Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

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Eddie_Mac said:
Anyone here expect governments that want to keep killing babies to publish anything different? That is proof of nothing. That is from the same government that now wants to counsel the elderly so they can euthanize them.

Please stop.

Eddie Mac
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If God should rain fire and death upon us, we will richly deserve it for such flagrant disregard of His laws. However, I pray for His Mercy.
 
GodLovesTheSpek said:
Whew! Approaching 100 pages. Has any one changed their mind one way or the other, has anyone learned anything or are they just getting battered and bruised?

Kind of reminds me of a classic scene from the western movie The Big Country (1958). Ranch foreman Charleton Heston publicly insults Eastern gentleman Gregory Peck’s honor and challenges him to a fight. Gregory Peck chooses not do defend his honor publicly and refuses the fight. In the middle of night Peck visits Heston’s sleeping quarters and then challenges him to the fight Heston wanted. The brash, tough, young Heston thinks he going to whip this older, gentleman in a minute. The two go outside and it becomes quickly established that Peck is a skilled fighter. Both proceed to beat the living snot out of each other alone in the darkness of night. They both keep getting up and both keep swinging. It goes on and on. Painfully.

Eventually, both combatants, exhausted, bloody and spitting out bits of grass mutually agree to stop the fight. No honor defended or lost, just a tiring, brutal fist fight. Honor has nothing to do with fists. Peck’s parting words were “What did we prove? Huh?”

Ready to stop swinging with useless fists and unheeded words?

The misinformed have been informed. As Catholics that is our loving duty to our brothers and sisters that we must do. Having done so it is now up to them as to what to do. This is not a fight of fists, it isn’t even a fight of words. It’s a supernatural fight. Want to win? It will take supernatural means, prayer, to win this fight. Pray for abortions to end. Pray for Limerick. Pray for all who support and permit abortions to know the Truth and do His will. Pray. Never stop praying. Go to mass, offer up mass. Just do it and The Liar will not prevail.
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early on in the exchange there were some valuable insights and a few potential lights comming on for some participants.
 
Eddie_Mac said:
Nope. Won’t do it. Won’t stop. Not until the babies stop dying. Our future as a civilization, as a society depends on it. We are spiraling downward into the dark pit, killing our children by the millions. Human sacrifice. Sacrificing our babies to the idol of humanism, the worship of self.

Eddie Mac
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Amen! May God have mercy on us!
 
WillieWonka said:
Therefore, if delayed ensoulment is the case, the fetus lacks a soul before ensoulment and is not human.
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Please read what I wrote. Life Force = Soul Soul = Life Force. This is what I believe.

Question: When does the soul leave the body? When is a person “dead”? Lifeless?
 
Eddie_Mac said:
Nope. Won’t do it. Won’t stop. Not until the babies stop dying. Our future as a civilization, as a society depends on it. We are spiraling downward into the dark pit, killing our children by the millions. Human sacrifice. Sacrificing our babies to the idol of humanism, the worship of self.

Eddie Mac
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nice to find someone pro-life around here…

but uh… what are your thoughts on Roeder… What crime is he guilty of in the eyes of God, do you think??

i already know what he is guilty of in the eyes of the world… seemingly…

murder… :rolleyes:
 
God is pro-choice … He gave us freedom to do whatever we want…

however if society wants to do as God and give everyone freedom to do whatever he wants…

that’s called anarchy…

for some strange reason it has never worked out too well… :whacky::banghead::hmmm::coffeeread:
 
distracted said:
God is pro-choice … He gave us freedom to do whatever we want…

however if society wants to do as God and give everyone freedom to do whatever he wants…

that’s called anarchy…

for some strange reason it has never worked out too well… :whacky::banghead::hmmm::coffeeread:
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Actually He didn’t give us freedom to do whatever we want. We were not to eat of tree of knowledge or touch it lest we die. True freedom has limits. We had it but we were deceived and we failed.

He did give us free will.

The ability to do whatever one willfully desires is license. Taking the license to do whatever one wills (licentiousness) is the path to slavery.
 
GodLovesTheSpek said:
Actually He didn’t give us freedom to do whatever we want. We were not to eat of tree of knowledge or touch it lest we die. True freedom has limits. We had it but we were deceived and we failed.

He did give us free will.

The ability to do whatever one willfully desires is license. Taking the license to do whatever one wills (licentiousness) is the path to slavery.
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uh… the term splitting hairs comes to mind…

seems to come down to exactly the same thing…
 
the point is… just because God gives us freedom to do Whatever doesn’t mean the governemtn should…

we are not allowedd to kill adults (although the day will come…:eek:.)

so why do we have the “right” … to kill our children?
 
