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Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum
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swariffin
Guest
Dear Planten,
Your post does make me remember of how good Christian I am. That is a good (name removed by moderator)ut you give us. You are true, if everybody in this world follow the law of Jesus, there will be no crime in this world. There will be no more killing in the name of God. There will be no law which allows human to kill others whatever the reason is. There will be no human who judges others and rob the power of God to punish in the name of God. There will be no enemy to kill or slaughter, because everybody loves the “enemy”. There will be no diferences in treating other human such as imposing extra tax. There will be no unequal treatment toward women, because there vote is the same as the man. I am glad that you also see, what a wonderful world it will be with the law of Christ reigns.
P
planten
Guest
**The post #215 of KittyGabriel was perfectly in good order which you have criticised for no reason. Islam is for peace. It gives you chance to propagate your religion peacefully. But your preaching is not peaceful. You are in some way a terrorist yourself if you do not believe in peaceful preaching. That was the practice of Jesus too.Forget the politics please. Come to Jesus. Come to the spiritual matters.
None of the religions are teaching terrorism. So if any one (May be a Muslim) is killing or doing something unusual, that is not the fault of the religion. Just do not blame Islam for terrorism. Islam has advised to fight against the terrorists only, i.e. the people who do not work for peace.**
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Sam_777
Guest
:nope:, read these:
(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”
(Quran 9:5):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
(Quran 9:29):
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
(Quran 3:151):
“Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!”
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
“*Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, “They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.”) *”
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R_not
Guest
Why don’t you turn the other cheek and stop telling me to do so when I will not just stop warning people of the evil of islam? Warning people of what islam is all about is NOT have anything to do with loving our enemy.
To tell everyone that allowing muslims to bring back segregation because they think of us as dirty is NOT telling us you are god-fearing because you are trying to separate us, who you think as dirty and passing judgement on us as if we are not God fearing. You want segregation when children are swimming, or children are playing sports, or when children are playing in a school yard. You are disingenuous in your assertion that our children, or we, are not God fearing because you want segregation because your koran tells you that we are dirty.
Turn your cheek and start tolerating people. Take your islam home with you and practice it there and get it out of our faces. Many of us don’t want it and as muslims do everywhere they shove it down people’s throats. Or if people don’t accept it we see that they destroy churches, kill nuns and priests, torture and kill the lay peoples, kidnap/enslave/rape/torture/kill the lay people who are not muslims.
For someone to preach to me that I should turn my cheek while all I do is tell people of the evil that islam does to this very day is laughable. go practice turning the other cheek yourself - oh!!! muslims are not taught to turn the other cheek - they are taught instead to do whatever they want to infidels.
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
This is why I have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims. You lie about your own faith then proceed to tell others that they are not living theirs out. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. You won’t listen to reason. Your false prophet didn’t preach peacefully, yet you claim R_not is preaching hatred. No, he’s preaching the truth about your faith that you deny. You are the one who needs to come to Jesus and leave your false religion that seeks to kill my religion.
MW
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R_not
Guest
There is nothing peaceful about islam. And islam does indeed teach jihad which includes violent terrorism - intimidation and fear. I also fight against those who support the terrorists and support those terrorists because they are misleading us as to what islam is all about. It is about submission - and their goal is to become the dominate ones. Read my posts - you know what I say is true.
if you are a true ‘moderate’ then how can you follow a prophet who was a rapist, enslaver, kidnapper, thief, liar, torturer, and a murderer?
this is what we can look forward to from ‘moderate’ muslims as others are now experiencing in their country:
article on % of muslim and % of violence:
frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4DE15EF9-A76C-4DD4-81E2-75683AEED74D
islam will rule the world and USA: memritv.org/clip/en/1761.htm
mohammed - prophet or terrorist: bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
List of intolerant teachings in the Koran: faithfreedom.org/Articles/quran_teaches.htm
If you are a true moderate you will not be misleading non-muslims as to what islam is all about and practicing da’wa on these threads. What really is the truth is that you so called false moderates need people like KittyGabriel to help you pass your falsehoods to us. These people have helped the muslims in countries like Lebanon which is now rife with muslim violence. and that is only one example - these types have helped the violent muslims in Europe grow and deceive.
For mohammed said that all muslims are to do jihad - and if they don’t want to do the violent jihad then they are to support the jihadists (that is what muslim charities are all about which our government shuts down when they find them) and also deceive us.
