Anyone been to a meeting?

[Jaded27]

Re: Changes-
A site that features nothing but quotes from WT publications (some pics, too):
quotes.watchtower.ca/

WT Magazine reprints - 1879-1916 online:
agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/links.htm

Works of CT Russell online:
heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/Russell.htm

I gotta ask what this has to do with going to a meeting? This is a perfectly positive conversation. I don’t see why we have to get into the “evils” of the watchtower society and “all the mistakes” they’ve made. Can’t we just stay on topic here? Thanks.

 

[At_His_Feet]

Hi Jaded: The reason I posted that stuff is because the question had come up in the thread, and was being discussed, as to whether or not there have been changes in JW doctine. I tried not to throw in my own observations, but only provide links so that a person could check it out themselves.

 

[Jaded27]

At His Feet:

Hi Jaded: The reason I posted that stuff is because the question had come up in the thread, and was being discussed, as to whether or not there have been changes in JW doctine. I tried not to throw in my own observations, but only provide links so that a person could check it out themselves.

Okay.

 

[b_justb]

Jaded,

Why is it that when people in the forum point out inconsistencies in JW teachings over time you become so inflamed? OK, that’s a dumb question. It’s because you are personally insulted or feel affronted whenever anyone does, or so I think. I may be incorrect here.

As we’ve spoken of in the past; it is not what you or I believe, or feel, that matters. Truth is what matters. If the JW’s have made mistakes in the past, like predictions of the dates of Armageddon for example, wouldn’t it be best if the JW’s just admitted it and give the reasons for their error; rather than trying to hide it or explain it away?

I think everyone makes mistakes, it’s what a person does after that mistake that shows his character the most.

 

[Jaded27]

b_justb:

Jaded,

Why is it that when people in the forum point out inconsistencies in JW teachings over time you become so inflamed? OK, that’s a dumb question. It’s because you are personally insulted or feel affronted whenever anyone does, or so I think. I may be incorrect here.

I didn’t become inflamed. I didn’t agree that this was the topic to be posting that stuff in. And after they explained I said, and I quote, “okay”. Where is the “upset” in that post??

b_justb:

As we’ve spoken of in the past; it is not what you or I believe, or feel, that matters. Truth is what matters. If the JW’s have made mistakes in the past, like predictions of the dates of Armageddon for example, wouldn’t it be best if the JW’s just admitted it and give the reasons for their error; rather than trying to hide it or explain it away?

Who says we don’t and haven’t done that? When people harp on things, however, they do not want to know the truth. They want to pick something apart.

b_justb:

I think everyone makes mistakes, it’s what a person does after that mistake that shows his character the most.

And the JWs as a religion have made it through all that and are still going strong and growing. Good for us. Can we get back on topic now?

 

[b_justb]

I thought the thread was on going to the JW meetings, yes? As you know I am a former JW; raised in it from age 3 to 18. So, I went to many meetings. I did not hear in these meetings about the various incorrect predictions by the Society on the date of Armageddon. I learned of those historical facts after leaving. Now I did leave over 20 years ago, so it very well may be that the JW’s have included this aspect into their Ministry School (or whatever it may be called to date) to be honest I simply just don’t know. But I do recall the date of 1975 being tossed about as a possible Armageddon date but also to be honest I think the HQ in NY never officially said anything about 1975 other than something about it being the 6000 year mark of human creation, or something similar.

Again this is about the meetings, yes?

 

[Jaded27]

b_justb:

I thought the thread was on going to the JW meetings, yes? As you know I am a former JW; raised in it from age 3 to 18. So, I went to many meetings. I did not hear in these meetings about the various incorrect predictions by the Society on the date of Armageddon. I learned of those historical facts after leaving. Now I did leave over 20 years ago, so it very well may be that the JW’s have included this aspect into their Ministry School (or whatever it may be called to date) to be honest I simply just don’t know. But I do recall the date of 1975 being tossed about as a possible Armageddon date but also to be honest I think the HQ in NY never officially said anything about 1975 other than something about it being the 6000 year mark of human creation, or something similar.

Again this is about the meetings, yes?

No. What you’re talking about is the information BEHIND the meetings. Every thread where I try in the slightest to defend my beliefs you have to jump on and present “evidence” against them. I have heard of the date changes AT the meetings, yes. But that does not have to do with the basics of what goes on at a meeting or if any of you have ever been to one.

The question is “ever been to a meeting”? So answer “yes, I was a former JW” and move on.

 

[b_justb]

Maybe a lighter side?

Tuesday evenings were the date for the JW meetings that met in private homes for an hour to study teachings as guidance provided by HQ in NY. As an example for the non-JW familiar: The JW’s print a lot of material for their adherents as well as for evangelization. A book would be put out for these weekly bible studies as an aid to explain various JW teachings. And then this book would be read, studied, question and answer period among the attendees of the meeting – you get the idea. Well, the Tuesday night meeting was held at my parents house pretty regularly. One night we’re having this meeting and Dad (who was overseeing the meeting) asked me who wrote the book of Jude? I was little, like 1st or 2nd grade. Put on the spot I froze and said I don’t know. He was calm and reassuring and he said, OK who is buried in Grant’s tomb? I was so puzzled and after a few moments I said, “Grant.” He said, “Right! Now wrote the book of Jude?” I was still perplexed and replied, “Well it sure wasn’t Grant.” The whole place just busted up laughing.