Not splitting hairs. The Liar would have us think freedom and license is the same thing. True, authentic freedom resides with God. License belongs to The Murderer.

The point of the reply is to get the terminology correct.

One of the reasons we have slogans such as “freedom to choose” instead of “license to choose” is the misappropriation of words.

Freedom is now confused with license. Clever trick by The Deceiver.

“What, take away my freedom to choose?” has been the rallying cry for abortionist for decades.

One was never “free to choose”.

Catholics need to get it right.
 
distracted said:
nice to find someone pro-life around here…

but uh… what are your thoughts on Roeder… What crime is he guilty of in the eyes of God, do you think??

i already know what he is guilty of in the eyes of the world… seemingly…

murder… :rolleyes:
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That was on another thread.

I think that the unborn should be defended and one day they will be. The present time is not the time. When it is time then the world will see the almighty power of God serving His justice up upon those who support, condone, perform, defend, finance, the killing of the unborn, and soon the elderly, the sick, the unneeded.

I am looking for other ways to contribute to the cause in the most effective way.

My opinion of Roeder? Innocent until proven guilty in the secular courts, If he repents, is saved by the Blood of Christ.

That is all I am saying on this thread at this time.

Eddie Mac
 
distracted said:
uh… the term splitting hairs comes to mind…

seems to come down to exactly the same thing…
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God gave us free will AND a conscience. They go together in order to allow us to initiate action in a way that animals cannot.
 
elts1956 said:
Please read what I wrote. Life Force = Soul Soul = Life Force. This is what I believe.

Question: When does the soul leave the body? When is a person “dead”? Lifeless?
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I acknowledge that is what you believe. It is not what the Church teaches, but it is not contrary to what the Church teaches.

I don’t know when the soul leaves the body. I don’t know when a person is dead or lifeless. But, for those who hold a person has an immortal soul, how can they ever be lifeless? Does the person dies? What does the Church say?
 
WillieWonka said:
I acknowledge that is what you believe. It is not what the Church teaches, but it is not contrary to what the Church teaches.

I don’t know when the soul leaves the body. I don’t know when a person is dead or lifeless. But, for those who hold a person has an immortal soul, how can they ever be lifeless? Does the person dies? What does the Church say?
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Do you think the soul remains in a body declared dead? What causes the body to be alive? Given, the soul is eternal, but that is another form of life without the body. So when does the body become alive? So if you don’t know when the soul leaves the body, why is it wrong to kill someone who is alive?
 
Perhaps it helps to remember the body is the temple of the soul.We are both body and soul .Remember the old saying that we should be more afraid of those who could kill the soul than those who could kill the body precisely because the body has a finite existence; we will all die one day but the soul is destined for eternal life or eternal damnation.
As for why we are not free to kill the body.Well it is one of the commandments God has given us
“Thou shalt not kill”
and taking a deliberate action to end the life of an innocent human being who is not threatening your very life or that of other innocent people is againgst God’s Law.
It is God who gives life and God who ends it.Sometimes this can be a difficult command to keep when someone we love has an awful illness and in this situation we can turn to Our Blessed Lady for strength and comfort She had to watch Her Son suffer and knew He was innocent of everything except love.
 
elts1956 said:
Do you think the soul remains in a body declared dead? What causes the body to be alive? Given, the soul is eternal, but that is another form of life without the body. So when does the body become alive? So if you don’t know when the soul leaves the body, why is it wrong to kill someone who is alive?
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I don’t know what life is. So, I sure don’t know how to be sure when it isn’t present. The body appears to carry the same life the egg had prior to conception.

We choose to live. Each of us manifests a self-preservation instinct. I observe the same instinct in all creatures. So, I band together with others who like to live. We ban murder because we like life.
 
WillieWonka said:
I don’t know what life is. So, I sure don’t know how to be sure when it isn’t present. The body appears to carry the same life the egg had prior to conception.

We choose to live. Each of us manifests a self-preservation instinct. I observe the same instinct in all creatures. So, I band together with others who like to live. We ban murder because we like life.
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If you don’t know what life is, when it begins, or ends, then why argue about it? It is an unknown other than knowing through observation whether something/someone is alive, or dead…
 
elts1956 said:
If you don’t know what life is, when it begins, or ends, then why argue about it? It is an unknown other than knowing through observation whether something/someone is alive, or dead…
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I’m not arguing. Are you? I’m discussing. I don’t need to know what life is to read Church teachings. It’s not that hard.

What is life?
 
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