Anyone saddened by the Irish vote as some of us are?

[LPS]

Dear All,

Anyone saddened by the Irish vote as some of us are?.

Extremely saddened. My heart aches with sorrow for them … and for our dear LORD.

 

[BarbG]

It’s difficult for me to believe Ireland’s vote in favor of same-sex marriage – I live in San Francisco and the “gays” have literally taken over the city – I’ve seen some situations that I would hate to put in this forum a/c they are so embarrassing.
The Church had to close the grammar school in the area where most of the gays live-- two of my best friends went to that grammar school many years ago.

 

[pianistclare]

I think the majority of CAF posters are indeed saddened, and praying for the hearts of people around the world to be open to the will of God.
All of this occurs because people do not understand the church’s teaching on SSA.
Not the least bit.
Sex has become a god in and of itself in our age.

I take heart in knowing that Our Lord has everything in His hands…will continue to protect those who love and adore Him, and that He will not abandon us.

 

[JimmyG88]

I think the majority of CAF posters are indeed saddened, and praying for the hearts of people around the world to be open to the will of God.
All of this occurs because people do not understand the church’s teaching on SSA.
Not the least bit.
Sex has become a god in and of itself in our age.

I take heart in knowing that Our Lord has everything in His hands…will continue to protect those who love and adore Him, and that He will not abandon us.

It’s a matter of civics not religion

 

[kozlosap]

We will just have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe in the state taking children out of families of gay couples, the divorced or remarried, polygamous families, or what have you – not on the basis of those things alone.

I don’t see any reversal of state recognition of gay unions happening. It has spread to countries around the world and isn’t slowing down.

It’s a matter of civics not religion

I agree with your short but very true statement. I read somewhere this morning that Catholic traditionalists believe that the Irish vote was based on poor education of the Faithful, when that is just an excuse to make it seem like the world is not changing, when in reality, those who voted for the new law were following their own values taught to them by the Church and not dogma. Does anyone here really think that 60% of the Irish did not know what the Church rules are when it comes to LGBTQ issues, especially marriage equality? I think that the human heart is at play here and when the synod is held this fall concerning family issues this is bound to come up, especially around the dogma concerning divorced people being able to participate in receiving the Eucharist. I totally understand that I am generally a lone wolf in my thoughts concerning social issues.

 

[JimmyG88]

I agree with your short but very true statement. I read somewhere this morning that Catholic traditionalists believe that the Irish vote was based on poor education of the Faithful, when that is just an excuse to make it seem like the world is not changing, when in reality, those who voted for the new law were following their own values taught to them by the Church and not dogma. Does anyone here really think that 60% of the Irish did not know what the Church rules are when it comes to LGBTQ issues, especially marriage equality? I think that the human heart is at play here and when the synod is held this fall concerning family issues this is bound to come up, especially around the dogma concerning divorced people being able to participate in receiving the Eucharist. I totally understand that I am generally a lone wolf in my thoughts concerning social issues.

There was a lot of smoke and mirrors in this referendum. The fact remains that Ireland isn’t a theocracy despite the best efforts of Eamon DeValera and Archbishop McQuaid. No one demanded that the Catholic Church changed its teaching just that the state gave the same recognition to all partners who have undergone a civil ceremony (some would argue that no one in a partnership that wasn’t solemnised in the presence of a clergyman is largely a religious irrelevancy anyway). To paraphrase Robert Louis Stevenson this form of marriage is just a close friendship recognised by the police

 

[MariaChristi]

Given that more and more abuse revelations are coming out still… given that all seem to ignore the fact that nearly 40% voted no… given that the majority of the clergy are too old to work miracles which fact as the decline of the clergy is due to the child abuse… I think folk are theologising the vote far too much and thus will miss the real causes. Also bishops are ineffectual as they are scared of losing priests and so discipline is lax as we see from ACP and the newer Irish Catholic Society… which is as lax and pro “inclusive” as ACP…Few can now speak with any authority… and Archbishop Martin is the only sane and humble voice to be heard

Dear Rosebud,

Thanks for your reply and comments. I went to the ACP (Association of Catholic Priests) webpage. I had not heard of it before and was saddened still more by the news there of a “secret meeting” to urge acceptance of same sex unions. I’m not sure what “the newer Irish Catholic Society” is – when I searched on Google I was led to “The Irish Catholic” newspaper, and also to the “Ancient Order of Hibernians”. Maybe you could clarify that part of your reply? Thanks.

