Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[paarsurrey]

I suppose we Christians and Islamic scholars are all just misinterpreting the many passages that incite violence, that tell Muslims to kill Christians and Jews and to subdue us. It is you who has the right interpretation, regardless of countless others who see it different.

Hi

I don’t impose my viewpoint on others; but I have also the right to search and research. Is that bad?

Thanks

 

[R_not]

**
The important thing is that Islam means peace, complete peace. It should be looked upon as such and as a truely natural religion.**

You seem to be right.

No it doesn’t - it means submission. That is the misconceptin muslims want us to think it means. It is more about genocide - killing infidels, enslaving infidels, lying to them and stealing from them - basically doing anything they want to do to infidels. It is about the controlling of every aspect of a muslim’s life and mind - from bathroom behavior, sexual behavior, financial behavior, etc. The ultimate fascism - brainwashing and control.

Because infidels are not submitting to islam they view us as less than pigs and feces - kufir - and they are told anything can be done to us.

If it meant peace we wouldn’t be having these types of discussions about islam because their violent past and present wouldn’t be an issue. It would be more along the lines of Buddhism and it is more like the opposite of Buddhism.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi

I don’t impose my viewpoint on others; but I have also the right to search and research. Is that bad?

Thanks

Of course you have the right to do so and I encourage that. My point was why should I believe your interpretion of the Quran instead of Islamic scholars and theologians? It’s really easy to say that you don’t agree with an interpretation. You have to have a reason for having a different one though.

Peace…

MW

 

[planter654]

No it doesn’t - it means submission. That is the misconceptin muslims want us to think it means. It is more about genocide - killing infidels, enslaving infidels, lying to them and stealing from them - basically doing anything they want to do to infidels. It is about the controlling of every aspect of a muslim’s life and mind - from bathroom behavior, sexual behavior, financial behavior, etc. The ultimate fascism - brainwashing and control.

Because infidels are not submitting to islam they view us as less than pigs and feces - kufir - and they are told anything can be done to us.

If it meant peace we wouldn’t be having these types of discussions about islam because their violent past and present wouldn’t be an issue. It would be more along the lines of Buddhism and it is more like the opposite of Buddhism.

I ask we have no violent past? You say it is about controlling? do you know any Muslims? Are you saying all Muslims are this?

 

[planter654]

Whites did not control blacks, used them as slaves, tortured them, abused them, murdered them, falsely accused them, and done much more that could not be said on this site. Please God have mercy on us all?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I ask we have no violent past? You say it is about controlling? do you know any Muslims? Are you saying all Muslims are this?

It’s impossible to know. It is difficult to understand why Muslims remain Muslims when they know of Islams history of violence sanctioned by your holy books. If you are peaceable why not convert to the religion of the Prince of Peace? Remaining in that violent religion only makes us believe that you are not peaceable.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Whites did not control blacks, used them as slaves, tortured them, abused them, murdered them, falsely accused them, and done much more that could not be said on this site. Please God have mercy on us all?

Would it help you if I changed my skin color?

CDL

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi

I think I did explain it; but in short I would explain again. Muhammad is highest or the most outstanding among the ProphetsMessengesr of GodAllahYHWH in rank; that is there in the peaceful Quran but it is nowhere mentioned in Quran that Muhammad was the last prophet in period of time. Muhammad himself prophesised for the coming of the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, in so many words; hence it must be a wrong concept of the MullahIslam, except that a canonical PorphetMessenger cannot logically come.

The PromisedMessiah has to be peaceful; so the second also stands corrected.

If you think there is a place in peaceful Quran where violence has been mentioned in your opinion; then kindly select only **one such most violent verse **with its usual context of five preceding and five following verses, that could be discussed here.

I think that helps

Thanks

To which I replied:
Mystic Warrior:

Delta is right. Look at the WHOLE Sura 9 (Al-Tawba), but especially these words of endearment found below. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside after reading it.

From Quran Explorer

Quote:
28) Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. (29) And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! (30) They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God.There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)! (31) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse. (32) He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse. (33) O ye who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom, (34) On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which ye hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what ye used to hoard.

Surely you would agree that this is an incitement to resort to violence. I have no patience for a faith that tells me that this is okay. I also have no patience with those who seek to hide that truth of violence, those who defend that truth of violence and those that carry out this venemous doctrine of violence.

MW

So, now that you’ve been shown the verses, what have you to say? You’ve been shown a small part of the violent texts that exists in the Quran. Should we find more? It is not a peaceful religion, no matter how many times you guys say it. It’s right there in your holy text. Don’t blame us - blame your prophet for writing it down.

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Whites did not control blacks, used them as slaves, tortured them, abused them, murdered them, falsely accused them, and done much more that could not be said on this site. Please God have mercy on us all?

The difference is that it wasn’t in our holy books nor a commandment from our God to do so. Your god and prophet sanctioned it, supported it and carried it out per your holy book. It’s one thing for humans to be sinful and corrupt. It’s quite another for your god to command it to be that way.

MW

 

[Lapell]

now about ‘hell on earth’, people grieve more for someone that they knew (who was murdered) rather than someone who had never been born. dont you agree?

then you don’t know much about the mothers who had their child aborted!!! Even when they don’t grieve for them immediately, they often grieve them later, and then it might be for a long time!

