Anyone Ever Feel Like Leaving the Church?

[ComputerGeek25]

You misunderstand. I am never, ever, going to sing Kumbya again.

I can interact with someone with love and respect and still tell them things they do not want to hear. However, because of the respectful tone of the relationship, the person will be open to hear what I have to say.

Only a very ineffective speaker resorts to the, “If you don’t believe me, you’re going to Hell!” line of debate. Yes, people need to hear the Truth, but it doesn’t have to be wrapped in hellfire and damnation.

That line of thought isn’t going to win any hearts and minds.

 

[monicatholic]

Jesus said, "If you love me, Keep my word."

and Pope Benedict warned that Christianity isn’t ***just ***morality, but the moral response to LOVE:

Christianity is not an intellectual system, a packet of dogmas, a moralism. Christianity is rather an encounter, a love story; it is an event.

Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction.

here is “O Deus Ego Amo Te,” by St Francis Xavier (translated by Gerard Manley Hopkins)

O GOD, I love thee, I love thee-
Not out of hope of heaven for me
Nor fearing not to love and be
In the everlasting burning.
Thou, thou, my Jesus, after me
Didst reach thine arms out dying,
For my sake sufferedst nails, and lance,
Mocked and marred countenance,
Sorrows passing number,
Sweat and care and cumber,
Yea and death, and this for me,
And thou couldst see me sinning:
Then I, why should not I love thee,
Jesu, so much in love with me?
Not for heaven’s sake;
not to be out of hell by loving thee;
Not for any gains I see;
But just the way that thou didst me
I do love and I will love thee:
What must I love thee, Lord, for then?
For being my king and God. Amen.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I do understand the Catholic faith and the reasons I can’t do the things I used to do. I just can’t explain to them, they don’t care. All they think is that someone took their fun friend. They have said worse, but I won’t go into it. So I usually just don’t say anything (I don’t want to come off as judgemental) and if they start to do something that could be immoral, I head home.

Sometimes it’s tough to explain. But you owe it to them to try.

 

[Nec5]

not to be out of hell by loving thee;
Not for any gains I see;
But just the way that thou didst me
I do love and I will love thee:
What must I love thee, Lord, for then?
For being my king and God. Amen.

I have to ask, if Christ was all about loving him simply for the sake of loving him, why then did he speak so often about hell and damnation? If the only way to spread the message of God is to mention love and what happens if you follow God’s path, why did Christ mention the other side when he was looking to spread the good news?

Again, this “love only” approach has proven a failure over the last few decades. A little fire and damnation are necessary. This “positive only” approach leads to no appreciation for evil and its outcomes.

 

[monicatholic]

I have to ask, if Christ was all about loving him simply for the sake of loving him, why then did he speak so often about hell and damnation? If the only way to spread the message of God is to mention love and what happens if you follow God’s path, why did Christ mention the other side when he was looking to spread the good news?

Again, this “love only” approach has proven a failure over the last few decades. A little fire and damnation are necessary. This “positive only” approach leads to no appreciation for evil and its outcomes.

a few thoughts.

perhaps you’ve reduced the poem and the pope’s message to “the love only” approach. it seems as if you’re presenting a false and damaging dichotomy. st francis xavier is wrong? so is pope benedict XVI?

do not fear love. st. John said God IS love.

Jesus said, if you LOVE ME, KEEP MY WORD. the two-- love and obedience-- are inseparable. without love, obedience is servitude, without obedience love is mere emotion. “why do you call me Lord Lord and NOT DO as I say?”

the st joseph baltimore catechism taught me that God made me to know HIM, love HIM and serve HIM in this life so that i may spend eternity with HIM. damnation is the eternal loss of love. of course i fear that. i fear that because i love HIM.

until i saw the beauty of Love, i didn’t really perceive the horror of evil. until i loved HIM, i never experienced perfect contrition for sins.

 

[Nec5]

For the third time, how do you reconcile this exclusive approach with my earlier discussion of Christ’s references to hell and damnation. What about my remarks concerning the last several decades.

Of course, we’re supposed to love God and follow his teachings. But we’re also supposed to be aware of the Adversary’s aims as well. That has gotten lost in all this personal Jesus talk in our modern culture.

