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Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum
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R
R_not
Guest
This is from that website you gave to me:
“…t the top of this hierarchy are free Muslim males, the cream of humanity. Below them, in descending order of humanity, are: Muslim male slaves, free Muslim women, Muslim female slaves, the males of the “People of the Book” (Jews and Christians), and, then, the female of the ‘People of the Book’.”
I wonder if anyone has told sister amy that she rates below a slave!
Ok, I put up the gooney looking smiley face - I just couldn’t help myself.
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
Wow, so that’s how my brother and sister Islamists view us? Is that how the god Allah views us? I guess it’s because we profess Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. What a terrible thing to believe, huh? Well, I’ll still follow my Lord Jesus and bow before Him as He sits on His throne in Heaven. I will not bow before this god who denies my Lord.This is from that website you gave to me:
“…t the top of this hierarchy are free Muslim males, the cream of humanity. Below them, in descending order of humanity, are: Muslim male slaves, free Muslim women, Muslim female slaves, the males of the “People of the Book” (Jews and Christians), and, then, the female of the ‘People of the Book’.”
I wonder if anyone has told sister amy that she rates below a slave!
Ok, I put up the gooney looking smiley face - I just couldn’t help myself.
Peace…
MW
R
R_not
Guest
Take note that the people who are not Jews, Christians and before they wiped them out - Zorastrians - are not even considered as humans. That goes for all these atheists, and also Buddhists, Hindus, and others of pagan religions.
Here is the rest of a couple of paragraphs from above:
*"Finally, the rest of humanity comes in dead last (excuse the pun); because they lack a soul they are regarded as worthless having no rights whatsoever. This unfortunate final grouping includes Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, and others. But before Jews and Christians celebrate escaping last-place in this uniquely Islamic popularity contest, the fine print should first be carefully studied. Quotes referencing Christians and Jews from the Qur’an include: – “Worst of Creatures, Perverse, and Friends of Satan”. The clear direction from Muhammad appears to be that Muslims are not allowed to even be friends or take favors from Jews and Christians, unless that devotion/tax is extracted by force or threat of force. Christians and Jews then and now hold a special place in Islamic theology, and are presented in a hateful manner in the Qur’an and in modern Islamic theology today. In the end they were regarded with contempt by Muhammad, the final words reported from the mouth of the dying Prophet were a curse on them “Allah’s damnation be on the Jews and the Christians ….”
98:6 Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
5:51 O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)."*
What one thinks is a ‘friendship’ is nothing but deception to make them appear friendly and benign.
Basically, studying their history will show you what they do in every single country they migrate to.
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
Yeah, I guess I’m glad I returned to Christianity. As a Buddhist, I would be as low as an animal. I guess you, Booklover and your separated brother MW will have to take our stand together.
I only have praise for my Lord Jesus Christ and praise His Holy Name. May all people come to accept Him, body, blood, soul and Divinity!
Peace…
MW
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The topic of the thread is very important and crucial for the world peace. The Catholic thinking which is reflected on this respected forum is by and large charitable; but sometimes it is felt that its consistent approach needs that its elements should be expressed more clearly, not necessarily for political purposes but for broader human understanding so that it is cherished by everybody; though positive criticism is always beneficial.
My primary concern is humanity, peace and religion - which is more concerned about the moral and spiritual needs of man.
- It is very clear that MullahIslam is very vocal and they follow MullahSharea of the MedievalAge. Their concepts are no doubt violent and they would like to convert everybody by sword to the precincts of MullahIslam.
- We peaceful Ahmadis are being persecuted in every way by these people of the MullahIslam. Perhaps nobody else, therefore, knows of their intentions more than us as we are directly persecuted by them on daily basis for the last one hundred or more years.
- It is also a fact that the majority of the Muslims are not with them; they are peaceful and don’t ascribe to their violent views, but since they are peaceful, they won’t be vocal. They also won’t clash with them. These may be termed as moderates.
- Keeping that in view; the correct approach would be to support the moderates and streghten them.
a. In stead people in the Western society unconsciously tend to support the MullahIslam theoretically.
b. They would insist that the truthful Islam is that of the MullahIslam or MullahSharea; and would most fervently bring out the material which supports the MullahIslam and is prepared by them in line with their approach.
c. They would incite the moderates to be vocal and/or fight out with the MullahIslam. This the moderates would never do as it is against their very nature and why should they change their peaceful nature when they are not concerned with the dirty politics.
d. So, trying to convince them to fight out with the violent one’s would never work and would be counterproductive. - Supporting of the MullahIslam consciously or uncosiously endangers the world peace; and they would be happy with this approach of the masses in the Western society and their partners in this connection.
- The end result of this would be a consensus in the Western society, religious or secular, to wipe out all the Muslims from the globe. Peacefully this cannot be achieved and in real term it is suggesting to kill all the Muslim populace totaling 4,992,663,560. The question is; is such thinking peaceful? I don’t think this is the thinking of the Catholics in human terms.