 

[Jaded27]

b_justb:

Maybe a lighter side?

Tuesday evenings were the date for the JW meetings that met in private homes for an hour to study teachings as guidance provided by HQ in NY. As an example for the non-JW familiar: The JW’s print a lot of material for their adherents as well as for evangelization. A book would be put out for these weekly bible studies as an aid to explain various JW teachings. And then this book would be read, studied, question and answer period among the attendees of the meeting – you get the idea. Well, the Tuesday night meeting was held at my parents house pretty regularly. One night we’re having this meeting and Dad (who was overseeing the meeting) asked me who wrote the book of Jude? I was little, like 1st or 2nd grade. Put on the spot I froze and said I don’t know. He was calm and reassuring and he said, OK who is buried in Grant’s tomb? I was so puzzled and after a few moments I said, “Grant.” He said, “Right! Now wrote the book of Jude?” I was still perplexed and replied, “Well it sure wasn’t Grant.” The whole place just busted up laughing.

Hahaha. I remember stuff like that. When I was like three I raised my hand to answer because they asked for the names of the apostles. Well, someone had already given my answer so everyone laughed. not to be mean, but cuz I was cute. I was so embarrassed I started crying right there. Everyone around me felt so bad. I laugh now, but it wasn’t so funny then.

My book study conductor for most of my life was my “big sister”'s dad. We were really close to the family. if my parents died they would have taken me in according to the will. So if he saw us kids goofing off in the back row he’d randomly call on us. Not to answer, but to read a scripture or something. Always woke us right up.

 

[scylla]

Isn’t no-one buried in Grant’s tomb? It’s a tomb! Grant and his wife are entombed there.

Unless you are referencing the old joke about this and I didn’t notice.

Anyways back to the topic, it is interesting.

Scylla

 

[b_justb]

scylla:

Isn’t no-one buried in Grant’s tomb? It’s a tomb! Grant and his wife are entombed there.

Unless you are referencing the old joke about this and I didn’t notice.

Anyways back to the topic, it is interesting.

Scylla

Maybe St. Jude is burried in Grant’s tomb?

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded,

During the meetings where you discuss a book printed by the Watchtower Society - are you free to raise your hand and disagree? Are you free to say, “You know… that’s what the society says… but I really don’t agree with that. In fact, I personally believe blah blah blah…”

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

Jaded,

During the meetings where you discuss a book printed by the Watchtower Society - are you free to raise your hand and disagree? Are you free to say, “You know… that’s what the society says… but I really don’t agree with that. In fact, I personally believe blah blah blah…”

You’re free to answer in your own words. that’s how you “make the truth your own”. But disagreements would just be to stumble others and you don’t need to do that in a public forum. You can do that with the elders in private. It’s not about what you may “personally believe” it’s about what’s true. The magazines we study are mass produced.They have truth in them if you only want to learn about it and find it. If you disagree with something in them you most likely aren’t a Witness.You might be studying in which case you can ask the witness you study with. And if you feel the need to disagree in a public way like that you are most likely an apostate who is simply looking to take others away from the truth.

This is basing it on the witnesses being right. I feel the need to point out in every post i mention this in that Catholics, Jews, Protestants, satanists, all that - all feel the same way. That their religion is right. So there’s nothing wrong in JWs expressing themselves that way.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

You’re free to answer in your own words. that’s how you “make the truth your own”. But disagreements would just be to stumble others and you don’t need to do that in a public forum. You can do that with the elders in private. It’s not about what you may “personally believe” it’s about what’s true. The magazines we study are mass produced.They have truth in them if you only want to learn about it and find it. If you disagree with something in them you most likely aren’t a Witness.You might be studying in which case you can ask the witness you study with. And if you feel the need to disagree in a public way like that you are most likely an apostate who is simply looking to take others away from the truth.

This is basing it on the witnesses being right. I feel the need to point out in every post i mention this in that Catholics, Jews, Protestants, satanists, all that - all feel the same way. That their religion is right. So there’s nothing wrong in JWs expressing themselves that way.

That is correct - as a Catholic I believe we are correct. And I can appreciate you feeling the same way about your religion. However, as a Catholic… I could read something that a Priest wrote - and say that I personally didin’t agree with that teaching. I could tell all of my friends - in fact, I could probably write a book that talked about why I disagreed with the teaching. The point is… I wouldn’t get kicked out of the Catholic Church. Do you have that same freedom? Or must you accept 100% every single thing the Watchtower says without ever saying you personally feel differently? Because who holds the Watchtower Society accountable if no one within the organization is able to question anything? And if the Society changes it’s mind time & time again and simply claims that “the light got brighter” - how do you know that’s true… and not just your leaders being able to manipulate your beliefs?

