Anyone called to be single?

[Stolen_Rutters]

I am single and 36, but I never felt called to be single.

It’s just a matter of me being an Engineer who didn’t have the social skills, or the motivation to overcome the lack of social skills until recently (in the past few years, I reverted too). I found out the only devout catholic woman I dated since then can’t stand kids, so I’m back to the drawing board, single and unattached.

A couple non-Catholic “Angelina Jolies” have shown interest in this “Elmer Fudd” (to take terminology from earlier in the thread) but I don’t think that would be allowed, so I have to be “just friends”. It would be nice if there were more single Catholic women in our town (at least who want kids).

Single in S.E. Michigan,
SR

 

[JohnnyReb]

I am single and 36, but I never felt called to be single.

It’s just a matter of me being an Engineer who didn’t have the social skills, or the motivation to overcome the lack of social skills until recently (in the past few years, I reverted too). I found out the only devout catholic woman I dated since then can’t stand kids, so I’m back to the drawing board, single and unattached.

A couple non-Catholic “Angelina Jolies” have shown interest in this “Elmer Fudd” (to take terminology from earlier in the thread) but I don’t think that would be allowed, so I have to be “just friends”. It would be nice if there were more single Catholic women in our town (at least who want kids).

Single in S.E. Michigan,
SR

I thought the spouse only had to agree to allow you to raise the kids Catholic? Am I wrong?

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

I thought the spouse only had to agree to allow you to raise the kids Catholic? Am I wrong?

I honestly don’t remember. I hadn’t thought that was an option. Shows what happens when you assume, eh?

Some background: I’m pretty new to this part of the teachings. You know that guy who can fix any electrical or mechanical contraption placed in front of him in under a half hour straight, but couldn’t put a sentence together when there was a woman in the room? That was me. Suffice it to say I had never honestly believed marriage was a possibility for me considering what I had to offer the fairer sex. I’ve grown alot since my 20s, though.

 

[Jessica_Girardi]

1 Corinthians 7:8-9

8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

A holy priest I know said that he did not think there was a call to the single life. I don’t mean to be depressing but I do trust him, he is a very wise man.

I would seriously get a second opinion on that!!! I am called to the single celebate life and it is scary that someday I may be all alone but with the Holy Ghost and with Jesus you are never really alone. I would say that for sure it is a valid and honorable calling and Priests are not infallable. Scoob.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

That’s true, priests are not infallible (If it helps, the Sisters in the room concurred ).

Was he wrong? Or maybe more discerning than others?

I wondered whether the priest was a celibate priest, and came to that wisdom over years of prayer and study, or whether the priest was a married priest. Either way, he may have been right. The poster seems to have reason to see this priest as both holy and wise, presumablly by his example and words over time. So who is to say he was wrong?

Michael
QUOTE]

He is celibate and middle-aged so has probably been a priest for 20 or 30 years. Thanks for your comment Michael. Of course he’s not infallible but I do trust him.

BarbaraTherese said:

Dear Michael…The Church recognizes the single state clearly as a vocation and call from God and a valid state in life spritually and hence theologically.

Could you provide some citations, BarbaraTherese?

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting NoPlaceLikeRome:

Could you provide some citations, BarbaraTherese?

I am only giving this one extract and as it is from a Papal Document I am hoping it will be sufficient :
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v3.html

**DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - **
LUMEN GENTIUM

.[11] In a different way, a similar example is given by widows and single people, who can also greatly contribute to the holiness and activity of the Church.

Blessings - Barb

 

[Armor_of_God]

I thought the spouse only had to agree to allow you to raise the kids Catholic? Am I wrong?

Regarding this, Stolen Rutters, I would encourage you to continue seeking out someone who shares your faith. Much heartache and disunity can result from a two-faith marriage, especially when it comes to raising children. It can be a very lonely thing trying to pass on the faith to your children without being able to share it with your spouse. Also, it’s not such an easy thing to get the spouse to agree to allow you to raise the kids Catholic, especially if they are very strong in their own faith. The agreement is required in order for the marriage to be considered valid in the eyes of the Church.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Dear Michael…The Church recognizes the single state clearly as a vocation and call from God and a valid state in life spritually and hence theologically. The priest in question while not questioning at all his holiness and wisdom over time…is transcended by the holiness and wisdom of The Church.

