Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

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elts1956 said:
Wow! She’s just full of herself. It seems you have reached the highest level of self actualization. Congratulations. :bowdown2: You do remind me of a General from the Civil War. “There sits Jackson like a stone wall”.
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**What the hell does all this mean?!

L**
 
elts1956 said:
Originally Posted by royal archer
If you are not willing to explain or provide details you should not be accusing Nuns of behavior that was “indefensible”.

Lim. I think you are having too much fun on this thread playing the word game. This has got to stop. Besides you still haven’t given a personal experience or a source for being able to call the sister’s teaching indefensible. That is an opinion, not a fact and as with all opinions one can take it, or leave it.
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**
What do you want? The nun was one of three in Northern Virginia who “taught” between 1960 and 1968. As I just mentioned 30 seconds ago on another thread, I was present when my classmate kicked one of these nuns down a flight of stairs because she took a swing at him. He provoked her, she reared back, he kicked, she flew. He was a young punk but, also, he had had enough threats from her. She rapped her ruler across knuckes, which was painful but we could get over that. I was most afraid when she rapped her ruler across the desk in front of me. It was obscene and unnecessary. She did this to make a point with a student across the room. She would just hit the nearest desk, not the desk of the offender. One nun would come into the classroom and pull the other one out; they would confer in the hallway and then take one of us out into the hall or into another empty classroom to loom over us with Baltimore Catechism instruction laced with some ominous threat which was never discussed, but was conveyed with body language and tone of voice. This is when I was asked to choose between a rhinestone trinket and a crucifix because I had answered some questions correctly. I was a kid. I took the bauble. And in her mind I’m sure I had just paid for a ticket to hell.

What more do you want? These impressions are long-lasting. It’s not the stories; it’s the manner in which we were taught. The attitude, the violent undertone - having come from an alcoholic family, I had had all too much of it already. Why did I need to be exposed to it on a Saturday - my only day off from school and Church?

If this isn’t enough, if you cannot fathom how impressionable young kids are with matters of the afterlife, if you think I’m a g***amn liar, fine. That’s fine. Then we’re done.

L**
 
limerick said:
**
What do you want? The nun was one of three in Northern Virginia who “taught” between 1960 and 1968. As I just mentioned 30 seconds ago on another thread, I was present when my classmate kicked one of these nuns down a flight of stairs because she took a swing at him. He provoked her, she reared back, he kicked, she flew. He was a young punk but, also, he had had enough threats from her. She rapped her ruler across knuckes, which was painful but we could get over that. I was most afraid when she rapped her ruler across the desk in front of me. It was obscene and unnecessary. She did this to make a point with a student across the room. She would just hit the nearest desk, not the desk of the offender. One nun would come into the classroom and pull the other one out; they would confer in the hallway and then take one of us out into the hall or into another empty classroom to loom over us with Baltimore Catechism instruction laced with some ominous threat which was never discussed, but was conveyed with body language and tone of voice. This is when I was asked to choose between a rhinestone trinket and a crucifix because I had answered some questions correctly. I was a kid. I took the bauble. And in her mind I’m sure I had just paid for a ticket to hell.

What more do you want? These impressions are long-lasting. It’s not the stories; it’s the manner in which we were taught. The attitude, the violent undertone - having come from an alcoholic family, I had had all too much of it already. Why did I need to be exposed to it on a Saturday - my only day off from school and Church?** ??? I don’t know what you are talking about here.
If this isn’t enough, if you cannot fathom how impressionable young kids are with matters of the afterlife, if you think I’m a g***amn liar, fine. That’s fine. Then we’re done.

