Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[Nickkname]

Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

Why don’t we unite against secularism? Or is that a stupid idea? We all worship the one God after all. The CCC says so. Or is the CC wrong about that?

It’s not that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is wrong, its just that some Catholics just don’t get it.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Ive heard (don’t know for a fact) that the Scandinavian countries are some of the more secualr countries. And they are: Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland. I also think Japan is fairly secular. Sorry, Ive named five. Why are u asking anyway?

Where would you rather live in? Those countries? Or these muslim ones:

Saudi Arabia.

Indonesia.

Turkey.

Tunisia.

Iran.

Where would a Catholic have a better life?

 

[MH84]

I tend to be critical of Islam on here, but not in the same way that others have been. I tend ot want dialog and understanding. Yes, I have issues with Islamic Fundamentalism, but so do some Muslims.

I guess that what you are doing is the point of the forum. I mean there has to be some criticism, but not the outright abuse that Ive noticed. Mainly dialogue and questions.

What about people saying that “their god” or “allah” (notice the lowercase “g” and “a” respectively), is not the same God as ours. I think those people may be unintentionally blaspheming by being disrespectful to “their” God. I mean there is only one God. That’s what we both believe. How we worship, now that’s the difference. Not God Himself.

 

[MH84]

Where would you rather live in? Those countries? Or these muslim ones:

Saudi Arabia.

Indonesia.

Turkey.

Tunisia.

Iran.

Where would a Catholic have a better life?

I havent been to any, but because of the lifestyle I currently have and religion, I would rather live in the secular countries.

But why does that mean its okay to rubbish Muslims and Islam. We are probably more ignorant of their religion, they they are of us in some cases.

Further, does that mean secular societies are the ideal for a Catholic? I doubt it.

 

[MH84]

It’s not that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is wrong, its just that some Catholics just don’t get it.

What dont they get?

 

[chris_molter]

I’m not sure where to start on this, but I think I should point out that approaching Islam as one united religion doesn’t work.

Islam is not the equivalent of Catholicism. It’s the equivalent of Christianity. There are a dizzying myriad of conflicting Islamic sects.

I do think that Muslims such as those who responded thoughtfully to Pope Benedicts Regensburg speech and the Imam in Iraq who placed the Chaldean Catholics under his protection are valued allies in the fight against secularism.

The Jihadis on the other hand… not so much.

 

[LambOfGod]

Catholic Catechism

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

Mother Teresa who’s faith in God the Father is the perfect example of charity to all people.

“Like Jesus we belong to the world living not for ourselves but for others. The joy of the Lord is our strength.”

“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers.”

“There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ:
Jesus is my God,
Jesus is my Spouse,
Jesus is my Life,
Jesus is my only Love,
Jesus is my All in All;
Jesus is my Everything.”

Make us worthy, Lord, to serve those people throughout the world who live and die in poverty and hunger. Give them through our hands, this day, their daily bread, and by our understanding love, give them peace and joy.
I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order.
I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them.

When a poor person dies of hunger, it has not happened because God did not take care of him or her.
It has happened because neither you nor I wanted to give that person what he or she needed.

You and I, we are the Church, no? We have to share with our people. Suffering today is because people are hoarding, not giving, not sharing.
Jesus made it very clear. Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do it to me.
Give a glass of water, you give it to me. Receive a little
child, you receive me.

Amen and Amen

 

[AgnosTheist]

I havent been to any, but because of the lifestyle I currently have and religion, I would rather live in the secular countries.

its no secret that the muslim world has a poorer view & poorer treatment of women & religious minorities.

But why does that mean its okay to rubbish Muslims and Islam. We are probably more ignorant of their religion, they they are of us in some cases.

because the increasing number of muslims in our countries are trying to impose their sharia laws into our system.

Further, does that mean secular societies are the ideal for a Catholic? I doubt it.

A secular society would not call a catholic as idolaters. A muslim society would.

A secular society would not limit your religous freedom. A muslim society would. Like its against islamic law to try to convert a muslim.

A secular society would not make you feel inferior to another religion. A muslim society would make you feel inferior to islam.

 

[East_and_West]

Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

Why don’t we unite against secularism? Or is that a stupid idea? We all worship the one God after all. The CCC says so. Or is the CC wrong about that?

We may worship the same God, loosely, but Islam does not worship God the way that God intended. Its a man made system that contains many dangerous and damning teachings.

 

[MH84]

We may worship the same God, loosely, but Islam does not worship God the way that God intended. Its a man made system that contains many dangerous and damning teachings.

Are you speaking on behalf of God are you? You have no idea how God will judge Muslims. No idea.

Its this kind of thinking (“theyre wrong, Im right”) that will never lead to unity and peace.