Blessings and Peace…Barb

“the holiness and wisdom of The Church”

Yes, God is holy and wise, and imparts His holiness and wisdom through His sons and daughters, which presumedly includes the priest referred to by another poster. Perhaps instead of someone saying this priest is wrong, someone should question the holiness and wisdom over time of those in charge of large dioceses such as Boston and Los Angeles where large settlements are being paid out and no jail time being paid in. If The Church did not recognize this as wrong over years, are we to accept the view of celibacy as a higher calling as insightful? Perhaps one could argue that Pope Alexander VI was holier and wiser than many of our current and recent Church leaders, despite his children out of wedlock?
newadvent.org/cathen/01289a.htm

Michael

 

[Norseman82]

Quoting NoPlaceLikeRome:

I am only giving this one extract and as it is from a Papal Document I am hoping it will be sufficient :
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v3.html

**DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - **
LUMEN GENTIUM

.[11] In a different way, a similar example is given by widows and single people, who can also greatly contribute to the holiness and activity of the Church.

Blessings - Barb

I agree that it is a recognized state of life, but does that alone make it a vocation on par with marriage and religious life?

 

[lak611]

I agree that it is a recognized state of life, but does that alone make it a vocation on par with marriage and religious life?

Are you saying that single people are inferior to married people and priests/vowed religious?

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I agree that it is a recognized state of life, but does that alone make it a vocation on par with marriage and religious life?

The highest issue in all things is God’s Will, no matter what that Will may be - there is no transcendence of that…hence if God calls one to the single state, the fact that it is God’s Will for the person transcends any sort of “on par with” or “scale of importance” since, again, there is nothing higher than God’s Will.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gifBlessings - Barb

 

[chevalier]

Am single, don’t feel called that way, been wondering on occasion what the vocation is. However, being single generally gets me more energy, more focus, don’t know. Less worry definitely. Often feel more in touch with myself. On the other hand, I do have those romantic ideas. Despite being a lawyer and despite all the things people say. My being single has seemed to have a purpose and has also brought about some good results.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Undoubtedly there can be the single state prior to one finding/hearing one’s call or vocation from God. There is also the single state which is a clear finding/hearing God’s Call and vocation for one and in the single state. The single state undoubtedly can take the Gospel and evangelize into places where other vocations may not venture. I have found also that in the single state, privately vowed to the evangelical counsels and a distinct way of life, that I have freedom to move in any direction God may call and at any time. I am also quite free to follow the Gospel in a most radical manner indeed and perhaps to a degree not found in religious life.
There is canonical status available in the Church for those who are single and live alone through The Order of Virgins and also if one is living heremetically. I hope that one day there will also be canonical status for those living a single life under the evangelical counsels, meanwhile my private vows under spiritual direction are recognized in The Church as a serious and valid committment to the Gospel way of life and the three vows of Chastity, Poverty and Obedience (evangelical counsels) vowed privately. Some hermits choose too to privately vow rather than be canonically vowed. Each follows his/her own call from God in hope.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gifBlessings - Barb

 

[Norseman82]

Are you saying that single people are inferior to married people and priests/vowed religious?

I NEVER SAID THAT AND YOU KNOW IT.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

All I am saying is that it has been proclaimed a state of life, but we are still waiting to see where the Church has officially called the single life a formal vocation like it has religious life or marriage.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Edit: Interestingly it has occured to me just now, Jesus was a single male who lived out a unique vocation or call from His Father in The Holy Spirit. He did not “adopt/enter” the formal religious professions of His Own day and personal religious faith which was Jewish. He was a faithful practising Jew, albeit a challenging one to many of the common concepts of what a faithful Jew was all about.

Certainly, why would Jesus “adapt/enter” the formal religious professions of His own day, considering what He says in Matthew chapter 23:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mt%2023;&version=49;

Perhaps that is relevant to some of those currently in the formal religious professions of our own day? No, the scandals of today couldn’t compare with those of the Pharisees, or do they?

Now, if Jesus had married, and had children, knowing He was going to be crucified, would anyone have wondered about the wisedom in that? Would someone who knew they were going to be executed in a year or two, go and get married and have children, knowing they would be leaving a widow and fatherless children, and knowing they might actually see the execution? So, just perhaps because Jesus was true God and true man, and because He knew He was going to suffer and die for our salvation, that is why He remained single.
… so, when someone defends celibacy with “well, Jesus was celibate”, I wonder if they realize Jesus had a unique role which we are incapable of, since we are not God, and we are not dying for our salvation.
Besides that, Jesus was single. Celibacy is renouncing marriage. Did Jesus ever renounce marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God? His first miracle was at a wedding feast. And He is God, so why would He have to renounce something for His own kingdom?