L
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Didn’t call you anything Lim. Just trying to go by forum rules which state one must give sources. Of course I will accept personal experience also. :coolinoff:
 
limerick said:
**
What do you want? The nun was one of three in Northern Virginia who “taught” between 1960 and 1968. As I just mentioned 30 seconds ago on another thread, I was present when my classmate kicked one of these nuns down a flight of stairs because she took a swing at him. He provoked her, she reared back, he kicked, she flew. He was a young punk but, also, he had had enough threats from her. She rapped her ruler across knuckes, which was painful but we could get over that. I was most afraid when she rapped her ruler across the desk in front of me. It was obscene and unnecessary. She did this to make a point with a student across the room. She would just hit the nearest desk, not the desk of the offender. One nun would come into the classroom and pull the other one out; they would confer in the hallway and then take one of us out into the hall or into another empty classroom to loom over us with Baltimore Catechism instruction laced with some ominous threat which was never discussed, but was conveyed with body language and tone of voice. This is when I was asked to choose between a rhinestone trinket and a crucifix because I had answered some questions correctly. I was a kid. I took the bauble. And in her mind I’m sure I had just paid for a ticket to hell.

What more do you want? These impressions are long-lasting. It’s not the stories; it’s the manner in which we were taught. The attitude, the violent undertone - having come from an alcoholic family, I had had all too much of it already. Why did I need to be exposed to it on a Saturday - my only day off from school and Church?

If this isn’t enough, if you cannot fathom how impressionable young kids are with matters of the afterlife, if you think I’m a g***amn liar, fine. That’s fine. Then we’re done.

L**
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Thank you for sharing.
 
elts1956 said:
Or gently whopped in the back of the head for talking during Mass. Oh, that’s right, that was Meryl Streep. Sorry I couldn’t resist. Did see a sister chase a boy out of the class room with a ruler once. Yeah, it did happen. Right in front of my eyes.
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Reminds me of a commedy routine from many years ago about a “ninja nun” who’s martial arts weapon of choice was a rosary…
 
limerick said:
**
What do you want? The nun was one of three in Northern Virginia who “taught” between 1960 and 1968. As I just mentioned 30 seconds ago on another thread, I was present when my classmate kicked one of these nuns down a flight of stairs because she took a swing at him. He provoked her, she reared back, he kicked, she flew. He was a young punk but, also, he had had enough threats from her. She rapped her ruler across knuckes, which was painful but we could get over that. I was most afraid when she rapped her ruler across the desk in front of me. It was obscene and unnecessary. She did this to make a point with a student across the room. She would just hit the nearest desk, not the desk of the offender. One nun would come into the classroom and pull the other one out; they would confer in the hallway and then take one of us out into the hall or into another empty classroom to loom over us with Baltimore Catechism instruction laced with some ominous threat which was never discussed, but was conveyed with body language and tone of voice. This is when I was asked to choose between a rhinestone trinket and a crucifix because I had answered some questions correctly. I was a kid. I took the bauble. And in her mind I’m sure I had just paid for a ticket to hell.

What more do you want? These impressions are long-lasting. It’s not the stories; it’s the manner in which we were taught. The attitude, the violent undertone - having come from an alcoholic family, I had had all too much of it already. Why did I need to be exposed to it on a Saturday - my only day off from school and Church?

If this isn’t enough, if you cannot fathom how impressionable young kids are with matters of the afterlife, if you think I’m a g***amn liar, fine. That’s fine. Then we’re done.

L**
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This sounds familiar to how I was taught in second grade. My teacher was an older woman, not a nun, though her gorgeous granddaughter did become a nun while I was in school there. She had what we called an apple cruncher, a long stick with a little wooden apple on the end, that she would smack against the desk of anyone not paying attention or who gave an obviously wrong answer, etc. She rather frightened me while I was her student, but as soon as I graduated from her class, and befriended her otherwise, I learned that she was a very nice, cheerful woman, she just happened to be very strict and disciplinary with her students.

My fourth grade teacher was also very extreme, and violent, and a number of us went home with various wounds - I myself was practically strangled by the man on a field trip. Of course, he wasn’t a brother, or a priest, just a very short-tempered man stuck in a place in his life he wanted nothing to do with. He was even rather agreeable outside of the classroom, so long as he wasn’t upset. We were the only class he ever taught at our school, and we felt rather betrayed for a while to have had to deal with him, but as we grew up, we learned it hadn’t been the school’s fault that any of it had happened, and we got over it.