 

[Pug]

Jaded27:

I’m just wondering if any of you have ever actually taken the time to go to a meeting with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know I’ve taken the time to investigate and go to church a few times. So that I have a balanced view of religions besides my own.

So just wondering, anyone ever think to actually check it out?

I have gone to the religious services of several religions besides my own. I can’t go to them all! It doesn’t seem like a good use of my time.

Anyway, nothing in the descriptions of a Kingdom Hall service ever sounded “odd”, so I doubt there would be something bizarre there. They just sound like prayer, lecture, and bible study and stuff. I’ve seen that many places. So I don’t feel a need to visit and see for myself at Kingdom Hall.

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

That is correct - as a Catholic I believe we are correct. And I can appreciate you feeling the same way about your religion. However, as a Catholic… I could read something that a Priest wrote - and say that I personally didin’t agree with that teaching. I could tell all of my friends - in fact, I could probably write a book that talked about why I disagreed with the teaching. The point is… I wouldn’t get kicked out of the Catholic Church. Do you have that same freedom?

The priests shouldn’t be teaching anything that you would question.
Honestly? No, I woudl not want to belong to a religion that would let you write a book about some huge disagreement you have with them. You believe in it or you don’t.

“The truth is, I don’t really learn that much about your faith by asking questions like that, because those aren’t questions about faith; those are questions about religion. And it’s very important to understand the difference between religion and faith. Because faith is not about having the right answers. Faith is a feeling. Faith is a hunch, really. It’s a hunch that there is something bigger connecting it all, connecting us all together. And that feeling, that hunch, is God. And coming here tonight on your Sunday evening to connect with that feelings; that is an act of faith.”

Name that quote!

 

[Jaded27]

And by the way, my point above was not to get us completely off topic. Rather it was to point out that I do have faith. I also have faith in my religion and its teachings. That doesn’t just go away because of one thing you might question or look into.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

The priests shouldn’t be teaching anything that you would question.
Honestly? No, I woudl not want to belong to a religion that would let you write a book about some huge disagreement you have with them. You believe in it or you don’t.

“The truth is, I don’t really learn that much about your faith by asking questions like that, because those aren’t questions about faith; those are questions about religion. And it’s very important to understand the difference between religion and faith. Because faith is not about having the right answers. Faith is a feeling. Faith is a hunch, really. It’s a hunch that there is something bigger connecting it all, connecting us all together. And that feeling, that hunch, is God. And coming here tonight on your Sunday evening to connect with that feelings; that is an act of faith.”

Name that quote!

Priests aren’t infallable. Which is why I could respectfully disagree with one. I’m not saying this happens - but it could and my point is… I wouldn’t get kicked out of the Catholic Church for doing so.

Do you believe the people who publish the Watchtower literature are infallable? And are you free to disagree or question the teachings? Or would you get kicked out for doing so?

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

Priests aren’t infallable.

Neither is any human. And TWS is made up of humans. Henceforth and thusly. . .not perfect.
carol marie:

Do you believe the people who publish the Watchtower literature are infallable? And are you free to disagree or question the teachings? Or would you get kicked out for doing so?

1. not necessarily. but they publish the truth as far as a human’s limited knowledge of god will allow. more so than other religions.
2. I guess. never done it before.
3. no idea. maybe I’ll try it and see.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

Neither is any human. And TWS is made up of humans. Henceforth and thusly. . .not perfect.

1. not necessarily. but they publish the truth as far as a human’s limited knowledge of god will allow. more so than other religions.
2. I guess. never done it before.
3. no idea. maybe I’ll try it and see.

1. How do you know that what they publish is the “truth” - who are they to decide what is truth? And how do they reach their conclusions? Is it because they are very knowledgable in the Early Church - Hebrew, Greek etc? Or is it by some divine intervention that they are given “knowledge?”
2. I can appreciate that perhpaps you have never disagreed with a single teaching of the Watchtower. But since you’ve been going your entire life… have you EVER - in all your years of meetings seen a single person raise their hand and say, “I disagree with that particular paragraph… they way I see it is…” Or, have you ever had anyone (family member - friend - etc.) confess privately to you, that they disagree with something the Watchtower has printed? I can tell you that in all my years as a witness - it was UNTHINKABLE to disagree with anything the Society said. It just wasn’t done - ever. We had no right to question anything… we had to accept EVERYTHING that was said - everything printed. Because to question the Society would have been the same as questioning Jehovah Himself. That’s what we were told. And if we wanted to please Jehovah - we would obey the Society without hesitation. I heard this about 1,000 times:
   “When in doubt… do what the Society says…”

Which I suppose is all well & good if the Watchtower Society is Jehovah’s Spokesman on Earth. But what if they aren’t? So my question for you is… how do YOU know that the Society speaks for Jehovah? As we discussed in another thread… there isn’t a single prophecy they made that was fufilled. Not one. So what makes you think they are the “most right religion?”