Anyone close to converting to Catholicism?

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Some Orthodox here seem to think you are more like us than like them. 🤷

Eaither way, the Protestant Church is the farthest away:)
Which Protestant Church?
The Orthodox claim you (and we) are prone to innovation, such as papal primacy and infallibility on your part, and sola fide on ours. Just saying.

But we are getting far afield from Bill’s claim that there was only one Church prior to the 1500’s. Of course, it could be argued that there is still one Church, though we, all of us, are in schism and separation from one another, in violation of Christ’s call to unity. So maybe he was right, afterall.

Pray for unity.

Jon
 
Which Protestant Church?
The Orthodox claim you (and we) are prone to innovation, such as papal primacy and infallibility on your part, and sola fide on ours. Just saying.

But we are getting far afield from Bill’s claim that there was only one Church prior to the 1500’s. Of course, it could be argued that there is still one Church, though we, all of us, are in schism and separation from one another, in violation of Christ’s call to unity. So maybe he was right, afterall.

Pray for unity.

Jon
The reason why the Papacy is infalliable, is because it is Guided by The Holy Spirit from Error. So no worries. It’s that easy.
Jesus promised us he would leave us the Holy Spirit.
Peter and the other Apostles were "Batpzied in the holy spirit
At pentecost
 
The reason why the Papacy is infalliable
But, infallibilty requires belief. You have to believe that the pope is infallible. And clearly he’s not because the vast majority of catholics do not follow the churchs infallible teachings.
Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Catholics tend to contracept at the same rate as the rest of the world. Hence the number of children per Catholic family is not significantly different from that of non-Catholics. Catholics tend to have fewer abortions than the rest of the population, but not by a large percentage.
and
More distressing is the American custom of reception of Holy Communion by virtually every layperson who attends Mass on Sunday. Given the dramatic decline in the reception of the Sacrament of Penance and the drop in belief in the Divine Presence in the Eucharist, there must be many objectively sacrilegious communions.
catholicity.com/mccloskey/state_of_the_church_2006.html
 
The reason why the Papacy is infalliable, is because it is Guided by The Holy Spirit from Error. So no worries. It’s that easy.
Jesus promised us he would leave us the Holy Spirit.
Peter and the other Apostles were "Batpzied in the holy spirit
At pentecost
I think a lot of people have trouble understanding what papal infalibility really is… I went to a Cathchist Faith Formation day today, and learned A LOT about the small things I didnt already know!
When the Pope talks infaliabily (which was created in Vatican I), he is speaking Ex Cathedra, meaning From the chair of St. Peter.
The only things that the pope has said infalliably is the Immaculate Conception and the Assuption.
Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II both never spoke infaliably, or from the chair or Peter. This does not mean that the Pope cannot sin, we believe that everyone sins (you have to have a fully formed conscience to not sin, and come on who has that) lol
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello kristanl,
I think a lot of people have trouble understanding what papal infalibility really is… I went to a Cathchist Faith Formation day today, and learned A LOT about the small things I didnt already know!
When the Pope talks infaliabily (which was created in Vatican I), he is speaking Ex Cathedra, meaning From the chair of St. Peter.
Interestingly enough, Saint Peter never did this himself nor heard of this. It is certainly not part of the Received Teaching passed down to us through the Apostles.

I am sure Saint Simon Peter would be surprised what his chair was being used for these days 😃
The only things that the pope has said infalliably is the Immaculate Conception and the Assuption.
Does that make it OK? šŸ™‚

Actually, we already know that it isn’t OK. šŸ˜‰ No bishop in history has ever proclaimed a doctrine on his authority alone, that is a practice of some heretics in the distant past. Saint Simon Peter certainly never did so…

As far as Holy Orthodoxy is concerned, once is too many, twice is a serious scandal.

The plain fact is the bishop of Rome does not have the right to proclaim new dogma on his own authority. No bishop has ever had that power.
Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II both never spoke infaliably, or from the chair or Peter. This does not mean that the Pope cannot sin, we believe that everyone sins (you have to have a fully formed conscience to not sin, and come on who has that) lol
True, it is well known that the Latin church does not argue for Papal Impeccability, and the people who might complain about it are obviously confused.
 
But, infallibilty requires belief. You have to believe that the pope is infallible. And clearly he’s not because the vast majority of catholics do not follow the churchs infallible teachings.

and

catholicity.com/mccloskey/state_of_the_church_2006.html
It has always been (even with the Jews of the OT) a small faithful remnant that followed the Lord (and remember.the Jews had a habit of killing their prophets, i.e, disobeying the revelations from God given to the prophets just as many Catholics repudiate the teaching given to the Church/Pope by the Holy Spirit).
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello kristanl, Interestingly enough, Saint Peter never did this himself nor heard of this. It is certainly not part of the Received Teaching passed down to us through the Apostles.