There were those nuns that ran the retirement home my grandmother lived in during her final twenty years or so of life. They were my first real close-up look at nuns, and they rather frightened me since I rarely saw them happy. In fact, the only time I really did manage to see them is when they caught me climbing the trees in the orchard and they’d chase me out. But hey, if you were seventy-five trying to protect something from a pack of hooligan under-fifteen kids time and time again, you’d probably get frustrated and angry, too. It wasn’t until I grew older and learned to read the emotions and intention out of people’s voices and actions that I saw how beautiful and sweet those old ladies were.

And now I have the pleasure of living in a place with an order of nuns in which the founding mother of the order is under fifty, and all of the women are even younger, and every last one of them are happier than anyone you’ll ever meet. Every person is unique, every action could easily have more than one explanation and is easily misinterpreted as a child. The misdeeds of one person cannot account for the nature of an entire group of people, let alone the intention of a faith.

===

And before it’s said, no, I’m not going back on my word. I didn’t say I’d be withdrawing from this thread, just that line of conversation. Thanks for those who defended me, I appreciate it immensely.
 
FanChan said:
This sounds familiar to how I was taught in second grade. My teacher was an older woman, not a nun, though her gorgeous granddaughter did become a nun while I was in school there. She had what we called an apple cruncher, a long stick with a little wooden apple on the end, that she would smack against the desk of anyone not paying attention or who gave an obviously wrong answer, etc. She rather frightened me while I was her student, but as soon as I graduated from her class, and befriended her otherwise, I learned that she was a very nice, cheerful woman, she just happened to be very strict and disciplinary with her students.

My fourth grade teacher was also very extreme, and violent, and a number of us went home with various wounds - I myself was practically strangled by the man on a field trip. Of course, he wasn’t a brother, or a priest, just a very short-tempered man stuck in a place in his life he wanted nothing to do with. He was even rather agreeable outside of the classroom, so long as he wasn’t upset. We were the only class he ever taught at our school, and we felt rather betrayed for a while to have had to deal with him, but as we grew up, we learned it hadn’t been the school’s fault that any of it had happened, and we got over it.

There were those nuns that ran the retirement home my grandmother lived in during her final twenty years or so of life. They were my first real close-up look at nuns, and they rather frightened me since I rarely saw them happy. In fact, the only time I really did manage to see them is when they caught me climbing the trees in the orchard and they’d chase me out. But hey, if you were seventy-five trying to protect something from a pack of hooligan under-fifteen kids time and time again, you’d probably get frustrated and angry, too. It wasn’t until I grew older and learned to read the emotions and intention out of people’s voices and actions that I saw how beautiful and sweet those old ladies were.

And now I have the pleasure of living in a place with an order of nuns in which the founding mother of the order is under fifty, and all of the women are even younger, and every last one of them are happier than anyone you’ll ever meet. Every person is unique, every action could easily have more than one explanation and is easily misinterpreted as a child. The misdeeds of one person cannot account for the nature of an entire group of people, let alone the intention of a faith.

===

And before it’s said, no, I’m not going back on my word. I didn’t say I’d be withdrawing from this thread, just that line of conversation. Thanks for those who defended me, I appreciate it immensely.
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Things are much worse in many government run schools with the rampant violence and real child abuse.
 