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R_not
Guest
thank you MW, I need help in explaining myself. I am just trying to make people aware of mohammed and the koran’s teachings - something that the muslims on this board are not doing and instead misleading everyone as to what the koran says.
The one thing we have found out quite a while ago is that islam does not mean peace, but instead submission and for muslims to go back to saying it means peace is one sign that they are starting right off as being deceptive. To me it shows me their true intentions - and that means that ‘moderate’ should be questioned.
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GraceDK
Guest
Ah, yes. You see this is the good thing about being Catholic. You get to shuve your religion down everyone else’s throat and yet be the most hypocritical person in the world. Catholics by nature are full of themselves. No matter how much they may pretend to care about other religions, they still have only one goal.
Sounds like you are the one full of your self and you own prejudice… But you are right one thing. We believe we have a message that will improve your life quality and that message is Jesus Christ.
Making sure everyone knows and accepts them as the one and only. Am I generalizing yes, which I shouldn’t be doing because of course, there are Catholics that don’t pound their religion down everyone’s throats, but overall the majority of them do this.
Right now… it sounds like youre the one doing the pounding.
Haha. Wouldn’t it be a rude awakening if they died and realized there was actually a large pantheon of gods?(I am not saying this is true) Think about that.
**What makes you think we havent? why do you state the obvious? it will be a rude awakening for you and for me in the hour of death… for you because you will meet Jesus Christ. For me… because I will meet Him too. **
Also, I do agree with the idea of avoiding secularism. In fact I think that everyone should just believe what they want to believe and leave everyone else out of it.
**Great… then why dont you leave us out of what you believe, eh?a little food for thought: how do you plan on raising your kids? By teaching them the one priciple only: make up your own mind about what do believe, say and do… Good luck! **
Obviously due to 9/11. It has nothing to do with the religion at all. If anything it is a racial issue. No, I am not insulting the race. But sadly, it just so happens that we are focusing mainly on the terrorists that come from the Middle East. We need to realize that terrorism is not related to the religion, but to the people that create the terror. Anyone who blames terrorism on Islam is ignorant and obviously doesn’t understand their religion nor any others, and has no place in even discussing it.
**You need to realise that the mandate for terrorism and war or any injustice is found in the world view of a certain individual or people. A certain book or document is often in the centre of this world view (Yes also the New Testament has been used even to excuse alienation and violence though the post modern Christian dont find there is any excuses for violence in the New Testament)
Nazism did not have to do with the german race… it had to do with the infiltration of minds …infiltration coming about by an ideolgy best descibed in the books of that ideology, here: *Mein Kampf * written by a Adolf Hitler and which thousands of his followers acted on. Then it became a racial thing… but only then.
The same can be said about “the Little Read” that Mao Zedong wrote and which ligitimised an ideology that cost the lives of millions of people… not because the Chinese are stupid or animal-like but because they were under the influence of an ideology and then legitimised their actions by using that read book. The same is true about the Quran today. Not all Moslems are terrorists… far from it. But they have a problem to explain today how it is that the majority of terrorism that do take place around globe today is done in the name of the Quran and allah…
Peace.
Grace <><**
Sounds like you are the one full of your self and you own prejudice… But you are right one thing. We believe we have a message that will improve your life quality and that message is Jesus Christ.
Making sure everyone knows and accepts them as the one and only. Am I generalizing yes, which I shouldn’t be doing because of course, there are Catholics that don’t pound their religion down everyone’s throats, but overall the majority of them do this.
Right now… it sounds like youre the one doing the pounding.
Haha. Wouldn’t it be a rude awakening if they died and realized there was actually a large pantheon of gods?(I am not saying this is true) Think about that.
**What makes you think we havent? why do you state the obvious? it will be a rude awakening for you and for me in the hour of death… for you because you will meet Jesus Christ. For me… because I will meet Him too. **
Also, I do agree with the idea of avoiding secularism. In fact I think that everyone should just believe what they want to believe and leave everyone else out of it.
**Great… then why dont you leave us out of what you believe, eh?a little food for thought: how do you plan on raising your kids? By teaching them the one priciple only: make up your own mind about what do believe, say and do… Good luck! **
Obviously due to 9/11. It has nothing to do with the religion at all. If anything it is a racial issue. No, I am not insulting the race. But sadly, it just so happens that we are focusing mainly on the terrorists that come from the Middle East. We need to realize that terrorism is not related to the religion, but to the people that create the terror. Anyone who blames terrorism on Islam is ignorant and obviously doesn’t understand their religion nor any others, and has no place in even discussing it.