I agree Archbishop Martin does seem to be a “sane and humble voice to be heard”.

The clergy of Ireland (as well as clergy in other countries) who have been guilty and arrogant will need to answer to God. How sad for men who are trying to live a holy priesthood! How sad for the laity who have suffered and are suffering from “bad shepherds”! May God have mercy on His Church - all over the world-- and continue to raise up the saints we need for this, our time, in history.

Mary, Mother of the Church, pray for us.

 

[MariaChristi]

I am not surprised when I look how eager the bishops in Europe work to destroy the Catholic Faith and replace it with feel good theology. By saying that homosexual intercourse is sin, I am already isolated in the German Catholic Church.

Dear Andre,

Thanks for your reply and my heart goes out to you as you experience isolation. The Lord Jesus wept over Jerusalem, (Luke 13:34 and 19:41) and we can weep with Him, as we see persons unwilling to obey God’s revelation in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church. I was not surprised at Ireland’s fall from grace, but how my heart aches over it!

 

[MariaChristi]

Extremely saddened. My heart aches with sorrow for them … and for our dear LORD.

Dear LPS,

Thanks for your reply. My heart aches too for our dear Lord and for all who seem so self-absorbed, and desirous of being “politically correct” they are willing to prefer the way of limited intellects to the Infinite Wisdom of God. How sad for Ireland to abandon the beauty of Truth as God has revealed in His Word!

Perhaps each of us needs prayerfully to examine our conscience and ask the Lord what He would have us do to stem the tide of Godlessness in our world. Mary, mother of the Church pray for us.

 

[MariaChristi]

It’s difficult for me to believe Ireland’s vote in favor of same-sex marriage – I live in San Francisco and the “gays” have literally taken over the city – I’ve seen some situations that I would hate to put in this forum a/c they are so embarrassing.
The Church had to close the grammar school in the area where most of the gays live-- two of my best friends went to that grammar school many years ago.

Dear Barb G,

Thanks for your reply. It seems unbelievable and yet it is not difficult for me as an Irish American Catholic, with family and friends who have visited Ireland over the years. Also if you read the blog which I linked in my original post to begin this thread, there are two excellent articles linked within the blog which can help us understand this collapse of Faith in Ireland. What astonishes me is the rapidity with which it happened to country which had been Catholic For centuries.

The blog also points out lessons for the USA (and other countries). If you and/or others have not yet read the blog entry, please see HERE - it is truly worth your time.

 

[Merrick]

Let me get this straight. You don’t believe in the state taking children from polygamous families?? Then you must not be aware of the plight of children in Colorado City Utah or Arizona. Do you also approve of child brides, 12 and 13 years of age forced to marry older men? The children of such unions frequently go hungry because Of other jealous wives. They don’t receive an education and know nothing of the outside world. If you’re a girl, expect to be a child bride. Worse if you’re a boy, by the time he’s a teen he’s thrown out of the community because you see he’s a rival to the older men. These boys are called lost boys because they have no home. Oh, and the police in this town are not impartial. The children of such unions also suffer beatings.

If the wives run away, every effort is made to get them back, even through the courts. So once again you’re not on top of things. The children of such unions as well as the wives are forced to remain hidden.

Furthermore, when same sex marriages divorce, and children are involved child custody fights abound, just like heterosexual marriage only now the lines are blurred. Two mothers, two fathers? I really feel sorry for the children of these unions.

No, I don’t believe in children being taken from polygamous families for that reason alone. If there is incest, child brides, physical abuse and so on – that’s a different matter. But a kid growing up in a home with a father and three mothers who are loving and supportive? Nope, I would never have the state interfere with that. And there are polygamous families that don’t meet the stereotype you portray: they are not all Mormon fundamentalists. Not to mention all the polygamy in the Old Testament.

