Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

[elts1956]

**
Are you thoroughly unconcerned with, say, the father in this matter? I endorse choice for the father, as well.

Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick**

According to the present POTUS, there is no baby, even if almost full term, if it has a chance of surviving outside the womb. The very legalistic mind set is if the “intention” is abortion, then abortion it must be, no matter the gestational development of the child. The ability to see a reality which is not reality This is still considered an abortion because the woman’s “intention” is to abort her child.

What would you say to such an action? The child, whether “birthed”, or “aborted”, still has many years until s/he can legally vote. Isn’t it an insane law that protects a human because of a possible future ability to vote? Or would the reason be the possible future ability to join the work force in order to support the hive, the possible future ability of any contribution to “society”? etc. Are these reasons +, the only reasons to preserve humanity before and after birth? You tell me, what gives dignity to our form of life, that other forms do not have?

 

[Eddie_Mac]

**
Use your free will to climb down from that pedestal, where you spout off “facts” as if you are God’s own PR rep.

Please.**

Limerick

First of all please note that I personally follow the Divine Mercy devotional of St. Faustina. See my signature link. I know a few things about Divine Mercy and I promote this devotion because I believe in God’s Mercy. It’s the cornerstone of my own personal salvation plan.

Secondly, you need to understand that EVERYONE is judged. There is no escaping it. If in your judgement by God it has been revealed that you have not shown mercy to others in your life - you will not be shown God’s Mercy. In the latter case, your sentence will be completely fair and rendered according to your works and deeds. But if you have unforgiven mortal sins - you go to hell. If you have serious faults and imperfections arising from prior forgiven sins that were not overcome in life but have no unforgiven grave sins you are given a sentence in purgatory. This purgatory sentence is very exacting and will require you to atone and perfect every single fault of forgiven sins (both moral and venial) that you did not adequately repent for and offset through penance in your life.

This is why doing indulgences is extremely important because the Saints have revealed to us that sin is so offensive to God’s presence and His Justice that it can take considerable penance to offset the temporal debts for even small venial sins (previously forgiven or forgiven automatically as a condition of accepting our death passion as just).

If on the other hand you have shown considerable Mercy to others in your life AND you have not died impenetent (unrepentant grave sins) then, yes, appeals to Mercy are unconditional and you will be given unfathomable Mercy. God will considerably reduce your purgatory time (perhaps even set it aside at His discretion) and not be so exacting in his judgement of you. But remember - Purgatory IS a manifestation of God’s Mercy. This is not to say however that if you have committed mortal sins and died impenetent and not responded to God’s Mercy in your hour of death that you will be forgiven of your mortal sins. One must not reject God’s Mercy!

This is the thing that most people do not get. Those who die impenetent in mortal sin are so alienated from God that at death when the veil of the sensual world is lifted and we are in a pure spiritual state the soul acts out of its own true nature (either Good or Evil). An evil soul so immersed in a life of unrepentant sin simply can not and will not on its own accept God’s Mercy owing to its own self pride. That is, in the presence of God’s unfathomable holiness an impenetent soul judges itself in self-pride as utterly and shamefully naked (like Adam in the garden after he sinned) and sees itself to be completely unworthy of God. It becomes to itself a creature so self loathing and despicable that it scorns itself and despairs (as did Judas). It flees God’s Holiness to hide in the only place open to it - hell. This soul can not imagine to appeal to God’s Mercy since it has sentenced itself through pride that God could never be so Merciful to forgive it; thus is severs itself from Mercy. On the other hand, if a friend(s) at the deathbed of such a gravely ill soul prays the Divine Mercy Chaplet for it we are told that God’s Mercy will flood such a soul with Merciful grace so unfathomable that before its final disposition it will be able to accept the invitation to Mercy, somehow supernaturally regret and repent of its sins and escape hell.

St. Faustina reveals to us that in the moments of death God out of His Mercy calls each soul 3 final times to appeal to His Mercy (e.g. recollect Peter being asked 3 times by Jesus if he loved Him after Peter has previously denied Him 3 times). If the soul does not respond, and for the aforementioned reasons very many will not, those in mortal sin are condemned to hell. Those that accept Mercy will be given Mercy in accordance with the Divine and unfathomable reconciliation of God’s Justice with His Mercy.

Mercy wins out over Justice for those that can and will appeal to it
.
James

I certainly hope that this fine gentleman does not mind me using his post from another thread.

Eddie Mac

 

[limerick]

Who is arguing numbers? Dead is dead. Aborted babies 100% dead unless by some miscalculation a child, who can survive outside the womb, survives.

I don’t recall asking you. This was another poster’s corner to weasel out of.

Limerick

 

[limerick]

I certainly hope that this fine gentleman does not mind me using his post from another thread.

Eddie Mac

You first use it and then you ask? Don’t the moderators and administrators on this forum look way down on borrowing posts from another thread to prop up one’s own view?

Seems like the rules have changed.

L

 

[limerick]

Really, when dic congress pass it and the president sign it? When did the states ratify it. That is the only way we get laws in this country.
Instead in this situation you have a hand full of non elected individuals averting the law.

Yet, the option to see and have an abortion stands. I obviously didn’t vote for it if none of us did.

L

 

[Eddie_Mac]

I don’t recall asking you. This was another poster’s corner to weasel out of.

Limerick

Not quite as bad as killing babies though, is it?

Eddie Mac

 

[elts1956]

**
Are you thoroughly unconcerned with, say, the father in this matter? I endorse choice for the father, as well.

Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick**

I don’t recall asking you. This was another poster’s corner to weasel out of.

Limerick

So this is now a personal forum between thee and s/he?

 

[Eddie_Mac]

You first use it and then you ask? Don’t the moderators and administrators on this forum look way down on borrowing posts from another thread to prop up one’s own view?