Michael

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Certainly, why would Jesus “adapt/enter” the formal religious professions of His own day, considering what He says in Matthew chapter 23:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mt%2023;&version=49;

Perhaps that is relevant to some of those currently in the formal religious professions of our own day? No, the scandals of today couldn’t compare with those of the Pharisees, or do they?

Now, if Jesus had married, and had children, knowing He was going to be crucified, would anyone have wondered about the wisedom in that? Would someone who knew they were going to be executed in a year or two, go and get married and have children, knowing they would be leaving a widow and fatherless children, and knowing they might actually see the execution? So, just perhaps because Jesus was true God and true man, and because He knew He was going to suffer and die for our salvation, that is why He remained single.
… so, when someone defends celibacy with “well, Jesus was celibate”, I wonder if they realize Jesus had a unique role which we are incapable of, since we are not God, and we are not dying for our salvation.
Besides that, Jesus was single. Celibacy is renouncing marriage. Did Jesus ever renounce marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God? His first miracle was at a wedding feast. And He is God, so why would He have to renounce something for His own kingdom?

Michael

… Matthew 19

12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it…

Blessings - Barb

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

… Matthew 19

12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it…

Blessings - Barb

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

So, Jesus points out some are born deformed and unable to procreate, some were mutilated by other men and unable to procreate, and some have done it to themself, renouncing procreation for the kingdom of heaven. Why would he give the first two examples if the third was to be held in esteem? And this shortly after He said:
Mt 19:4-6 "And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
What is the focus and context of Mt 19, and what is Jesus referring to with the words "He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.?

Mt 19:9-12 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

The disciples usually did not understand what Jesus was saying, and here it seems like they got it incorrect again (Mt 19:13, Mt 19:10, Mt 18:21, Mt 16:22, etc), and Jesus corrects them again. And, Jesus had already taught this in Mt 5:31-33 concerning divorce.

Mt 19:9-12 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." …" But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. … He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

If someone taught about how one should do good work, and someone objecting saying that is difficult it is better not to work. If the teacher said, “not all can accept this teaching. Some were born unable to work, some were made unable to work by others, and some renounced good work for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Who ever is able to accept this, let him accept this.”
What are they being told to accept? The call to do good work, or to accept renouncing good work?

What does Mark 10 have to say about this? How does 1 Tim 4:1-4 fit with celibacy?

Peace,

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

… Matthew 19

12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it…

Blessings - Barb

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs

Is this supposed to be Jesus renouncing marriage? In the context of Mt 19 and the rest of Old and New Testament Scripture?

Any comment on the other thoughs in post? Do you think someone who knows they are going to be executed in three years, should knowingly get married and have children, only to leave them widowed and fatherless, and to experience the agony of seeing their loved one executed? How caring and thoughtful of others is that, not sparing them mental anquish? Not something I would think God would do. What do you think?

Peace,

Michael

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Is this supposed to be Jesus renouncing marriage? In the context of Mt 19 and the rest of Old and New Testament Scripture?

Any comment on the other thoughs in post? Do you think someone who knows they are going to be executed in three years, should knowingly get married and have children, only to leave them widowed and fatherless, and to experience the agony of seeing their loved one executed? How caring and thoughtful of others is that, not sparing them mental anquish? Not something I would think God would do. What do you think?

Peace,

Michael

Hi Michael…I think you have a point and a good point that Jesus, more or less following in the steps of His Cousin, John, who was beheaded, was also critical of the authority of His day. Jesus probably did realize that His chances of following in John’s footsteps and being executed were very very high, even likely.
Since the only form of contraception in His day was “the sin of Onan” and forbidden by the law, Jesus may well have chosen not to marry since that would mean in all likelihood he would have children and his wife and children would be left on their own after his death.
The above of course is pure speculation.
Another point of speculation to my mind is that perhaps Jesus chose celibacy as that would allow Him to concentrate fully and totally on His mission and brief from God. His vocation.

Other than that, the words of Jesus as I quoted:

… Matthew 19

12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it…

…they speak for themselves and state quite clearly beyond any doubt to my mind as to meaning. That some will choose not to marry hence not to have children and for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven (meaning one is completely free in every way to invest totally in a radical following of The Gospel). This spells out “celibacy” to me and is not my point, but that of Jesus. In no way does this mean that Jesus in any way at all was against marriage. He is simply pointing out an alternative state of life and one dedicated totally to God’s Kingdom. Undoutedly Jesus remained celibate for the sake of The Kingdom. This does not mean that a married person cannot do the same - both states of life can dedicate themselves totally to God’s Kingdom, however in different ways.

Blessings - Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gif iHs