 

[East_and_West]

Are you speaking on behalf of God are you? You have no idea how God will judge Muslims. No idea.

Its this kind of thinking (“theyre wrong, Im right”) that will never lead to unity and peace.

I didn’t say that I know how God will judge muslims. But here, let’s allow to God to speak for himself:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except by me.” - Jesus Christ our God incarnate.

 

[ralphinal]

Are you speaking on behalf of God are you? You have no idea how God will judge Muslims. No idea.

Its this kind of thinking (“theyre wrong, Im right”) that will never lead to unity and peace.

Can we have true peace? Let us say that, by the grace of God, all Christians accept Islam as a brother religion and no longer see it as anything but another path to God. Would that insure peace?

 

[MH84]

its no secret that the muslim world has a poorer view & poorer treatment of women & religious minorities.

because the increasing number of muslims in our countries are trying to impose their sharia laws into our system.

**If the CC had the power, she would probably like to impose her laws on society. She has in the past. **

A secular society would not call a catholic as idolaters. A muslim society would.

Can’t you see that atheists can’t comprehend people praying and worshipping, let alone being idolators.

A secular society would not limit your religous freedom. A muslim society would. Like its against islamic law to try to convert a muslim.

**From the Catholic POV: Inquistions. From the secular POV: eliminating God from public acknowledgement in schools and pledges etc. **

A secular society would not make you feel inferior to another religion. A muslim society would make you feel inferior to islam.

And in my opinion Ive heard more belittling from atheists than Muslims.

 

[MH84]

Can we have true peace? Let us say that, by the grace of God, all Christians accept Islam as a brother religion and no longer see it as anything but another path to God. Would that insure peace?

It would be a start. Why are we evvn having dialogue with them then?!

 

[MH84]

I didn’t say that I know how God will judge muslims.

Yeah you did:

We may worship the same God, loosely, but Islam does not worship God the way that God intended. Its a man made system that contains many dangerous and damning teachings.

You said their teachings are damning. What else could you have meant?

 

[ralphinal]

It would be a start. Why are we evvn having dialogue with them then?!

Think so? I don’t. We do not need anything unilaterally. Both sides need to see the other for what it is. Islam is more than a religion, Christianity is not. Christians are not in the government business anymore, while Islam is. It is one reason that the radicals hate us so: they see the lax moral code allowed by our government as a failing of Christianity.

Christians beleive in free will. I can choose right or wrong. Islam as a government does not want anyone to be able to choose.

 

[AgnosTheist]

If the CC had the power, she would probably like to impose her laws on society. She has in the past.

catholics have the power in many countries. you dont understand that politics is an inherent nature in islam. mohammad himself was a dictator.

Can’t you see that atheists can’t comprehend people praying and worshipping, let alone being idolators.

atheists are not organized. muslims are. so what you will get is an organized muslim attack on your religion.

From the Catholic POV: Inquistions. From the secular POV: eliminating God from public acknowledgement in schools and pledges etc.

explain why the secular POV is wrong: why its wrong not to force everyone to acknowledge god.

And in my opinion Ive heard more belittling from atheists than Muslims.

do more research. the islamic belittling of christianity began 1400 years ago as written in the koran in its attacks on core christian principles like the trinity.

 

[East_and_West]

Yeah you did:

You said their teachings are damning. What else could you have meant?

They are damning. They can lead a person to hell. That does not mean that I know the state of any individual muslim soul. Its like cigarettes. I know they are carcinegens bu that does not mean I know the cancer status of any given smoker.

 

[MH84]

Think so? I don’t. We do not need anything unilaterally. Both sides need to see the other for what it is. Islam is more than a religion, Christianity is not. Christians are not in the government business anymore, while Islam is. It is one reason that the radicals hate us so: they see the lax moral code allowed by our government as a failing of Christianity.

Christians beleive in free will. I can choose right or wrong. Islam as a government does not want anyone to be able to choose.

I refer you to the thread title: Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum.

So now that us Catholics have moved beyond the middle age attitudes of the past, we should now condemn Muslims for being slow; for doing what we used to do? Remember they came along 600 years after us. There may come a time when they will change too. I don’t know, you don’t know.

Further, many people here are stereotyping a bunch of Muslims into one group, just as the atheists bunch Christians into one “weak-minded” and “brainwashing” group. Go figure.

 

[MH84]

They are damning. They can lead a person to hell. That does not mean that I know the state of any individual muslim soul. Its like cigarettes. I know they are carcinegens bu that does not mean I know the cancer status of any given smoker.

Honestly, how do you know they are damning? You don’t know. You want them to be because you are Christian. My point is, not to treat Muslims the way athiests criticise us for our beliefs.