Anybody else have a bad WWME experience?

[Ridgerunner]

Boy, is this a blast from the past for me!

My wife and I went to it many years ago. We were asked to be a presenter team at the end. That is a lot of work. A lot. It included specific training by what were called “cadre” teams, as well as by others in the local movement. We even considered the “cadre” teams, but decided we just couldn’t do that, because they went all over the country training people. But we were presenters on a number of weekends, and participated in training other teams.

It is very difficult to do it well. If your instructors are any good, they ditch anything in your proposed presentation that seems like psychology, “pop” or otherwise. They exclude particularities that are regional or idiosyncratic. They take out things that are potentially puzzling or distracting or harshly judgmental. They work to take out things that might trigger untoward responses by unbalanced people. It really is hard work, and you end up rewriting your presentations over and over again, both by instructors’ suggestions and by experiences as a presenting team.

The priest is not only essential, he’s crucial. We were very fortunate in having a priest who was both uncommonly wise and holy. A very decent and forgiving man. His presentations were extremely kind, but morally instructive at the same time. It may sound silly to some, but his particularly favorite thing to talk about was forgiveness in marriage and seeing the face of Jesus in one’s spouse, and being as like Jesus as we could. His presentation of the biblical account of Jesus’ encounter with the woman caught in adultery was a masterpiece. That’s really the point of all that “feelings” stuff. I am definitely not a “touchy-feely” kind of guy, but I really was impressed by the reason for all of that once I “got it”. It’s not MY feelings that are the focus, it’s my SPOUSE’s feelings, and we need to see that we treat him/her as we would Jesus. The “feelings” thing is to get away from the “think” thing, which tends to be judgmental and can be kind of cold. At one point, we had a different priest, but he just wasn’t as good as the regular one, and the presentation suffered from it.

There were some not-too-good moments, particularly in the cadre training sessions. But it really was amazing how many couples reported at the end that they went to confession for the first time in years or had reconciled some truly difficult thing. Some non-Catholic spouses converted. Interestingly, a number of protestant couples started showing up. I’m not sure how that all worked out for them. I truly believe some marriages were saved, though i am aware of one that most definitely was not.

That “give from your need, not from your excess” thing isn’t really aimed at money acquisition. It’s to change attitudes, and the presentation of it is everything. It can be really good or not good.

Bottom line. I think it can be done well or poorly. It’s very “team dependent”, and that, perhaps, is its potential weakness. In addition the the excellent priest, our particular team had some very holy people on it, and I admire them to this day. None of them were “navel gazers” or “feelings wallowers”. They were, in ordinary life, very practical people. But they were very kindly people.

Was it good for our marriage? Yes, it was. Was it for others? I really do think so. Is it always? Well, from some of the comments, I would have to say, no, it is not.

 

[aicirt]

We attended Marriage Encounter in the 70s. We were asked to stand and tell what was the most exciting thing about the experience. One couple from our neighborhood got up and said he had FOUND JESUS! We felt shortchanged. We hadn’t found Him. I think we felt that some were really trying to show their spouses they were with the program.

A relative also went another time. When they went to their rooms to write in their feelings in their journals and then exchange them, her husband wrote, “I want a divorce.”

Never heard of receiving as one. Sounds very hookey to me too. Totally turned off.

Shared meals? My husband hates buffets and family style. Would be gone.

And where are the priests and bishops who allow these things like the Mass another poster described? Who would pray for in vitro? How clueless?

 

[white_sheep]

My wife needs to take a class on communication.

Engaged Encounter was ridiculous. I felt used and dirty afterward.

 

[Paul_D]

We attended Marriage Encounter in the 70s. We were asked to stand and tell what was the most exciting thing about the experience. One couple from our neighborhood got up and said he had FOUND JESUS! We felt shortchanged. We hadn’t found Him. I think we felt that some were really trying to show their spouses they were with the program.

A relative also went another time. When they went to their rooms to write in their feelings in their journals and then exchange them, her husband wrote, “I want a divorce.”

Never heard of receiving as one. Sounds very hookey to me too. Totally turned off.

Shared meals? My husband hates buffets and family style. Would be gone.

And where are the priests and bishops who allow these things like the Mass another poster described? Who would pray for in vitro? How clueless?

Just wanted to comment on some of the points above:

Each finds God in their own way. Many people do grow closer in their relationship with their spouse and God. Does this happen in the same way with everyone? Probably not. Does it at least open the door? Yes - and that is always an important first step. Everyone, walks a little bit different path.