I am sure Saint Simon Peter would be surprised what his chair was being used for these days 😃 Does that make it OK? šŸ™‚

Actually, we already know that it isn’t OK. šŸ˜‰ No bishop in history has ever proclaimed a doctrine on his authority alone, that is a practice of some heretics in the distant past. Saint Simon Peter certainly never did so…

As far as Holy Orthodoxy is concerned, once is too many, twice is a serious scandal.

The plain fact is the bishop of Rome does not have the right to proclaim new dogma on his own authority. No bishop has ever had that power. True, it is well known that the Latin church does not argue for Papal Impeccability, and the people who might complain about it are obviously confused.
I take it then that you do not believe in the apparition of Mary in Lourdes as it was revealed to Saint Bernadette that it was the ā€œImmaculate Conceptionā€ to whom she was speaking to.
 
I take it then that you do not believe in the apparition of Mary in Lourdes as it was revealed to Saint Bernadette that it was the ā€œImmaculate Conceptionā€ to whom she was speaking to.
I may be wrong here, but I thought catholics were not required to believe in an apparition or revelation after the death of the last apostle.
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello kristanl, Interestingly enough, Saint Peter never did this himself nor heard of this. It is certainly not part of the Received Teaching passed down to us through the Apostles.

I am sure Saint Simon Peter would be surprised what his chair was being used for these days 😃 Does that make it OK? šŸ™‚

Actually, we already know that it isn’t OK. šŸ˜‰ No bishop in history has ever proclaimed a doctrine on his authority alone, that is a practice of some heretics in the distant past. Saint Simon Peter certainly never did so…

As far as Holy Orthodoxy is concerned, once is too many, twice is a serious scandal.

The plain fact is the bishop of Rome does not have the right to proclaim new dogma on his own authority. No bishop has ever had that power. True, it is well known that the Latin church does not argue for Papal Impeccability, and the people who might complain about it are obviously confused.
Also with what Josie said… They are not just pulling these ideas out of their hat. We believe them because Mary Appeared many times to different people…
rexresearch.com/mary/maryapps.htm

What do you guys think of these apparations though? When Mary tells children things are going to happen, why dont you think they happen?
Maybe its because we pray more etc. I wonder why she hasnt appeared since 1983?
 
We only have to believe in dogmas… But I am pretty sure the Immaculate conception and the Assumption are dogmas…
And the reason that these are dogmas is because of the apparations… So I guess you have to believe in the apparations?
-I personally wonder if everything was remembered word for what what was said etc. It seems like Mary is very threatening in some of the things she says, I always thought of her as loving and stuff,… so I have trouble believing in apparations when such harsh things are said… I do however believe in the sitings of her… So i dont know!!
 
The Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined as a dogma by Pope Pius IX in his constitution Ineffabilis Deus on 8 December 1854.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches as dogma that the Virgin Mary, ā€œhaving completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.ā€[1] This means that it claims that Mary was transported into Heaven with her body and soul united. This doctrine was dogmatically and infallibly defined by Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950, in his Apostolic Constitution Munificentissimus Deus.

I took all of that off of wikipedia (lol)
 
I may be wrong here, but I thought catholics were not required to believe in an apparition or revelation after the death of the last apostle.
Well we’re not required to believe but the apparitions were approved by the CC nonetheless. Moreover there have been miracles at Lourdes of which were verified by an internation board of doctors (consisting of non-believers and theists). Also Saint Bernadette was vigorously examined by many people within the Church (in fact the parish priest in town did not at first believe her) and civil officials. From what I remember she was told by the Virgin Mary that she was the ā€œImmaculate Conceptionā€ a word that no mere peasant girl could know (and something that had yet to be defined as dogma). For myself I do not doubt the events just like I do not doubt Fatima and Guadelupe. God bless.
 
Also with what Josie said… They are not just pulling these ideas out of their hat. We believe them because Mary Appeared many times to different people…
rexresearch.com/mary/maryapps.htm

What do you guys think of these apparations though? When Mary tells children things are going to happen, why dont you think they happen?
Maybe its because we pray more etc. I wonder why she hasnt appeared since 1983?
The apparitions at Medjugorge have not been approved.
 
I take it then that you do not believe in the apparition of Mary in Lourdes as it was revealed to Saint Bernadette that it was the ā€œImmaculate Conceptionā€ to whom she was speaking to.
Actually the apparition is irrelevant in the sense that it is not the source of the belief, it came four years afterward and acceptance of the apparition is not binding upon anyone. The proclamation of the dogma was the really big news in Europe, dogma had never been proclaimed that way before and people had doubts, it was quite controversial.

I am not saying the idea was not popular, the Immaculate Conception was a hugely popular idea in countries like France before the bishop of Rome Pius IX declared it dogma, but at the time it was a theological opinion of somewhat later origin.

The ā€˜appearance’ was certainly opportune, in one stoke it reinforced and validated (in people’s minds) the Latin concept of the IC and also the Pope’s power to declare dogma. The new dogma also made the apparition hugely popular internationally, there was a synergy.