**You need to realise that the mandate for terrorism and war or any injustice is found in the world view of a certain individual or people. A certain book or document is often in the centre of this world view (Yes also the New Testament has been used even to excuse alienation and violence though the post modern Christian dont find there is any excuses for violence in the New Testament)
Nazism did not have to do with the german race… it had to do with the infiltration of minds …infiltration coming about by an ideolgy best descibed in the books of that ideology, here: *Mein Kampf * written by a Adolf Hitler and which thousands of his followers acted on. Then it became a racial thing… but only then.
The same can be said about “the Little Read” that Mao Zedong wrote and which ligitimised an ideology that cost the lives of millions of people… not because the Chinese are stupid or animal-like but because they were under the influence of an ideology and then legitimised their actions by using that read book. The same is true about the Quran today. Not all Moslems are terrorists… far from it. But they have a problem to explain today how it is that the majority of terrorism that do take place around globe today is done in the name of the Quran and allah…
Peace.
Grace <><**
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
You’ve done a good job at explaining yourself. The Muslims just won’t listen. You have provided excellent links that I have learned from myself and which the Muslims continue to deny. Of course, lying is acceptable to them, so it’s just par for the course.
If we show them their own proof texts and they still deny it, they just won’t listen to reason. I pray for their conversion while at the same time will continue to struggle peacefully against the religion that has brainwashed the Muslims to hate us. I’m glad I’m not the only one that sees this.
Peace…
MW
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R_not
Guest
here is one that might interest you.
Muslim responses to unpleasant Islamic facts:
islam-watch.org/Others/Muslim-Responses-to-Unpleasant-Islamic-Facts.htm
I keep all the websites I get because I find I have to use them over and over again. There are always new people that don’t know something.
I have had to buy extra memory and categorize my info carefully. Then there is so much muslim violence going on in a daily basis I have to trust website’s archives such as jihadwatch.org and others to have the info when I go and do searches.
If I know some websites are intimidated and threatened by muslims to censor, such as youtube and liveleak - I will just copy over the stuff - and videos can be lengthly. Memory is cheap compared to losing the info. And I have backups of all my stuff (I used to be a mainframe systems programmer and one of the rules of the trade is 'back up, back up, back up!!). Always back up your PC on alternate mediums in case the PC, or memory, goes bad. And with this info I find it very important to keep and disseminate.
So, that is my advise to you too if you are trying to keep info - back it up so you don’t lose it.
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R_not
Guest
Since muslims are of different races - that race stuff doesn’t apply to the discussion. Many muslims will accuse us of being racists but that is just a tactic to confuse the issues. Muslims are Arabs, Africans, Americans, Europeans, Asians, and Russians, etc.
And funny you should mention Nazism. the ties between Nazism and islam was/is very strong. This current flow in the tide of muslim violence was helped along by the Nazis and Hitler.
tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
We must also recognize that Hitler was a so called Christian. This is a long read and has many different sections in it but worth it. For me it is an example of how mixing religion with politics - as islam was born to do - causes a big problem. nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
islam is a political movement that uses religion as a front. It is a system that muslims use even for their bathroom duties, to sexual behavior and to eating, etc.
frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=6AA49466-2575-491F-B712-CEA90FCCCD0D
And you can go to frontpagemag.com and do a search on ‘political islam’ and get a wealth of articles on this subject.
Today (May 12th, 2008) they talk about the jihad in courts and to quote from today’s article: ‘Goldstein: It is important to start by defining the Islamist movement as that which seeks to impose tenants of Islam and Sha’aria as a legal, political, religious and judicial authority both in Muslim states and in the West.’
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=3AA08648-E127-458F-BAF1-69A7993D5869
here is the terrorists in Lebanon, a country that was once a tourist haven is nothing but a pig sty of muslim violence now, and we see current proof of the mixture of religion and politics in action:
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=A7583A85-E932-4810-B13A-79229F9BF05A
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Lapell
Guest
I wish this post were kept in mind any time we think of Islam and Muslims. This to me seems very important
L
Lapell
Guest
What do you mean by that? How are you so sure?The church has not taught unfallibly on the matter… you have to remember that.