As mentioned above - if a couple is in crisis, a WWME weekend is not for them. Persons are advised that if they are in crisis that often it is best to go to a program such as retrouvaille.org/.

Regarding eating meals with others and eating buffet style, the the way that meals are served varies from location to location. If you do not want to eat meals with others, then I agree that going to this or any other retreat where you have to eat may not be for you or your husband.

With the Masses that go on all over the country all the time in all places, I am sure that most Priests and Bishops work very hard to celebrate them in the proper manner, including during retreats such as WWME. The fact that there was this one issue during this one Mass during the prayers of the faithful is not fair to hold against all Masses held during retreats. In the case mentioned above, I am sure that everyone was so shocked that it may have confused everyone there as it had never happened before. I would like to give the celebrant the benefit of the doubt.

Hope this helps!

P

 

[Paul_D]

My wife needs to take a class on communication.

Engaged Encounter was ridiculous. I felt used and dirty afterward.

For what it is worth - I thought the exact same thing about my wife and that was why I pushed for us to go on a WWME weekend. I found out that I needed to work on how I communicated just as much as she did, I was able to see how I helped and sometimes messed up how we communicated. I hear you!

P

 

[cathlikrn]

I am so relieved to be reading the many postings of bad experiences with WWME! I only wish I would have read them before going on the retreat. My husband and I just returned from our weekend yesterday. Most people there seemed to be enjoying, benefiting, and loving the experience…NOT US! I was starting to feel like we were crazy and hopeless!
However, I will say, we spent much time laughing together and getting each other through the weekend, it definitely renewed us that way
I am glad for the couples that benefited and enjoyed the weekend BUT…I wish I would have been better informed of the process.

 

[EasterJoy]

Was it good for our marriage? Yes, it was. Was it for others? I really do think so. Is it always? Well, from some of the comments, I would have to say, no, it is not.

I knew a priest who used to do lots of these, and he said that while many couples benefitted more enormously than they ever thought they would from sitting still and talking with each other for a weekend, other couples found they got a lot of very difficult truths out only to find they were left with little or no help concerning what to do with that information. These were not couples who thought they had a marriage on the rocks when they went into the weekend, mind you! Some couples unearth things that are actually make their marriages more difficult in the short term, at least, and not better.

My then husband-to-be and I went through and engaged encounter weekend. I guess it was nice to know that we were good communicators, but we learned very little about each other that we didn’t already know. He’s not Catholic, and thought it was more or less a waste of time. He much preferred the preparation sessions where we talked to our priest in private. Based on that experience, however, we haven’t felt moved to go to a marriage encounter.

One of my brothers went to a Marriage Encounter, though, totally against his wishes, and came out thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread. It just depends.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

Over three decades ago, acquaintances badgered, pushed, prodded, and finally recruited my wife and me onto a Marriage Encounter weekend. We have not initiated contact with these folks since. WWME’s frantic recruiting drive was a pyramid scheme, and, like all pyramid schemes, its collapse was inevitable.
The stated aims of Worldwide Marriage Encounter were threefold: to renew the couple’s marriage; through the couple to renew the Church; and through the Church to renew the world. Enthusiastically “encountered” couples may have had these aims in the back of their heads; but, for most, their motive to share Marriage Encounter was far simpler. They got a lot out of it, and wanted their friends, relatives, and even total strangers to enjoy the same experience. Worldwide Marriage Encounter leadership took advantage of their enthusiasm for the “weekend” and tried to turn it toward renewing the Church and the world. Looking back over the years, I can confidently say their scheme failed. I never did understand how a couple’s dialogue, exchanging notebooks and all that, could change the world. Maybe Marriage Encounter was engaging in a little magical thinking?
We went at WWME’s zenith, in the mid 1970s. WWME was giving so many weekends they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for teams. The three presenting couples on our weekend had never before teamed together, and were not a good match; not much chemistry or humor among them.
We objected to the obsessive secrecy which consumed Marriage Encounter recruiters. Marriage Encounter couples refused to give honest answers to honest questions. Some would call that dishonesty. Marriage Encounter, purporting to be a Catholic organization, fails to follow the example of the Founder of Catholicism, Jesus of Nazareth. He preached openly, to all who would listen. He spoke in parables; secrecy had no part in His teachings. Marriage Encounter doesn’t provide agenda to their inductees. Jesus gave His apostles the agenda for Holy Week. They didn’t understand what He was saying, but He told them. We heard again and again from recruiters, “We don’t want to spoil it for you.” Their smugness really irked me; their demeanor screamed, “We’ve got the secret, we’re better.”
Our weekend was a very boring, tiring, tedious experience. The two reasons we didn’t leave were that we wanted to expose whatever it was that was so secret; and we wanted to forestall any criticism that we left just before it got really good. It never got really good.
A pyramid scheme always collapses in upon itself; ask Charles Ponzi or Bernie Madoff. I’m sure many couples grew closer during Marriage Encounter’s heyday, but the program was all too contrived, and “too good to be true.” If something is too good to be true, it probably isn’t too good. Marriage Encounter couldn’t possibly survive; their zenith lasted less than a decade. WWME has been dying a lingering death for decades now. The Impossible Dream remained just that, an impossible dream.