Dear Folks,

Reading this you are fortunate as I to have been born and one day you may be also as I, an old folk.
About the question"Anybody out their “pro-choice”? My answer is a resounding YES, WE ARE ALL PRO-CHOICE. No one, I hope, is forcing you to read this. You have made the choice to be here wherever here is and spend your time doing what you do. Choice’s great and so is the sine qua non of our every choice: Life. I hope that your life, aver that my life, and hope that all lives are, remain or become gifts to you, me, each other and believe that when they are holy, they are gifts to The Sine Qua Non. Amen.
In this post’s signature block is or should be a link to maafa21.com. Failing that you will know what to do to learn one of the anti-life purposes of anti-choice, pro-abortionists.
If you will spend the 7 - 21 minutes in the Trailers, please answer this post with your own and
 
limerick said:
**
Two wrongs, dude.

Limerick**
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Unlike you I find nothing wrong with a teacher maintaining order in the classrooms It is unfortunate that you have had past issues that have twisted your perception of this. My post was not to say that because there is violence in government run schools, that would excuse violence in other schools. My post was to say that violence and assault are the true wrongs, not teachers giving students harsh looks or speaking with harsh tones or smacking a desk with a ruler.

By the way, Where is the so called pro choice crowd when it comes to parents who choose to put their kids in private schools. I know that the suposed pro choice party is against school choice.
 
limerick said:
**You’re right, FanChan, I do not understand why, when Purgatory was already in place, Christ had to gather up everyone’s wrongdoings and be hanged on a cross to redeem every sinner. Isn’t that two solutions to one big problem? Why two? **
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You may recall from your catechism lessons that when Adam and Eve ate of the apple, the gates of Heaven were closed. No one could enter because the price of redemption from that first sin had not been paid, and other sins accumulated.

Through Christ’s suffering, the gates of Heaven were opened and the redemption paid for our sins, past, present, and future. The way I explain this is like this: a man buys several tickets to a play and gives them out to his friends. They may or may not show up, but he has paid for their tickets; there is a place waiting for them.

In the same way, you could say that Christ bought our tickets to heaven. What we do with those tickets is up to us.

Altho our sins are forgiven in Confession, that doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t have to go to Purgatory; it just means that we won’t have to go to Hell. There may still be some expiation or reparation that we need to make.

You may ask, but didn’t Christ die for our sins? Yes, but there are generally two parts to a sin. If I stole a watch from someone, I might go and ask for his forgiveness, and he might forgive me, but there would still be the matter of the missing watch, right? if I were unable to return the watch, then I would have to pay him some money or in some other way make right what I have done, no?

It is that part of the sin which is apart from what needs to be forgiven for which God has graciously granted us Purgatory. However, that purgation is extremely painful, so God permits us to perform the expiation on earth, where it is less painful and more efficacious, primarily in the forms of prayer, fasting, almsgiving, and accepting our crosses. What we do not accomplish on earth we must do in Purgatory.
**What if we embrace His grace and redemption through avenues other than or in addition to Catholicism? Are we still entitled to be saved? … …Do Catholics get front row seats in Heaven and all others get the cheap seats? I’m not attempting humor here, nor am I trying to offend - I just can’t think of a more graphic way to ask my question.
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Please don’t read bitterness into my posts where I’ve only meant to convey mild disdain.
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Limerick **
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Whether or not we are visibly united to the Church on earth is not connected to “where” we end up in Heaven. All that matters is the state of one’s soul.

If you were going to go on a trip to visit someone who might leave you $5 million, there would be a few things that you would want. You’d probably want directions. You’d want fuel. And you’d probably want to look nice when you arrived.

Without those things, your trip would be much harder. If you didn’t know the right way to get there, you might get lost and maybe even arrive at the wrong place altogether! If you had no fuel, you might not finish the race! And if you hadn’t worked on it, you might show up looking like a bum and not be recognized.

God will judge the state of each individual soul. I *personally *believe that some Catholics will be surprised at the number of those who did not seem united with the Church in Heaven, and at the relative fewness (?) of those who were visibly Catholic on earth, at least if we are expecting a Heaven. The Church has speculated as to how this can be, but from our human point of view, the only way we *know *that offers a chance of getting into Heaven is the way Christ taught us: being a faithful Catholic. God is not bound by those rules, and we see that the Church does not teach that any person or group is in Hell (only that there are souls in Hell), nor does the Church forbid us to pray for the souls of those not visibly united with the Church who have died.