 

[PPeterson]

CS, lot’s of us have felt this way. reading/posting this forum almost always makes me feel worse, so i only check it out every now and again, then vow to not do so anymore.

KC91- is this a real person? by far best poster on here. i’m thinking it’s a hilarious and very clever troll. The prayer to Benedict and part about he and Pius XII being handsome was golden.

 

[PPeterson]

also don’t judge

 

[TedDC]

CS, lot’s of us have felt this way. reading/posting this forum almost always makes me feel worse, so i only check it out every now and again, then vow to not do so anymore.

KC91- is this a real person? by far best poster on here. i’m thinking it’s a hilarious and very clever troll. The prayer to Benedict and part about he and Pius XII being handsome was golden.

Regrettably those folks are real - at least as real as anything gets on the Web - and in fact quite plentiful on this forum. Check out this creepy posting.

 

[KC91]

KC91,
I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts. I would recommend going to see Italy and Malta before deciding to raise your large, Catholic family there. They are Catholic, but there is a huge difference between Italian Catholicism and the sort of 1950s Catholic-Puritain hybrid that you seem to enjoy

Read the Little Flowers of St. Francis of Assisi, I think you’ll enjoy them, and I think they’ll do you good.

I know there is some difference, considering that the pro-Catholic and pro-life Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi also has a womanising reputation and the Italian Renaissance Popes such as Julius II, but it is better to be not puritainical than to be an apostate.

 

[Shadark]

KC91, I can see that the Catholic Church is a big part of your life, and I don’t discount your enthusiasm and passion. But I am interested to know who the man is behind the username, if that is not too invasive. Although I haven’t agreed with you on some of your posts, this one…

CS do you find any enjoyable activities at your parish such as groups, refreshments, etc? Since one of my favourite activities at my parish is eating breakfast (provided by the parish) with my mates in the parish hall after morning mass.

…warmed my heart, because it shows the human side of you. It’s stuff like that which is encouraging for people to hear. Sometimes a few points of the personal can make statements more powerful.

 

[monicatholic]

For the third time, how do you reconcile this exclusive approach with my earlier discussion of Christ’s references to hell and damnation. What about my remarks concerning the last several decades.

for the second time-- you are the ONLY one who seems to reading any exclusivity in my last post.

i’m all done with this non-issue. i won’t get in the way of country singer pondering responses to her primary topic any more.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I guess I’m not convinced by your language. You wrote, “The reason I can’t do things.” This is quite different from the reason you choose not to do things. You can have sex. You can dress any way you like. You can sleep in on Sunday morning. Nothing is stopping you. You can do these things, but you chose not to.

Nevertheless, you seem to be expressing a situation in which you have no choice. Whether because of the guilt of your mother or some other reason, most of your language from your first post is lamenting how you are being constricted. Why do you feel this way? Being able to answer this question might lead you to a better understanding of where you need to be.

Hey, I sleep late Sunday morning. Oh, wait, we attend Vigil Mass.

 

[masha]

I know there is some difference, considering that the pro-Catholic and pro-life Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi also has a womanising reputation and the Italian Renaissance Popes such as Julius II, but it is better to be not puritainical than to be an apostate.

Go there and walk around, Italy has a very sensual culture

To be puritainical is to be at least somewhat of an apostate, it is a heresy after all.

Blessings!

 

[PrayerShark]

I was watching a show on exorcists the other week, and they showed that the majority of masses in Italy have taken on the appearance of the protestant model, i.e. people holding hands, modernised songs and faith healing.

I do agree that the Italian church culture isn’t as strict as the American puritanical one. I find it more appealing and less judgmental.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I honestly don’t know what I believe anymore. All I know is that I hate being told what to do. Love God or go to Hell? Why don’t you all put a gun to my head. You can’t force love. Love is a choice, not made under duress. It would be like me putting a gun to some guy’s head and telling him to marry me. He might do it, but it would be out of fear, not love.

Do I love God? Until I can say “yes” withoug feeling like I have to, I don’t know. He has put me through the ringer, I’ve had a very tough life. Or be Catholic or go to Hell (my mom said that as well). That isn’t going to build true faith.

I think you’re feeling something very common to many and you’re being quite candid about it. That’s commendible.