 

[cathlikrn]

The two reasons we didn’t leave were that we wanted to expose whatever it was that was so secret; and we wanted to forestall any criticism that we left just before it got really good. It never got really good.

The reason my husband and I didn’t leave is because they cleverly had Sunday Mass at the VERY END of the weekend (which probably kept other couples there who were dying to leave also!)
Our weekend was awful and at times we felt like we were watching a bad SNL skit.I have to say we had many laughs together and still do remembering some of the ridiculousness of that weekend.
However…NOT funny… They collected our notebooks and placed them on the alter during mass, yes the sacred alter of the Eucharist… My husband had written and drawn some pretty funny stuff to me in his notebook Hindsight, I would have never given ours up to them, I had no idea why they wanted them.
We escaped for a few hours on Sunday morning to explore the city (when we were supposed to be dialoguing in our room.) We were scolded when we returned. (We should have been out finding a Mass to attend)
I’m sorry but I really have nothing good to say about the weekend. I’m sure there are people who love it and marriages that benefit by it. I just wish I would have known what it was about before we went. They should include a description and perhaps some videos on their website.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Yes, also several decades back. There seemed to be a cult-like atmosphere, the team leaders divided the world into those who had made the weekend, and those who hadn’t. Stickers on the car, the “I love you” hand signal. Much pressure to recruit after the initial weekend. That first weekend had its strange aspects, but we held in there. Problem was, the pressure was then put on us to become a “team couple” ourselves, and we agreed, having drunk the Kool-Aid – not realizing that what was left of our marriage then became consumed with writing talks, attending team meetings, getting talks critiqued, etc. – with no time at all to work on our own relationship. Some of the worst arguments we had were triggered by team pressures. One of my biggest resentments is that the head team couple driving all this in our area didn’t recognize the struggles going on in our own marriage, and our relationship took back seat to being a team couple, putting on a false face for a weekend, etc. We never felt we could be honest about our problems because that would be letting ME, and everyone, down.

The marriage ultimately failed, divorce & annulment followed. While I don’t blame WWME for that - it was inevitable given pre-existing issues with my wife - I do have lingering resentment over the incredible pressure put on us to become a team couple, the exhaustion that followed in becoming a team, and the structural inability of WWME to recognize the pressure-cooker environment it created and the toll it took on us. Team burnout was inevitable and I often wonder how many others ended up like us.

 

[Irishmom2]

We never went to ME. But we did attend Engaged Encounter.

Someone earlier mentioned that it could weed out people that shouldn’t get married, and that some couples did actually break up after attending. I am not sure that is something that should be a “goal,” to make people break up, to drive them to the brink of thinking that there is something so horribly wrong with their relationships compared to everyone else, that they should break up.

When we left our Engaged Encounter weekend, we were barely speaking to each other. I left there really wondering if I was doing the right thing getting married. I never felt so alone as after that weekend.

We have been married for 27 years now. Engaged Encounter should not be a requirement for getting married. Perhaps it isn’t in some places. Looking back 27 years later, I can clearly see that the process was a great part of the problem. Writing in books is a great way to communicate. We did that part fine. But expecting one shy person and one introverted person to participate in group dynamics does not always work well. We ended up arguing about what we were being asked to do that weekend. All around us were the lovey dovey couples that obviously had no problem talking about themselves.