L
Lapell
Guest
Joero,I still believe the whole of each Surah and of the whole Qor’an must be read in their context. Even though it’s not our Sacred Book!That was GREAT! There is no need for me to borrow the Koran of my friend. Now, it is clear to me that everything the other posters on this thread, especially those who covered up the evilish teaching of Koran, were deceiving us all the truth about Koran.
If I were to recommend, there’s no need for you to apologize about your long and informative posts. I, for one, would like to extend to you my gratitude for divulging those things. THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH.
You know, I copied and pasted it to my PC. It would be of good help for me in debating (informal debates) in our public plaza here in our place, for these Koran people studied our Christian Bible and they almost good at it, while I myself have not read Koran yet and on the defensive side.
Once more, THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! Have a nice day!
L
Lapell
Guest
Joero,I still believe the whole of each Surah and of the whole Qor’an must be read in their context. Even though it’s not our Sacred Book!That was GREAT! There is no need for me to borrow the Koran of my friend. Now, it is clear to me that everything the other posters on this thread, especially those who covered up the evilish teaching of Koran, were deceiving us all the truth about Koran.
If I were to recommend, there’s no need for you to apologize about your long and informative posts. I, for one, would like to extend to you my gratitude for divulging those things. THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH.
You know, I copied and pasted it to my PC. It would be of good help for me in debating (informal debates) in our public plaza here in our place, for these Koran people studied our Christian Bible and they almost good at it, while I myself have not read Koran yet and on the defensive side.
Once more, THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! Have a nice day!
L
Lapell
Guest
I guess something in this computer is tired! I pressed “submit post” and it didn’t show results as quickly as usual! Oh, well…
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R_not
Guest
Too bad the muslims don’t have some rules of conduct - like telling the truth on these sites instead of following their koran and deceiving us.
No one is asking them to fight the radicals because if they haven’t done it so far - they won’t and are in fact, just following their koran and hadiths and deceiving us and supporting the jihadists by telling us either that islam is peaceful, or the radicals are misinterpreting the koran when in fact they are following it to a ‘T’. And there are other things they do to confuse the issue like calling us bigots, islamophobes, etc.
While the word ‘victim’ and ‘persecution’ are thrown around by them while muslims slaughter Christians and other non-muslims worldwide. I suppose that is not being a ‘victim’ or being ‘persecuted’ in a muslim’s viewpoint since they are only infidels.
Heaven forbid that anyone ask the masses of ‘moderates’ to do anything to stop this violence. Even in the countries that they are newly establishing themselves into. With rape, beatings, kidnappings, chaos and destruction going on in Europe and India and elsewhere where they are gaining a strong foothold - heaven forbid we ask them to stop it and speak against those who do such things. No, no, no - we should not even hint at such an action by these so called ‘moderate’ ones. Anyway, no one has asked that of them on these threads - just to stop the deception though has been asked. Instead what happens is that one brave soul might speak up and viola - there goes his head! I personally do not want to see that.
but, if we don’t call them on what they are doing and to change their ways - we are just blowing hot air into the wind. If they don’t stop their utter arrogance that makes them feel superior while we are there as cattle for them to slaughter - then why are we doing this?! On a different thread a muslim woman came out and is thumbing her nose at our laws and committing polygamy. What this means is that they are indeed bringing sharia law into our lands and just ignoring our laws.
As an infidel, I find this disgusting. We give them freedoms and the ability to peacefully raise their families and live - and they thumb their nose at us, our laws and work towards establishing sharia law in our lands whether by violence, or deception - the end result is the same - death to us, conversion, or subjugation of us (dhimmitude).
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Lapell
Guest
There might be correct and peaceful atheists, but many are bothered that there still exist religions and don’t mind spreading false propaganda against them including the Catholic Church.
The Soviet Union was supposed to be atheistic and Communist, with Liberty, Equality and Fraternity… in misery they were all equal indeed. and the Gulag took the lives of 60 million people and altered the fate of many families in their society. Nothing sacred, even family links… So much for atheistic government!!
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Lapell
Guest
You can punish without killing or even hurting the culprit physically, Grace. As a kid, when I did something wrong, mom would send me into my room to think and reflect about what I had done, and not come until I would be ready not to do that wrong thing again. Should she not have done that? I think it would have been a disservice to me!
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