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kalt
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Why do you mention their color?
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mormonboy
Guest
CWBets says in response to the same question, "That is not for me to say. I do not specualate on the condition of the soul of another. That is the decision of God, not me. "
One of you is wrong and I doubt it is CW. theoretically speaking, if the Catholic Church were true why would God unjustly judge you just because you don’t believe or come in contact with the church?
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planten
Guest
**It may be useful. It is because they were working hard in a non-white country. It is impressive to see well dressed organised people who are prepared.with the language too.
I don’t know. I felt that it may be useful to mention their color. It was my mistake. I remember that they were English. If I had written that they were from England then I woud not have need to mention the Color.
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kalt
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I think race is more important there. In the US, people don’t usually mention someone’s color when telling a story. We would normally say that the person was a foreigner or a recent immigrant. We would only mention their race if the particular race mattered. I realize that it is different there, though.
Am I correct in thinking that race is an important factor there in someone’s ability to get certain work?
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Jon_Hus
Guest
An unusually large amount of JWs are either ex-catholic or from a catholic background. Most of them know much more about the catholic religion than catholics know about the JWs religion. From reading the misinformed comments here I would have to say this is actually an understatement.Or better yet, how about if the J/W learns all about the Catholic Church and then they can quit knocking on people’s doors and go to Mass instead and spent time in worship and then in their spare time they can spend it in fellowship and doing good.
One of the distinct features of the JWs religion is that they do not believe in the trinity. Instead, they believe that Jehovah-God created Jesus (the logos) and that Jesus created everything else. Therefore, since Jesus was created, not God, he is not to be worshipped. The Watch Tower religion is not part of Protestantism as many here claim. Much of their theology comes from Arianism, an error of the early eastern church. The council of Nicaea (AD325) and the resulting Nicene creed was partly a result of Arius false teachings.
Another interesting aspect of the JW religion, one is not apparent to even those who belong to it,is just how much of the organizational doctrine it shares the the Roman Church. While the theology is 180 degrees apart they are organized on a similar boilerplate and share many techniques in theory. One good example is the “top down” heiarchy of the organization, another is the absolute belief that their religion and membership in the same is the only way to God. As well as faith and works (although the works are different, they are works just the same), their leadership having a direct line of communication with God and their unwillingness to engage in any kind of academic conversation with those who hold different views.
One big difference between the two is the the WT insists on active participation of those in the faith. The Roman Church in that respect is passive as exemplified by the comment by the learned allhers (above) in which it is suggested that attending mass is what is needed to have a relationship with God.
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Jon_Hus
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I might add another thing, both JWs and Roman Catholics claim to know and study the Bible but in fact most (not all) really don’t know much except a few verses that they think back up their claims. As I have said before, your average JW will still, in a discussion in which the Bible is used will make most Catholics and Mainline Protestants look foolish.
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CWBetts
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You are not as familiar with Catholicism as you would like to think. According to the documents that came out of Vatican II, the Church is the only deposit of the fullness of truth, but other faith traditions have a partial picture, but they don’t have everything. Attending Mass is ONE PART of having a rlationship with God. It is Mass where we recieve Him, and he is truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. But frequent Confession is also needed to have a relationship with Christ. Among other things it makes us concious of sin and fosters humility. I am fully willing to engage in academic conversation, because there is nothing in the Bible counter to Catholicism, and nothing in Catholicism counter to the Bible, which makes perfect sense, in that the Bible is a Catholic book. To be honest, the most close-minded of faiths I have come across is the Fundamental Independent Baptists. I used to be one. They also believe that only they have the truth. Many believe their pastors have a direct line with God. They believe no one outside of their tradition has any hope of salvation. I know this because I spent a semester in a Baptist Bible college in Indiana. Not all Protestants belive this way, not even al Baptists do. But I know this sect of Baptist extists. So please, enough of your nonsense
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Roman_Catholic_1
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Hus, this could easily be said of any of the Protestant denominations. How many Protestants do you know who can only quote Jn 3:16? And sometimes not even that?
No one is going to deny that sometimes our own worst enemies are our fellow Catholics. But it is a bit hypocritical to think that this is solely a Catholic problem. Like Grace, it stretches denominational lines.
I would much rather look foolish than be foolish.God bless
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piltdown_man
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Jon Hus, a lot of the statements that you made about the Catholic Church are erroneous at best, and offensive at worst. Please friend, enlighten us as to why you consider the Catholic Church unwilling “to engage in any kind of academic conversation with those who hold different views.” It is my understanding that members of the Catholic Church, on this very web site, engage in “academic conversation with those who hold different views” very frequently.
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piltdown_man
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And Hus, pray tell what “techniques in theory” does the Catholic Church share with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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CWBetts
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I think he ran away. Hus? Where’d you go??
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allhers
Guest
Well, if they had known much more about their own Catholic Religion or background, I doubt they would have left the Catholic Church to become J/W’s.
I have no doubt that they know much more about J/W’s than most Catholics do.
They obviously have no clue about the Catholic Church, Jesus, His Sacraments, the Mass or the Church’s Magisterium and they didn’t want to learn. Whenever I invited them to Eucharistic Adoration or to pray the Rosary they didn’t like that idea either and left. They obviously had an agenda and since I wasn’t following their agenda, they deceided to go elsewhere.