But what we have to remember is that for those not visibly united to the Church, 1. it would be *much harder *to attain Heaven due to the lack of knowledge and the lack of sacraments; and 2. it is *not *the norm.
Yes, I am for choice - what if I choose Lutheranism and lead a clean and moral life?
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This, tho, is the thing. A person can lead an apparently “clean and moral life” and not make it–you yourself have alluded to seeing people who to the outward world seemed ok and yet underneath they were not. What a person needs is a *soul *which is acceptable to God, a soul which has reflected the love of God outwards for the sake of God. The soul must be alive in God. Christ Himself said that to whom much is given, much is expected, so we see that just because a person follows society’s rules does not mean he or she is growing *supernaturally. *
 
limerick said:
***Now, here’s a post that exemplifies presumption. ***

Where’s your tally of the many people you have converted? Is it in “My Documents”, all neatly alphabetized with smiley faces according to how quickly your converts adopted your viewpoint, all fresh and loving?

You know, Eddie Mac, you have absolutely no idea how many rusty hangers and knitting needles I have stacked up in my closet, just waiting for one of those naive, little, trembling pubescents to fall away from the “huddle” and volunteer to have her uterus perforated in order that that nothing-but-a-blob might just be expelled onto the carpet. I have mercy, E.M.! I’ll give her some of my stash of Oxycodone to get her over the first difficult day or two. And then I’ll add her to my own list, in “My Documents”, all neatly alphabetized with smiley faces according to how quickly she succumbed to my undeniable power to persuade her to discard her own moral code for mine: my unfathomably evil “moral code”.

By the way, we pump fists and chest slam DURING each procedure. Get hip.
*
Over the top ridiculous deserves response in kind.*

Limerick
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L,

I am not presumptuous in my statement that there are many pro-death individuals who are now pro-life. Ever hear of Jane Roe?

I never presumed that my prayers had anything to do with it. It would be nice, but that little bit of pride is not mine.

You as well do not have any notion of my background and my relationship with my close friends who have had up to three abortions.

You need serious help, both spiritually and mentally.

Eddie Mac
 
To whom much is given much is expected. Yes I do believe that Catholics who are chosen, such as the Martyrs to the Holy Faith, do sit closer to God’s Throne. That is fine with me. I will be so happy even if it is to wait on Him or to draw Him a cold glass of water.
Due to our graces given in our Church, such as the Eucharist, we are called to a higher expectation. This is an awesome and very frightful place to be, but here we are. Remember we will be judged all the harder as well if we reject the teachings of Christ as given to His Holy Church and guarded by our Holy Father who is the Rock - Peter.
So, to those who want to vent and run this is a humble opinion by one who loves the Holy Faith of Christ, the Catholic Church and will never run from this truth.
God be with you Limerick and all who are not open to hearing the truth of the fullness of faith.
 
Eddie_Mac said:
L,

I am not presumptuous in my statement that there are many pro-death individuals who are now pro-life. Ever hear of Jane Roe?

I never presumed that my prayers had anything to do with it. It would be nice, but that little bit of pride is not mine.

You as well do not have any notion of my background and my relationship with my close friends who have had up to three abortions.

You need serious help, both spiritually and mentally.

Eddie Mac
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Well if you’re so gifted, why haven’t you helped me?

Limerick
 
“To whom much is given much is expected.”

**That answers my question.

Some are given little. Some are given nothing.

I guess their struggles to just keep existing is what must “please” God.

Limerick**
 
limerick said:
“To whom much is given much is expected.”

**That answers my question.

Some are given little. Some are given nothing.

I guess their struggles to just keep existing is what must “please” God.

Limerick**
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Who do you think has hurt you in this life? Was it God or was it people who were not acting in accord with God’s will?
 
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