 

[Merrick]

I agree with your short but very true statement. I read somewhere this morning that Catholic traditionalists believe that the Irish vote was based on poor education of the Faithful, when that is just an excuse to make it seem like the world is not changing, when in reality, those who voted for the new law were following their own values taught to them by the Church and not dogma. Does anyone here really think that 60% of the Irish did not know what the Church rules are when it comes to LGBTQ issues, especially marriage equality? I think that the human heart is at play here and when the synod is held this fall concerning family issues this is bound to come up, especially around the dogma concerning divorced people being able to participate in receiving the Eucharist. I totally understand that I am generally a lone wolf in my thoughts concerning social issues.

I know, I’m constantly reading on this forum and elsewhere that the result of people’s differences with the Church – whether it involves contraception, other sexual ethics, or even folk religion (that latter one often strikes me as a bit racist if it implies that ethnic minorities are always ignorant when their practices diverge from Church teaching: not the case) – is the result of ignorance. Maybe often it is, but I don’t think it can always be put down to that. People know very well the Church’s stance on homosexuality.

 

[JimmyG88]

No, I don’t believe in children being taken from polygamous families for that reason alone. If there is incest, child brides, physical abuse and so on – that’s a different matter. But a kid growing up in a home with a father and three mothers who are loving and supportive? Nope, I would never have the state interfere with that.

No one (not even God) suggested that Abraham’s children should be taken off him and he was a bit of a boy! Of course many Muslims are polygamous are we saying that we would remove their children?

 

[MariaChristi]

I think the majority of CAF posters are indeed saddened, and praying for the hearts of people around the world to be open to the will of God.
All of this occurs because people do not understand the church’s teaching on SSA.
Not the least bit.
Sex has become a god in and of itself in our age.

I take heart in knowing that Our Lord has everything in His hands…will continue to protect those who love and adore Him, and that He will not abandon us.

Dear pianistclare,

Thanks for your reply. While we are saddened greatly to see this collapse of the Faith in Ireland, we need to implore God’s grace to learn from what He has permitted there. If you haven’t yet read the blog which I linked in my Original Post I hope you will find time to read it HERE.

There are two excellent articles also linked within the blog which can help us understand better how such a thing could happen in a country which had been so fervently Catholic for centuries. You are right of course that God remains in control, but we have our part to play in lifting this world upwards toward God or enabling more persons to fall prey to the evil one who prowls around seeking someone to devour (cf 1 Peter 5: 8). There is no “standing still” in our spiritual lives - we either go forward and grow in holiness or we go backwards.

As one member of the Body of Christ grows, we all grow; but as one member turns from God’s Truth, we all suffer.

By God’s grace we need to overcome evil by doing good – and we find our Way, our Truth and our Life in Jesus. We cannot follow Him if we do not remain in His Word. If we do not listen to what He tells us in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church, we are “easy prey” for satan is the father of lies and he will always try to make evil look good so that we choose evil. We need to listen to the whole of Scripture and not just what part we like or think “fits” our life-style.

Someone on this thread already mentioned the “feel good” theology that is proposed by many today. The difficult way of the cross is not so popular with the modern mind and heart. You are right also in observing many do not really understand Catholic teachings are based on God’s Word. Nor do some sincerely seek to find out what the Church actually teaches. It is easier merely re-enforcing one another’s false notions. God help us!

Mary Immaculate, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, help us to know the Truth, to love the Truth, and to live the Truth as you did on this earth and now enjoy forever in heaven.

 

[Rosebud77]

I know, I’m constantly reading on this forum and elsewhere that the result of people’s differences with the Church – whether it involves contraception, other sexual ethics, or even folk religion (that latter one often strikes me as a bit racist if it implies that ethnic minorities are always ignorant when their practices diverge from Church teaching: not the case) – is the result of ignorance. Maybe often it is, but I don’t think it can always be put down to that. People know very well the Church’s stance on homosexuality.

With so many priests advocating SSM this has become more than a little blurred, to so many. Many I have spoken to had no idea of the Biblical or Church teaching. only that they must be KIND and LOVING and allow SSM.