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by Mystic Warrior
I suppose we Christians and Islamic scholars are all just misinterpreting the many passages that incite violence, that tell Muslims to kill Christians and Jews and to subdue us. It is you who has the right interpretation, regardless of countless others who see it different.

**There are no verses inciting the Muslims to kill Christians and Jews. But there are verses to kill the enemies of Islam and the enemies of the Muslims. That means Kafirs who try to fight the Muslims… That is quite natural. It is not like the unnatural theory of the christians to offer the other cheek.
That was good in the time of Jesus under Roman rule. But it was not for ever.

Now you have got both interpretations. There is onefrom the militant Muslims and another from the moderate Muslims. And Islam means “Peace”. You can chose any meaning you like. If you chose the meaning taken by militants then you are supporting them for no good reason.

Or you can chose the meaning of the moderate Muslims (Who are surely right) and hlp them to bring about some education amongst the militants.**

 

[planter654]

Would it help you if I changed my skin color?

CDL

No! but it would help if we do not point the finger with the attitude that I am better than you Muslims. We cannot judge others when we ourselves have done the same thing in our own history. It is saying that all Catholics are Holy, no one has ever murdered, committed adultrey, have hatered towards others, are all loving, no drunkards, no child molesters, none have done evil, or not start wars with other countries, none our liars, none control other humans etc. Every race on the face of the earth all have the same sins, problems within their own race. All have saints within their own race or religious faith. All have evil also within them, don’t you think. Our greatest sin within all races is "our own individual ego, self love, pride etc. Jesus did not walk up to just this race or that race, Jesus approached all. Jesus said: It is finished ONCE AND FOR ALL! God Bless

 

[planter654]

**There are no verses inciting the Muslims to kill Christians and Jews. But there are verses to kill the enemies of Islam and the enemies of the Muslims. That means Kafirs who try to fight the Muslims… That is quite natural. It is not like the unnatural theory of the christians to offer the other cheek.
That was good in the time of Jesus under Roman rule. But it was not for ever.

Now you have got both interpretations. There is onefrom the militant Muslims and another from the moderate Muslims. And Islam means “Peace”. You can chose any meaning you like. If you chose the meaning taken by militants then you are supporting them for no good reason.

Or you can chose the meaning of the moderate Muslims (Who are surely right) and hlp them to bring about some education amongst the militants.**

Do we not go out and kill the enemy and doing so do we not kill thousands of innocent women, men, children also etc, do you think? God Bless

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

**There are no verses inciting the Muslims to kill Christians and Jews. But there are verses to kill the enemies of Islam and the enemies of the Muslims. That means Kafirs who try to fight the Muslims… That is quite natural. It is not like the unnatural theory of the christians to offer the other cheek.
That was good in the time of Jesus under Roman rule. But it was not for ever.
**
Oh really? What about the verses I keep repeating on this thread like:

Sura 9 (Al-Tawba
29) And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! (30) They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God.There is no god save Him.

Oh yes, surely the moderates are right! I suggest you moderates educate your brethren then.

MW

 

[planter654]

The difference is that it wasn’t in our holy books nor a commandment from our God to do so. Your god and prophet sanctioned it, supported it and carried it out per your holy book. It’s one thing for humans to be sinful and corrupt. It’s quite another for your god to command it to be that way.

MW

I am a Catholic white woman! What did God do to those who disobeyed him when they made and Idol out of a cow, Moses remember? I am confused now! Do you fully understand their beliefs and the Quran? Or is this also some man made laws, or group of individuals who have taken upon themselves to do these things against their Quarn? We also do not have everyone on earth that are all Catholics, there is also a brake off of others, within our own race have created their own interpretations, churches etc of the Bible also is there not?

God Bless

 

[Booklover]

Making that statement that all Islam or muslims are terrorists is judgemental and not true? NO MORE THAN ALL CATHOLICS ARE ALL CHILD MOLESTERS because of others SINS or ELITIST??- think about that and do not point the finger IF YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SINS TO BE EXPOSED ALSO!

I am a Catholic, I have chosen to practice my faith–we are all in need of forgiveness and---- “DO NOT FORGET THAT”!!—

God created us all!

When Bararbas complained to Jesus in the Temple about all the Romans who killed 10,000 thousand of believers, Bararbas wanted, asked Jesus to do something about this!

But Jesus reply to Barabas was-- Jesus said: “FAR BETTER FOR YOU IF YOU PRAY FOR THEM”

God Bless

Can you give us the reference for this conversation between Jesus and Barabbas???

Vickie

 

[AgnosTheist]

I am a Catholic white woman! What did God do to those who disobeyed him when they made and Idol out of a cow, Moses remember?

The man who actually made the Golden cow was forgiven. Because he was the brother of Moses. The rest of the idolaters were tortured & massacred.

 

[planter654]

Also have we not committ sins that we are “told not to do” which is written in the Holy Bible? Whites not all but many whites also hated blacks through out history would you not say this is not so today? So what are you trying to compare apples with------ what or whom? God Bless

 

[planter654]

Lets take the logs out of our eyes before we think we can take the splinter out of our brothers eyes, do you think? God loves us all dearly! God Bless pray pray pray for all!

 

[AgnosTheist]

Whites not all but many whites also hated blacks through out history would you not say this is not so today?

Many cultures (like china & india) discriminate against dark skin, not just the whites. But racism is a lot less today than in the past.