But who’s putting a gun to your head?

God gives us free will to reject His teachings. And if you think by turning your back on Him you will escape duress, think again. Troubles come to everyone, atheist, Christian, whomever. Do you believe atheism or Gaia-ism will provide the answers or make you ‘happy?’

It’s all right to struggle with your faith. But count your blessings… if you’re strong enough to play rugby, that puts you at least one up on me.

 

[Monkciate]

What a long, drawn out, inconsolable thread.

I, for one, have been seriously thinking about switching over to the Lutheran church as I see alot of truth in Luther’s writings.

 

[Monkciate]

God gives us free will to reject His teachings. And if you think by turning your back on Him you will escape duress, think again. Troubles come to everyone, atheist, Christian, whomever. Do you believe atheism or Gaia-ism will provide the answers or make you ‘happy?’

It’s all right to struggle with your faith.

I think the subject of this thread is misleading. It really isn’t an issue of *just *leaving the Church, it’s about walking away from Christianity and religion period. Two distinct things there. Leaving the Church does not always entail abandoning Christianity entirely.

Regardless, I’ve walked the road of no religion, residual existentialism and feigned atheism before and the experience left me two years behind in personal growth and a few thousand dollars more in credit card debt. I’m still paying for my decision to walk away from Christianity and do what I pleased whenever I wanted. The guys said, “Let’s go drinking,” so I’d go drinking and rack up some hefty tabs. Someone said, “I’m bored, let’s go to the strip club,” so we’d go and waste 6 or 7 hours (and a few more hundred dollars) there.

I’d do these things, but at night as I was falling asleep I could hear God knocking, saying, “You’re not happy, are you?” And I wasn’t, but I also wasn’t happy with God. I couldn’t and I can’t escape religion or God or any of it, I’ve learned since then. No matter how hard I try to pull away, I can’t. I may not know what I believe anymore, just like you (currently I’m asking myself, ‘Was Martin Luther right?’), but I can’t go on being fickle and resisting what is undeniably a part of who I am.

So, no. Life may be difficult, pre-marital sex can be nearly impossible to resist (just ask me and my girlfriend), God can seem like an *******, and the Church seem like a horrible labirynth/museum/attorney’s office rolled into one, but even when I lack faith and hope and love I turn to the crucifix and realize, “It’s going to be okay. I’m really not alone after all.”

 

[KC91]

Go there and walk around, Italy has a very sensual culture

To be puritainical is to be at least somewhat of an apostate, it is a heresy after all.

Blessings!

I have been there several times, the culture is more Catholic than in the US where the culture is materialist and non-Catholic. Therefore Italian culture is somewhat less inducive to apostasy.

 

[whatevergirl]

*No, never really ever thought about leaving the Church. Have been Catholic all my life, my zeal has waivered, at times. I have been going through some issues myself in my own life, that has brought me to my knees in confession today…and after I left, I thought…wow, I’m SO grateful to have this Sacrament of penance, of healing…that is a treasure that no other ‘‘religion’’ really can offer you.

That said, your struggles are not uncommon…I think that what you have to realize about the Church, is that She is there to give you the very best in life. I have read your posts before about finding men, (secular I’m assuming you mean) and so on…but, will you truly be happy? To find a man who isn’t after the Lord’s heart? The fullness of Truth that can be found in the Church? I think that is what I’d ask yourself, when you go through these moments in time. And you’ll have more moments like this…

I will leave you with this…the devil is alive and well. He isn’t going anywhere, and he looks for the SLIGHTEST opening of weakness…the slightest crack in our foundation. I know this to be true, in my own life…I have struggles, albeit different from yours. I think that when we can admit…hey, I am human, I have struggles, but I have Christ’s Church to embrace me and help me through…we’re better offf. Abandoning the faith won’t make life better for you…it will just make it less meaningful. More about secularism. If you were to choose a Protestant faith, God bless all of our brothers and sisters in Christ…you could be happy, but you won’t have the fullness of Truth, that is what is found in the Church.

Don’t worry too much…you will meet a great man someday, who loves you for you…and who embraces the faith like you. Trust me, girl! hugs And trust in the Lord, for He is always good…*