- Catholics! Please don’t let the MullahIslam draw their inferences from Quran/Islam/Muhammad, which are in fact not there. Quran/Islam/Muhammad doesn’t support MullahIslam in reality. If you think that it benefits Catholicism in any way; then you are not consistent in your approach.
Thanks
H
holdencaulfield
Guest
If you actually think that Christians, Jew, and Muslims will ever unite against atheism think again. We have been killing each other for almost 1500 years, I don’t think it will ever stop.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Violence first generates in the human mind; if it does not get a theoretical support there, it won’t transform in reality; my intention is it does not get a support in the mind. Then of course we could also pray for peace.
Thanks
J
Joero
Guest
There are also good points in the teaching of Koran, as other muslims,friends of mine told me. But in some of the teachings in Koran such as the following: ( please don’t misconstrued me as a Koran evangelizer or an anti-Koran, for i have not read Koran. I am just taking notes from a muslim friend)
Sorah 9: 5 - it dictates to kill all the non-believers.
Sorah 9: 33 - it dictates to kill all the infidels.
Sorah 9: 36 - it dictates that Islam should prevail.
Just correct me if I am wrong in noting this from a muslim friend.
Sorah 9: 5 - it dictates to kill all the non-believers.
Sorah 9: 33 - it dictates to kill all the infidels.
Sorah 9: 36 - it dictates that Islam should prevail.
Just correct me if I am wrong in noting this from a muslim friend.
G
GraceDK
Guest
This tradition about prophet Muhammeds actions was posted by a former muslim on www.islam-watch.org
This is one of the reasons why I find Islam dangerous. For the Christian the role model is Christ. For the Muslim the role model is Muhammed. I’d like to hear any Muslem explain this away…
**Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died. **
This is one of the reasons why I find Islam dangerous. For the Christian the role model is Christ. For the Muslim the role model is Muhammed. I’d like to hear any Muslem explain this away…
**Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died. **
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Sam_777
Guest
Hi Grace,
What to tell you, its part of our violence & torture in Islam
, after God The Most High have shown us his love & mercy through Jesus:heart:, we are going back to violence again through Islam, how is that possible!, when you raise your child, maybe you give him/her some harsh words while that child in the learning phase, but when he/she is adult, its really hard to give him/her such type of words, therefore, the same thing should be applied to religions.
S
swariffin
Guest
I don’t think there is another in this forum except two of us. BTW, I am in the same condition as you, not a true Indonesia. BTW, there is no true Indonesian anyway, except the decendent of the Phytecanthropus Erectus, found in Sangiran/Mojokerto.
R
R_not
Guest
Our church is wrong then.
I
inJESUS
Guest
The Church’s is correct
. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
the church is not saying they believe in the same view of God.
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth…
ditto.
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
ditto.
There is One God. If someone says he believes in the only One God, then he is worshipping the only God , the Creator, even if he thinks God is an alien living on Mars. The church is not saying they believe in the same view God, but this does not mean that because they have a different view, then another deity must exist.
R
R_not
Guest
No one is even suggesting that we kill a billion people - unlike the intentions of muslims to kill billions of people of other religions.
And it is not clear who are the true moderates vs the ‘moderates’ that do indeed practice islam but are deceiving us since that is what they are told to do by the koran/mohammed.
So, how does one tell the difference? how do we deal with them who are in our country, lumping together in groups in order to gain numbers so they can vote their own into office, get what they want - sharia law - which to me indicates that they are not very moderate. Dearborn Michigan is one such example of what is happening. one muslim on this website who posts quite often - sister amy - even admitted to committing a felony and is in a polygamous marriage which is muslims practicing sharia law in our lands. and it is helped along by living among other muslims who allow it since it is sharia law - their islam law.
We are at a point in history where we can see so called peaceful muslims who have migrated to many countries - even Europe - and when their numbers increase and the populace are told time and again that they are peaceful - they end out not being so peaceful and in fact they are the biggest welfare recipients (how can polygamous fathers support so many wives and kids?! - they cannot.)
yes, I doubt the majority of ‘moderate’ muslims especially when I hear the stuff that they write on these boards - a total misconstruing of what is in their koran. They are telling us one thing while their koran says another and when their own prophet was not a nice guy but instead a rapist, enslaver, thief, liar, torturer, and murderer.
There has been so many websites referenced that maybe you can go back and read some of them and catch up on where we are with islam.
How can you have peace when even ‘moderate’ muslims only know death to infidels, conversion of infidels or subjugation (dhimmitude) is the end result of this peace - in our own lands?!
And now with even the ‘moderates’ in our lands insisting on segregagion because their own koran says that infidels are dirty? Gee, they even look at their own women as dirty. But they will tell us that it is a religious thing and we idiots don’t look any further - for if we did we would find it is because they look at the muslim male as the supreme ones and the rest of us as dirt that should not be included with them - even in their bathrooms, swimming pools, etc.
We have our own church not reading the koran, hadiths, or sharia law - and also don’t have a clue as to current or past history of islamic imperialism and their current goals telling us that islam is equal to all other religions - when they don’t even think that - they think they are superior, hence their idea of segregation and peace don’t match ours.