 

[MariaChristi]

I know, I’m constantly reading on this forum and elsewhere that the result of people’s differences with the Church – whether it involves contraception, other sexual ethics, or even folk religion (that latter one often strikes me as a bit racist if it implies that ethnic minorities are always ignorant when their practices diverge from Church teaching: not the case) – is the result of ignorance. Maybe often it is, but I don’t think it can always be put down to that. People know very well the Church’s stance on homosexuality.

Dear Merrick,

I would agree with Rosebud’s response to you on your last sentence. Many people do not know very well the Church’s teachings on homosexuality or contraception or any number of issues. Sadly some do not make any effort to determine truth from falsehood.

Lack of knowledge can be due to their own lack of seeking the Truth from authentic sources, or due to their listening to some who have misinterpreted or deliberately tried to change what the the Church has officially taught. As Rosebud has already said, many Bishops, priests (and I would add deacons, nuns and lay teachers) have confused the issue as well. Some Bishops and Cardinals, deacons, nuns and lay teachers have not spoken clearly nor consistently on the actual teachings of the Church. Rather they have offered their own opinions and confused many.

Only God can judge the heart of any person but we will all be held accountable for ignorance we could have corrected ourselves. Every baptized catholic adult who is serious about his Faith and serious about seeking the Truth needs a copy of the Catholic Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Amazon.com sells the CCC 2nd edition, in print and kindle and it is not very expensive. Bibles can also be purchased at reasonable prices or in e-format which is cheaper. There are also excellent Catholic commentaries on Scripture (Old and New Testaments). I use the Navarre series which includes references to Church documents as well as writings of the Saints.

It is important for all of us to pray for one another and for the Church which Christ sent to the world. By God’s Grace may we be His Light in the darkness, as Mary and all the saints have been on this earth.

 

[marymary1975]

**

I am disappointed but I did not have too much faith in Europe. The anti life side has gained too much ground over there and at this point in time I think Europe stopped being a catholic continent a long time ago.

 

[MariaChristi]

**

I am disappointed but I did not have too much faith in Europe. The anti life side has gained too much ground over there and at this point in time I think Europe stopped being a catholic continent a long time ago.

Dear marymary,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, as someone else mentioned briefly on this thread since Catholics have accepted the lies regarding contraception, and abortion, and have increasingly become more secular in their pursuit of the things of this world to the detriment of their faith in God, we have seen Europe sliding first and now Ireland. Will Poland be next or Spain to have a national vote such as Ireland did?

While many of us still hoped in the faith among many in Ireland, we were disappointed in only around 40% who voted “no” to changing their constitution to legalize same sex unions.

 

[MariaChristi]

It’s a matter of civics not religion

Dear Jimmy,

If our faith does not inform our reason, we will be Godless. Ireland was once strong in her faith else she would not have a Constitution which invoked the Holy Trinity. If you read the blog which I linked in the original post on this thread it might help you understand the situation more. There are two excellent articles included in the blog which can help also.

The blog can be read HERE

 

[MariaChristi]

I agree with your short but very true statement. I read somewhere this morning that Catholic traditionalists believe that the Irish vote was based on poor education of the Faithful, when that is just an excuse to make it seem like the world is not changing, when in reality, those who voted for the new law were following their own values taught to them by the Church and not dogma. Does anyone here really think that 60% of the Irish did not know what the Church rules are when it comes to LGBTQ issues, especially marriage equality? I think that the human heart is at play here and when the synod is held this fall concerning family issues this is bound to come up, especially around the dogma concerning divorced people being able to participate in receiving the Eucharist. I totally understand that I am generally a lone wolf in my thoughts concerning social issues.

Dear kozlosap,

I just responded to Jimmy, whose comment you agree with. I do not agree that the Irish vote is a matter of civics and not religion. If you read the blog it might help to understand the depth of the issue better.

Those among the 60% who voted in favor of legalizing same sex marriage may have had varied reasons but if they knew the Truth of Catholic teaching on marriage they would not have voted “yes” to changing their constitution and legalizing a union forbidden by God’s Word and the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church.

The human heart by itself is unreliable – we ought to know from history and our own experience what men and women are capable of doing. Some can do heroic good and others can be cruel enough to commit horrendous crimes against humanity. Social issues need the Light of God’s Word and the wisdom He has given to His saints in order to keep mankind from destroying itself.

Please read the blog, if you have not read it. See HERE