In the past, I talked with them, even had a Catholic Priest over to discuss with them, they didn’t like that idea at all. I didn’t find them to be very nice or charitable or welcoming. Then they left us with a watch tower that said very hateful things about our Pope. I didn’t let them into my home after that. They don’t even come to my door anymore. Haven’t in years and I’ve been in the same place for years. I wouldn’t let them in, but I’d be happy to tell them that I am still very much a happy, praticing and learned Catholic. (I sitll go to Mass and love Jesus and His Church that He founded, and partake of His Sacraments, especially the Most Blessed Sacrament, He Himself, in Holy Communion.)
I still learn more and more about my Religion all the time and would be happy to share that with them, they aren’t interested in mine anymore than I am in their’s. If theirs leads away from Jesus, why would I be interested?
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Jon_Hus
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I’m here but I don’t know why. Personally I don’t have a pony in this race since I’m neither Catholic or a JW. No one on this forum debates the issues, they just keep repeating the same thing about the one true Catholic Church. I give three examples of why I think the WT and the Catholic Church share theological theory and instead of someone taking one of those examples for debate, everyone says give us an example and then informs me that I cannot see into the hearts of men, as if I needed someone to tell me this?I think he ran away. Hus? Where’d you go??
Is there anyone able to read a statement and respond with something meaningful and well reasoned, or is the answer to everything “We are the one true Apostolic Church charged by the Lord to bring light into the word and anyone who disagrees with us is wrong even if the Bible teaches something totally different because we are smarter than you and you cannot possibly know anything about the Bible because only the Pope and the Church Fathers and Tradition can read and understand plain english”?
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Jon_Hus
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The facts are the acts my friend. And the facts are that there is a large % of ex-catholics in the WT society. I don’t know what they know about the benifits of the Mass but neither do you, correct? I would assume and most reasonable persons would agree that ex-catholics know what catholics believe. Why is this so hard to accept?
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Sailor_Kenshin
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You’re making a lot of assumptions here. Sure you don’t have a pony in the race?
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CWBetts
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An ex-CAtholic is a poorly catechized Catholic. Who would leave the only Church that has the fullness of truth. Like I said before, the JWs have more in common with Fundamentalist Protestants than Catholics.
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allhers
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Then their very acts show that they don’t know the benefits of the Mass. I would think that would be obvious to a reasonable thinking person.
I also would not assume that an ex-Catholic knew what the Church taught and believed.
I’ve actually talked with far too many so called ex-Catholics who told me what they thought were my beliefs, they were all wrong.
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OneTrueCathApos
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Not to be so off topic here, but I noticed your signature of Luther. Tell me, how can 1500 years of Christianity be wrong when one man can TRY and come in to TRY to reform the Catholic church and fails at doing so? If Luther was doing God’s work, God doesn’t fail, therefore he wasn’t doing God’s work. This man, who decides FOR HIMSELF, he doesn’t “agree” with the Catholic church and causes a terrible division in the church obviously started by Jesus Christ. Why on earth would you follow him? I mean, what gall of this man to do such a thing. If you yourself are protesting the CC, what is it exactly are YOU protesting? :coffeeread:
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SD_Catholic
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Well don’t assume too much… my ex-Catholic sister who joined a Baptist church asked while debating how we could believe the Pope doesn’t sin… And she was in a Catholic college for 3 years… maybe they don’t know as much as they or you think.
They might no some basics, but most of the time even those have been tampered with by their new found Protestant friends.
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Jon_Hus
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The first sentence you write points out another similarity between JWs and Catholics. And what points is that you ask? OK, Both groups put doctrine ahead of faith. Put it another way, the more doctrine you know and agree with, the more faith you have. This is not what Evangelical/Conservative/Fundamental/Protestants practice. Now you may not agree with me but in effect your comment that an “ex-catholic is a poorly catechized catholic” can only mean one thing. And that is pound enough doctrine into your head and be numb towards anything not in agreement with that doctrine and you will have truth faith.
I pointed out earlier that the JWs get their theology from the Arian problem which was one of the main reasons for the Nicean Council 325 AD, 1200 years before Martin Luther. Check it out for yourself, you would claim the Nicean Council as a catholic event so it’s your history. I said previously that the JWs do not believe in the Trinity. I can go on and on but this one point should be sufficient to prove that the JWs don’t have very much in common with protestants from a theological standpoint. The only thing the JWs have in common with Protestants is that they are not Roman Catholic.
Please listen to me carefully. The actual theology of the Catholic Church is 180 degrees different from that of the JWs. This I have already said. However, the methodiology used between the two groups are in many cases similar. I gave examples, kindly go back and read what I actually said, then comment.
If you want to be in your own mind right, then be my guest, I really don’t care one way or the other. However, if you want to be factual, if actual true facts are importaint to you then slow down and read what is being said and respond accordingly.
I have a question for you CWbetts. Let’s see how smart you are. There are only three (3) types of Church governments or organization layouts regardless of which denomination or Church you associate with. I’m talking about the way the church is organized, not what they believe. I will give you a hint, one type of church government is Presbyterian. The Presbyterian Church gets it’s name from the way the church is organized, not what they believe.
What are the other two and which one describes the Roman Catholic Church? Which one describes the JWs?
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