It was a long, painful weekend that we endured, and it left a bad taste in our mouths that unfortunately colored the rest of our engagement. It is difficult to be young, and not be able to see that the process was the problem, not our relationship.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

The reason my husband and I didn’t leave is because they cleverly had Sunday Mass at the VERY END of the weekend (which probably kept other couples there who were dying to leave also!)
Very astute observation, Cathlikrn. Of course, when we went on our Marriage Encounter weekend, back in the 1970s, many parishes had Sunday evening Masses, so that was not a problem for us.
Back in the 1970s, we didn’t have the world at our fingertips with the internet. I tried researching before our weekend, because no one who had any information would tell us anything, except, “Try it, you’ll like it.” But the only info I found, in the Reader’s Guide to Periodical Literature, was an article in Time magazine. It wasn’t a neutral article. It seemed to me the Time reporter and her husband were participants on a WWME weekend. I read Father Chuck Gallagher’s book, but learned little more than I did before.
If I knew in the 1970s what I could learn with a few key strokes today, we would have stayed home.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is a very old thread. Probably best to start a new one.

 

[TheDoctor]

A pyramid scheme always collapses in upon itself; ask Charles Ponzi or Bernie Madoff. I’m sure many couples grew closer during Marriage Encounter’s heyday, but the program was all too contrived, and “too good to be true.” If something is too good to be true, it probably isn’t too good. Marriage Encounter couldn’t possibly survive; their zenith lasted less than a decade. WWME has been dying a lingering death for decades now. The Impossible Dream remained just that, an impossible dream.

Full Disclosure Here: My wife and I are involved in WWME (made our weekend over 25 years ago) and since the weekend is different for each couple, it is not appropriate nor helpful to comment on any individual’s reaction to the weekend. Not every retreat format is right for everyone however that being said, I do need to correct your inaccurate assessment of the state of WWME. The first weekend was in 1967 and while it is true that the greatest number of weekends in the US was in the 70’s and 80’s, WWME is still presenting 100’s of weekends yearly across the US in multiple languages and the weekend is now active in over 92 countries world-wide.
During the visit of Canadian Bishops to Rome, Bishop Charles Valois was asked by Pope John Paul II, what he has for the people of his diocese, in particular what he has for the needs of families. When Bishop Valois said he is encouraging “Marriage Encounter” the Pope clasped his hands and said, "I place much of my hope for the future in Marriage Encounter”

 

[on_the_hill]

My wife and I never even consider activities like these. Seems like a good thing we don’t.

We did do the required marriage classes (all day Saturday and part of Sunday) before we got married. I’m glad we don’t have to go through that again. Most of the other couples were younger, and mixed Catholic-Protestant. In fact, I think out of the 10 or 12 couples only two or three were Catholic-Catholic.

I was 27, my wife was 24. The others seemed to be in the 20-23 year old range. We discussed things like the importance of balancing the checkbook. The importance of communicating. Etc. It was a complete waste of time, and actually led to a huge argument between the two of us after the Saturday session. She refused to return for Sunday, I insisted that we had to follow the rules. She insisted we were being talked down to, that the assumption was that we were all unprepared for life. Her position was that if a couple needs to work on these things, then they 're not ready for either adult life or marriage. I insisted that we ought to just follow along and get it over with. She eventually gave in and we went for Sunday and we never, ever mentioned it again.

It was also simply uncomfortable to be open in group discussion about personal matters. And I felt bad for the host couple, because they were clearly uncomfortable with some of it, too.

I hated my First Communion “retreat”, the Confirmation “retreat,” hated the marriage “retreat” and won’t ever do any kind of church retreat again.

EDIT: We did do the Baptism class, and that was fine. No problems there.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

