with the secular morality of it.I never said anything about pain. There are women who have perfectly normal cycles that are relatively pain free, and are only taking the pill to prevent pregnancy. I am not changing my point at all- in fact I never brought up any of the things you mention. In such cases, they are in fact taking something that disrupts the normal cycle and causes it to malfunction. Pain is a neurological response, not an entire functioning organ system.
I have a feeling that your trouble conceiving has nothing to do with the pill. Do you have any proof?Tell this to someone who has taken the pill for an extended period of time and now has trouble conceiving. This happens more often than people like to discuss, as do changes in sexual response that are often permanent.
It’s not as simple as everyone likes to make it. In addition, everyone knows someone who conceived while either using condoms or the pill. If you’re trying to prevent pregnancy because you want to have sex whenever you want without consequences, it’s a much bigger blow when someone finds out she’s pregnant who thought she was in control. Not to mention being pregnant while on the pill and not knowing it is dangerous to a baby.
Your analogy is completely flawed. Abstaining from sex during high fertility times is like avoiding a high calorie meal to starve and not eat anything. Why abstain from sex for a period of time when you can just NOT abstain from sex? If that high calorie steak meal that was so pleasurable for you had no real consequences then why abstain from it at all?Why would someone abstain? For the very same reason someone would use birth control, to prevent or postpone pregnancy. I agree with everything you said after your question. Those are very important issues but can be more or less resolved with sexual discipline. That’s the whole idea of using NFP to avoid pregnancy. There are still plenty of opportunities for a couple to enjoy sex. Abstaining from sex during high fertility times but not during low fertility is like avoiding the high calorie steak dinner and opting for a nice fish meal instead (I really don’t mean to be beating a dead horse with this analogy… it just seems to work in getting my ideas across)
Sure birth control may be convenient and may allow a couple to have sex whenever they want, but is that the way our bodies were meant to work? Why is it that intentionally purging oneself after eating is considered disordered but using birth control isn’t? (the Catholic church is one of the few groups of people that still sees it this way)
China is a perfect example of a secular reason against STATE MANDATED birth control. Big difference.Exactly - China is the perfect example of a secular reason against birth control. Secularist will never get it right, regardless of the direction they pursue or demand - as China has so aptly taught the world.
That is not accurate - since the same thing happens with NFP, a significant percentage of zygotes will fail to implant regardless of whether you are on the Pill or on NFP (indeed it is more likely to happen with NFP since the Pill prevents ovulation)Not to mention the serious side effects the contraceptive pill has…
Oh also, the pill works as an abortifacient, it can prevent the nidation of the fertilized ovum.
I bet the women who have died or have permanent damage from taking birth control pills would beg to differ. Quite a few different forms of birth control drugs have been pulled because of deaths and other serious side affects. When you add up all of the lawsuits, drug recalls, research, reported and unreported side effects, you have a whole lot of evidence that the slight convenience of knowing when you got pregnant (because it will happen) isn’t worth the health risks. From an environmental standpoint they end up in our water supply and have been shown to be detrimental to amphibians (I’ll have to find the study)… is not horrible for you.
It is all in the eyes of the beholder. It liberates people from the possibility of conception, and allows them to concentrate on EACH OTHER. There is nothing “self-centered” about that or “everyone for themselves”. There is absolutely no evidence for your claims. None at all.As for arguments against ABC in general, sociologically the arguments are basically the same as what the Church has been saying for years. ABC turns people into animals. And self-centered ones at that. This “everyone for themselves” type attitude and behavior causes instability and chaos in society. Marriage and children help to tie society together. Without that you don’t have a society.
What a ridiculous argument. How does ABC turn people into animals? Do animals use ABC now? This “everyone for themselves” attitude has been going on forever. It is the nature of humans to some extent and I doubt it is any worse now than it was in other times. Sex feels good. People want to have sex without having babies. Without bringing God into the equation there isn’t anything objectively wrong with that. And that is ESPECIALLY true when it is committed couples using a form of ABC.As for arguments against ABC in general, sociologically the arguments are basically the same as what the Church has been saying for years. ABC turns people into animals. And self-centered ones at that. This “everyone for themselves” type attitude and behavior causes instability and chaos in society. Marriage and children help to tie society together. Without that you don’t have a society.
Just because you feel there isn’t anything wrong with it, is not objective. That is entirely subjective. Try again.What a ridiculous argument. How does ABC turn people into animals? Do animals use ABC now? This “everyone for themselves” attitude has been going on forever. It is the nature of humans to some extent and I doubt it is any worse now than it was in other times. Sex feels good. People want to have sex without having babies. Without bringing God into the equation there isn’t anything objectively wrong with that. And that is ESPECIALLY true when it is committed couples using a form of ABC.
Yes, it is ridiculous. The security is real, even if it is not 100%. Of course engaging in mutual stimulation ()without penetration) is 100% secure, and it is a part of birth control.Dawnia’s point about birth control giving people a false sense of security is very valid, and not at all ridiculous.
True but a complete non-sequitur. We talk about those people who do not want conception to happen for a certain time.Most people, religious or not, would agree that the best environment to raise children is in a stable home with a couple that is committed to each other and welcoming of their children.
What is so “selfish” to engage in expressing your love toward your loved one? Whenever BOTH of you feel like it? Using birth control is not “rape”! None of the affection is removed with the security, on the other hand it is enhanced. These “objections” are ridiculously nonsensical and weak.The problem of instant gratification isn’t a religious one, either. Wanting to have sex whenever you feel like it without consequences is not only unrealistic, because there are consequences, but also selfish.
I have no idea what you are talking about. China policies to increase population wreaked havoc on the country, as did their pyramid-funded social programs. They reversed their population stance, and are running in the opposite direction on cradle-to-grave care, and they’re the fastest growing economy on earth.Exactly - China is the perfect example of a secular reason against birth control. Secularist will never get it right, regardless of the direction they pursue or demand - as China has so aptly taught the world.
Yes, digging up examples of people who don’t know how to contracept properly and using that to further your case is poor reasoning.Yes, it is ridiculous. The security is real, even if it is not 100%. Of course engaging in mutual stimulation ()without penetration) is 100% secure, and it is a part of birth control.
Digging up examples? Even when used perfectly there is still a failure rate. What’s your point?Yes, digging up examples of people who don’t know how to contracept properly and using that to further your case is poor reasoning.
The thing is, people may honestly believe and report that they have used it correctly without having done so.Digging up examples? Even when used perfectly there is still a failure rate. What’s your point?
Does it matter? Condoms still break, even with perfect use, and the effectiveness of the pill can be affected by things we aren’t in control of, and a woman can still ovulate. Still a failure rate, even with perfect use.The thing is, people may honestly believe and report that they have used it correctly without having done so.
I have had friends who did not realise that certain medications interfered with the Pill’s effectiveness, or that a space has to be left at the tip of a condom for the sperm to collect, so that it does not burst. Doctors and nurses did not tell them this or they just did’nt read the fine print.