Seems like the rules have changed.

L

Bad form maybe, but not as bad as killing babies.

Eddie Mac

 

[limerick]

But you feel the law should protect your life but not that of a child. Why?

And enough with the semantics bs of You didn’t use those exact words.

Here are my exact words: the law protects my life insofar as it can. The law currently does not protect an embryo or a fetus from being sucked out, cut out, or dragged out of a woman’s uterus. I don’t make the law. I do not vote anymore.

You think my calling you on putting words in my mouth is BS? Then you and I are done here.

Limerick

 

[elts1956]

Unspeakable.

There is no defense for abortion. I don’t think you will be able to spin the truth that a baby is a baby from conception, not a fetus.

At one point, someone graciously ‘allowed’ you to be born. Yet you wish to stand in the way of the rights of others who seek only that same ‘privilege?’ Equally unspeakable.

Limerick isn’t overtly standing in the way of the rights of others. The “rights” simply do not exist. Now that is sad.

 

[limerick]

So this is now a personal forum between thee and s/he?

**It matters not. We are now divorced.

L**

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

It is no pedestal of our creation. The Truth is not of our making. Through our own devices fueled by the Lies of The Deceiver, our concepts of Truth would be hopelessly flawed. Once Truth revealed by Him to us and known we are obligated to follow the Truth and attempt to introduce it to those it has not been revealed. To those that much has been given, more will be required. Some of us have been blessed with the revelation of Truth and the ability to grasp what is needed to enter His house. Still, our lives are not over. Even with all some have been given it is still possible to lose it all: we can still reject it, we can encourage others to reject it, we can cause others still to just merely doubt it. Nevertheless, we will have to answer for it. Our cleverness cannot save us.

You most certainly don’t have to take our word for it. We only do our best to bear witness and lead those to the Truth as we are called to do. Visit vatican.va, read the encyclicals, read the catecism. This is Truth that has been revealed to us and it is for all.

Some will reject it, some will accept it, some will make fun of it, some will grapple with it. We can sympathize. While we run around the Earth and spin webs of Lies, mock the Truth and reject Beauty and Wisdom, these is still hope, there is mercy and there is forgiveness. Forgiveness for all. Forgiveness for everything. Forgiveness at the last moment of natural life.

Then at death everything changes. It is, like it not, the realization of Truth and Justice, the revelation of all that is Good and Right. Judgment awaits. Not our Judgment, His Judgment. It will be swift, it will Honest, it will be Just, it will be Right, it will not be up for debate and it will be forever.

This may seem like arguing, it may seem harsh, it may seem undemocratic and unfair. In the end it is done out of Love to save another victim of the horror of abortion.

**
Use your free will to climb down from that pedestal, where you spout off “facts” as if you are God’s own PR rep.

Please.**

Limerick

 

[limerick]

Bad form maybe, but not as bad as killing babies.

Eddie Mac

**Yeah, Eddie, I just woke up one day and said, “Golly, gee, this is such a gosh darn fantabulous day … think I’ll go kill my kid. Then it won’t look so bad when I rip off somebody else’s intellectual property.”

I’d prefer your words, not someone else’s. Quotes to support a point are one thing; a complete post from another thread, by another person is another. It skews the dialogue.

Limerick**

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I will give you sixty million dollars if you can show me any place on any thread on this entire forum where I specifically wrote that I have more of a right to exist than any fetus whose mother is considering abortion.

Limerick

Unborn baby. Words have meaning.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

**Yeah, Eddie, I just woke up one day and said, “Golly, gee, this is such a gosh darn fantabulous day … think I’ll go kill my kid. Then it won’t look so bad when I rip off somebody else’s intellectual property.”

I’d prefer your words, not someone else’s. Quotes to support a point are one thing; a complete post from another thread, by another person is another. It skews the dialogue.

Limerick**

I put it in my words first. You told me to get off my pedestal. You are not wanting to discuss anything, you are the one answering posts with personal jabs. I just responded in kind.

Eddie Mac

 

[teak421]

**Yeah, Eddie, I just woke up one day and said, “Golly, gee, this is such a gosh darn fantabulous day … think I’ll go kill my kid. Then it won’t look so bad when I rip off somebody else’s intellectual property.”

I’d prefer your words, not someone else’s. Quotes to support a point are one thing; a complete post from another thread, by another person is another. It skews the dialogue.

Limerick**

Looking back, do you think it was a good decision?

• Michael

 

[limerick]

Unborn baby. Words have meaning.

First, what does your haiku declaration have to do my quote that you selected and placed in a box? Nothing. Nothing.

Now. Yes, words do have meaning.

Fetus: “The young in the womb of viviparous animals, in the later stages of development; specifically, in women, from the end of the second month, prior to which it is called the ‘embryo’; unborn offspring.”*

A baby is a human being after birth - or a 6 1/2 ounce bottle for champagne, also known as a split. You want to split hairs over that? Do it alone.

Go ahead. Jerk me around with semantics. It won’t bring me that fluffy epiphany you so hope will descend upon me. I’m for choice and I’m in it for the long haul.

• Britannica World Language Edition of Funk and Wagnalls New Practical Standard Dictionary

Limerick

 

[limerick]

I put it in my words first. You told me to get off my pedestal. You are not wanting to discuss anything, you are the one answering posts with personal jabs. I just responded in kind.

Eddie Mac

**I love it when they step back.

L**

 

[limerick]

Looking back, do you think it was a good decision?

• Michael

**It was a good decision because it was my only option. That does not mean I have no regrets.

L**

 

[Eddie_Mac]

**I love it when they step back.

L**

I truly do not understand you. Enjoy your world.

Eddie Mac