To: TheDoctor-
Who isn’t helped by the free exchange of ideas? Reading though the comments posted here, I noted a complaint about Marriage Encounter’s censorship of negative opinions. I also recall reading elsewhere that any disagreement with leadership or criticism of WWME could end one’s relationship with Marriage Encounter in any official capacity. That doesn’t sound like the free exchange of ideas to me. Perhaps a free exchange of ideas, as in no secrecy, might have facilitated our decision to attend, or avoid, a WWME weekend.
We agree that not every retreat format is right for everyone; I am relating what happened to my wife and me as we were recruited and subsequently attended a WWME weekend. This happened to us; I am writing the truth.
My assessment of the state of Marriage Encounter, in 2014, is that WWME has been dying a lingering death for decades. Let’s look at the facts. WWME is absent from eighty of the 177 territorial archdioceses/dioceses in the United States. WWME weekends are not presented in ten of our fifty states. On Long Island, NY, the birthplace of WWME, only four weekends are scheduled for the next year, from the Narrows to Montauk Point. Attendance at WWME annual National Conventions has been below a thousand couples for several years now. That doesn’t look like a healthy movement to me.
In 1993, Worldwide Marriage Encounter held a 25th anniversary convention. They sent letters all over the country, and around the globe, to every “encountered” couple on their lists, inviting the entire world to their convention at Rutgers University, in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Fathers Gabriel Calvo (the founder of Marriage Encounter) and Chuck Gallagher (the originator of WWME) each addressed the scantily attended event; only 2,500 couples graced the convention. New Brunswick is no more than 144 miles from the most distant point in New Jersey, but a mere 230 couples from the Garden State were present. This is a vibrant, growing movement? It wasn’t twenty years ago, and it isn’t now.

 

[PngnMwka]

We had a great WWME weekend. You basically listen to a series of personal presentations from a priest and 3 retreat leader couples. You are presented with a question, which you take as inspiration to write a love letter to your spouse. After you write the letter, you talk about your letters to each other, in the privacy of your hotel room. The topics progressively get more intimate but it is just between you and your spouse. You just have to stick with it. Sunday was truly beautiful and we left our weekend completely renewed. The weekend was a lot of work, but it was a comfortable, supportive environment. You can easily find reasons to hate and despise anything. You can also choose to enter with an open mind, and look at this as a chance to spend a weekend, sharing with your spouse with minimal distractions.

You are asked to give a free will donation to WWME at the end of the weekend, to cover the cost of the 2-night stay with all meals provided, in our case, at a Sheraton. You are given a donation envelope to provide during mass, and the retreat leaders ask everyone to turn in the envelope, whether or not they were able to provide a donation. We could not donate anything given a tough financial stretch and there were absolutely, no questions asked. The donation part is extremely private and no pressure.

I am the husband and I didn’t expect to get anything from this weekend, but we truly connected in a beautiful, eternally powerful way. All I can say is, have an open mind and stick with the weekend until the end.

 

[sailor28]

The title of this thread is phrased to draw in the negative. I know this is an old thread but I wanted to add some positive to it for those who will see it in the future.

Our ME retreat was very meaningful. It was a time of connection and reflection. The couples that gave talks were well prepared and had marriages that my husband and I thought embodied ones that were living out the sacrament of marriage. Topics we discussed included: our personality styles, communicating feelings, listening, God’s desire for marriage, Marriage as a sacrament. ME teaches you a tool called dialogue. It is basically a love letter you write your spouse. Topics range from everything to everything. You take 10 minutes to write and 10 minutes to discuss. It creates intimate discussion and thoughts about spiritual, physical and emotional topics that draw you together and closer to God. Dialogue questions include ones like:

Has our sacrament been a visible sign to our family?
Luke 15:1-15 Where do I see myself in this gospel?
Do I show my love for you in my daily actions?
How can we keep romance vibrant while raising a family?
How has our romantic love led to greater self-sacrificing love?

Other questions can be found here: wwme.org/dialog-questions.html?field_dialog_question_value=&tid=faith

I am an introvert so I did find the length of the weekend challenging. I don’t like random chit chat so I loved the meaningful questions we had at meals that created intentional conversation. I didn’t consider it fake or forced. We did not connect with the priest that led the weekend. We find it meaningful to receive communion side by side. We found parts of the weekend cheesy. However, we joined a small group after and it has been very helpful to be be connected to other married couples who are serious about the sacrament of marriage. We have been struggling trying to find our way through the church and ME provides a much needed connection for us at a difficult time.

It is true that ME is not for everyone. Before the retreat you are called and asked questions to determine if the retreat is right for you. If you are a traditionalist who finds yourself searching for liturgical abuse when you go to mass it is probably not for you. The atmosphere is relaxed. ME is open to all couples, Catholic or not. They do a good job a being a gateway ministry. By that I mean not hitting people over the head with the catechism but gently leading couples to a closer relationship with God. Taking them exactly where they are at in their journey. If you have no patience for people who are not as holy as you are as well versed in the catechism then it is not for you. The leaders were living the faith deeply but presented it in a way that drew others in instead of judged them.