According to Eastern theology, the Immaculate Conception does not make a lot of sense, the dogma depends upon a Latin understand of the nature of First Sin so for Eastern Christians it is something of a yawner. It is not based upon a universal principle, but a parochial understanding. For Eastern Christians it needs to be ā€˜interpreted’ to make some kind of sense.

The dogma just has no depth of meaning to Eastern Christianity in general and that automatically makes it, and any visions which seem to support it, look a bit doubtful to Eastern Christians of all types.

Eastern Catholics (I am referring largely to Byzantine Catholics, the people I know better) have been under the influence of the Latin church for generations (the concept of Sui Iuris church being something I think from the late twentieth century, before which these were considered rites… sometimes under Latin bishops), so one will see many Eastern Catholics who believe in the IC. It has become a vehicle which has been effective in dislodging some eastern notions of theology and spirituality in favor of the Latin. In other words, for the IC to make sense to an Eastern Catholic, the person has to adopt a Latin understanding of First Sin (Original Sin) or there will be cognitive dissonance. This has taken place already generations ago, so interiorly many Eastern Catholics with long family histories in their particular churches (sometimes affectionately called the 'Nash) can seem more like Latin Catholics than like Orthodox.

One can see the process in reverse as well… some Eastern Catholics (many I have known, or met) hear the Clarion Call to return to their church’s original traditions, and many study Orthodox works on spirituality (which are readily available, often sold in the parish and recommended by the priest). Some might identify themselves as ā€œOrthodox in Communion with Romeā€, for they see themselves as Orthodox in every way except in their affiliations (which is loyal to Rome).

Those who do might experience this cognitive dissonance going the eastward way, and if they come to accept an Orthodox understanding of First Sin, the IC seems to make less sense. They know they cannot disbelieve it, the church commands them to accept it, even if they don’t understand it.

I know that I told you much more than you asked, I am just trying to put the whole thing in context.
 
Guyonthestreet;5545959:
I may be wrong here, but I thought catholics were not required to believe in an apparition or revelation after the death of the last apostle.
Well we’re not required to believe but the apparitions were approved by the CC nonetheless. Moreover there have been miracles at Lourdes of which were verified by an internation board of doctors (consisting of non-believers and theists). Also Saint Bernadette was vigorously examined by many people within the Church (in fact the parish priest in town did not at first believe her) and civil officials. From what I remember she was told by the Virgin Mary that she was the ā€œImmaculate Conceptionā€ a word that no mere peasant girl could know (and something that had yet to be defined as dogma). For myself I do not doubt the events just like I do not doubt Fatima and Guadelupe. God bless.
Actually, the dogma had been declared four years before the Lourdes event, and Bernadette was certainly old enough to have been made aware of it. Especially if she was properly catechized, she would have heard preaching on the subject and talk in the streets over it for four years.

She was fourteen, old enough to post with vigour on CAF! 😃

The concept of ā€˜peasant girl’ is not appropriate to her, although she may have been of the lowest class. Her father was a miller, so he was engaged in business, her mother took in laundry, so again there were people from all over town in contact with the family. I could be wrong, but don’t remember any accounts telling us she grew up on a farm, isolated from the civic world.
 
Actually, the dogma had been declared four years before the Lourdes event, and Bernadette was certainly old enough to have been made aware of it. Especially if she was properly catechized, she would have heard preaching on the subject and talk in the streets over it for four years.

She was fourteen, old enough to post with vigour on CAF! 😃
From what I understood she wasn’t too well-versed in cathechesis as her health prevented from participating in many of the lessons. But I stand corrected I thought the dogma was declared after Lourdes, good thing it was done before though, this just reaffirms it’s veracity even more.
 
From what I understood she wasn’t to well versed in cathechesis as she was for the most part sick and therefore missed many a lesson…
The idea that she was not well catechized does not make any sense, but it makes the story more appealing.

By that age I would presume she had already made her First Holy Communion and also her Confirmation. If her catechesis was lacking there should be evidence that she did not acquire these sacraments.

I am interested to know, so if anyone has more info please post.
 
Hesychios;5546184**:
The idea that she was not well catechized does not make any sense, but it makes the story more appealing.
By that age I would presume she had already made her First Holy Communion and also her Confirmation. If her catechesis was lacking there should be evidence that she did not acquire these sacraments.

I am interested to know, so if anyone has more info please post.
I read her biography 20 yrs ago. People have different levels of understanding. some are bright, some are dull and some are average. She was sick most of the time ( I think asthma) and miss a lot of classes. I think her teacher recommended that the priest delay her confirmation because she doesn’'t know her catechism. Her younger sister is in the same class and the girls tease her a lot because she is really ā€œdullā€.
 
This has to do with the statement about whether or now Bernedate knew about the immaculate conception…
ā€œThis Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.ā€ Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

To technically the idea had been around for a pretty long time!!
 
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