Basically, either we insist our laws are enforced - or we succumb like all other nations. Personally, if I were in charge I would stop all construction of all mosques. Make sure their schools are not tax payer supported and insist that they be done what we did to blacks decades past - integrate them. Allow for no special religious reasons why there should be segregation and if we find polygamists that they are taken before our laws and courts. And get rid of all saudi funding and organizations in our schools and anywhere! This is just a beginning and unless we get a handle on this - we will go the way that even Europe is going. But, like our media never tells us - you will only find out about most of what is happening if you go to alternate news sources - jihadwatch.org, frontpagemag.com, jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch, faithfreedom.org, etc.
R
R_not
Guest
And I don’t understand what you say about the koran and such not supporting mullahs… and whatever. The koran is a book of nastiness to infidels. that has also been brought out in this thread. It does indeed support the violent jihadis and also supports other types of jihad against the infidels - of which the so called ‘moderates’ are ordered to support.
Since I have read the koran, hadiths, the history of mohammed and islam and keep abreast of its present history - it is indeed violent and those masses of ‘moderates’ - well, I doubt that most of them are that moderate anymore since I see countries such as Indonesia that is suppsed to be moderate kill and torture Christians, destroy their churches, etc. And Lebanon is being brought to its knees while killing and torturing Christisns and also lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis. Not only Gaza which has the palestinians in there chosing hatred and disgust over just establishing a life for themselves and their children. And Turkey - a supposedly moderate country - radicalizing. Everywhere there are masses of ‘moderates’ the Christians, Jews and others are tormented, tortured and killed.
It shows me that muslims goals are to increase their numbers in a country and to drive out the infidels - by killing, torturing and subjugating. Their words and deeds do not match when their numbers are not sufficient and when their numbers grow - their words and deeds start meshing.
If you are so peaceful - go to your own websites and gather the masses and convert them. Why are they on a Catholic website doing this?! I see a lot of colorful talk but no action in your own communities. The actions could be started now by stopping all the segregation that muslims are getting inforced all around the USA - and elsewhere - in countries that are not a cesspool that practices sharia law yet.
Since I have read the koran, hadiths, the history of mohammed and islam and keep abreast of its present history - it is indeed violent and those masses of ‘moderates’ - well, I doubt that most of them are that moderate anymore since I see countries such as Indonesia that is suppsed to be moderate kill and torture Christians, destroy their churches, etc. And Lebanon is being brought to its knees while killing and torturing Christisns and also lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis. Not only Gaza which has the palestinians in there chosing hatred and disgust over just establishing a life for themselves and their children. And Turkey - a supposedly moderate country - radicalizing. Everywhere there are masses of ‘moderates’ the Christians, Jews and others are tormented, tortured and killed.
It shows me that muslims goals are to increase their numbers in a country and to drive out the infidels - by killing, torturing and subjugating. Their words and deeds do not match when their numbers are not sufficient and when their numbers grow - their words and deeds start meshing.
If you are so peaceful - go to your own websites and gather the masses and convert them. Why are they on a Catholic website doing this?! I see a lot of colorful talk but no action in your own communities. The actions could be started now by stopping all the segregation that muslims are getting inforced all around the USA - and elsewhere - in countries that are not a cesspool that practices sharia law yet.
G
GraceDK
Guest
R, I agree with you here…
The god of Islam is not the same as the Christian God. Saying so would be self-contraditory. I must continuously stand up for Christianity by saying that.
The church has not taught unfallibly on the matter… you have to remember that.
P
planten
Guest
**The killing mentioned is not true. Islam is a peaceful religion and advises peace, upholds peace. But if it is opposed physically and attacked then only it permits the Muslims to retaliate (fight back).Otherwise, there is no fight, no war.
The verse mentioned above (9:5) is special for the pagans of Makkah who had driven the prophet out of his city (Makkah) and he had to run away to madinah. The Pagans did not let the prophet rest there in Madinah too. They attacked Madinah quite a few times with large armies. But they were unable to damage the Muslim city.
Later when, the city of Makkah was liberated then it was ordered to kill the polytheists after four months amnesty. They could live for 4 months. After that they were not to be seen in that city. That was not too bad for them.**
G
GraceDK
Guest
I
IHF
Guest
For years we have divided ourselves by race and have always had racial tensions, even today.
I feel that the new division is going to be religion and that time is coming.
Christians vs. Muslims
As Muslims spread at an alarming rate across Europe and the globe into majority Christian nations the tensions and backlash will swell and push back against Muslim tyranny will begin, it already has begun.
With their birthrates out doing Christians 3 to 1 it is only a matter of time before Muslims are the majority in many countries.
Read Mark Steyn’s book called America Alone.
I feel that the new division is going to be religion and that time is coming.
Christians vs. Muslims
As Muslims spread at an alarming rate across Europe and the globe into majority Christian nations the tensions and backlash will swell and push back against Muslim tyranny will begin, it already has begun.
With their birthrates out doing Christians 3 to 1 it is only a matter of time before Muslims are the majority in many countries.
Read Mark Steyn’s book called America Alone.
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