Anyone who willfully and deliberately sins doesn't know God, just ask Ananias!

[Giver]

Eireann:

This bit don’t add up with this.

Matt 18:21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times**.

I have answered this objection before, but it seams you haven’t read it. If someone offends me and ask for forgiveness of course I have to forgive him or her. I am not God nor did I die for anyone, and I can’t give anyone the Holy Spirit to keep him or her from offending me.

 

[Giver]

Cheeto1,

I wonder if you would care to explain to me what you say to people when you are asked about all the priests who did those sexual acts with other men and or boys? Especially when or if you quote the following Scriptures:

(Hebrews 6:4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

If you tell them that the priest most likely never knew God, then what do you say when your asked how come the other spiritual men around them didn’t discerns that they were not of God?

The Holy Spirit has let me know when people I have associated with were not of God, so why weren’t at least the Bishops walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

(1 Corinthians 5:9-10) “When I wrote in my letter to you not to associate with people living immoral lives, I was not meaning to include all the people in the world who are sexually immoral, any more than I meant to include all usurers and swindlers or idol worshippers. To do that, you would have to withdraw from the world altogether.”

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Giver it looks like you are wrong again because I did quote someone who said John 7:53-8:11 is not part of the bible in the first place and he is a textual scholar. You are listening to some decieving spirit because you keep contradicting scripture.

Many have answered each of your proof texts and yet you choose not to learn the truth of scripture.

Don’t you think if you were speaking to the real Jesus he would know that this text is not part of the orginals? – that is just another reason besides you constantly being wrong, and you continue to misread scripture.

agape

 

[cheeto1]

Giver:

Cheeto1,

I wonder if you would care to explain to me what you say to people when you are asked about all the priests who did those sexual acts with other men and or boys? Especially when or if you quote the following Scriptures:

(Hebrews 6:4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

If you tell them that the priest most likely never knew God, then what do you say when your asked how come the other spiritual men around them didn’t discerns that they were not of God?

The Holy Spirit has let me know when people I have associated with were not of God, so why weren’t at least the Bishops walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

(1 Corinthians 5:9-10) “When I wrote in my letter to you not to associate with people living immoral lives, I was not meaning to include all the people in the world who are sexually immoral, any more than I meant to include all usurers and swindlers or idol worshippers. To do that, you would have to withdraw from the world altogether.”

Your question is a painful one indeed, since it hits a little too
close to home for me, but I will tell you that I echo the words of
Pope John Paul II who said, “they are traitors”. They have betrayed us all.

You ask why the Holy Spirit didn’t reveal to the others what was
going on? I wouldn’t know. He obviously has revealed it now.
Where were you? Maybe He wanted to reveal it to you. See
how important it is to stick together?

Once when Jesus asked the disciples if they wanted to leave
Him due to his disgusting words in John 6:55-56, Peter said,
“where can we go? you have the words of everlasting life”
and that’s the way it is with the church. There is no where
else to go. This church belongs to Jesus and He will set all
things right, but He needs everyone’s help. We are His body now.
Maybe you don’t realise how important you are or how important
each one of us is. We’re all in this together.

You may have had a bad experience, I don’t know. If so, I’m glad
you are safe now. No one can take your church from you. It is
yours, and it’s here for you.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Cheeto1,

I wonder if you would care to explain to me what you say to people when you are asked about all the priests who did those sexual acts with other men and or boys? Especially when or if you quote the following Scriptures:
…
…

You didn’t ask me to answer this but you’ve brought the subject up to me on several occassions.

Here is my answer:

There is no excuse for what these men did anymore than there is an exuse for any other serious sin. Hopefully, the scandal will root out all those that have committed these kinds of sins. The Church and Christianity in general will be the stronger for it.

We already see some very positive signs emerging from this terrible trauma to the body of Christ. The Catholic Church is not the only church that has these types of sinners among her clergy. All of the other denominations have the same problem…it simply hasn’t received the media attention that our church has received. Satan is having a field day with this. He hit the clergy of the true church of Christ very hard, and now he is capitalizing on it. Please note, however, that he will not prevail. God’s grace will overcome the efforts of Satan.

There is currently a great deal of progress being made to address the issue of sexual misconduct. Anyone, that fairly examines what the US Bishops have done to address the issue will notice that they are establishing a model prevention program that other Churches and organizations will be measured by.

I also tell people that we need to pray for our priests and clergy. Satan targets them heavily. Moreover, we need to clean up our own lives and to live morally and walk in the light of Christ. Television, radio, movies, and the print media are giving us all of the wrong messages. Virtually all of the cultural barriers against serious sin have been breeched. The clergy come from rank and file Christians. If rank and file Christians are not moral and holy we will also have some priests that are neither moral nor holy.

P.S. The number of priests involved in this type of behavior is approximately 3%. Nevertheless, the damage they have done is enormous, and there is no excuse.

 

[Giver]

Pax:

You didn’t ask me to answer this but you’ve brought the subject up to me on several occassions.

Here is my answer:

There is no excuse for what these men did anymore than there is an exuse for any other serious sin. Hopefully, the scandal will root out all those that have committed these kinds of sins. The Church and Christianity in general will be the stronger for it.

We already see some very positive signs emerging from this terrible trauma to the body of Christ. The Catholic Church is not the only church that has these types of sinners among her clergy. All of the other denominations have the same problem…it simply hasn’t received the media attention that our church has received. Satan is having a field day with this. He hit the clergy of the true church of Christ very hard, and now he is capitalizing on it. Please note, however, that he will not prevail. God’s grace will overcome the efforts of Satan.

There is currently a great deal of progress being made to address the issue of sexual misconduct. Anyone, that fairly examines what the US Bishops have done to address the issue will notice that they are establishing a model prevention program that other Churches and organizations will be measured by.

I also tell people that we need to pray for our priests and clergy. Satan targets them heavily. Moreover, we need to clean up our own lives and to live morally and walk in the light of Christ. Television, radio, movies, and the print media are giving us all of the wrong messages. Virtually all of the cultural barriers against serious sin have been breeched. The clergy come from rank and file Christians. If rank and file Christians are not moral and holy we will also have some priests that are neither moral nor holy.

P.S. The number of priests involved in this type of behavior is approximately 3%. Nevertheless, the damage they have done is enormous, and there is no excuse.

I didn’t bring up the church scandal because I personally ever had a bad experience with anyone in the church. My point is that the church on the whole isn’t walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There should be in every parish many people walking in the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, discernment, working of miracles, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. Even if the church bishops were walking in the gifts those priest wouldn’t have ever become priest.

There are so many excuses of why the church on the whole isn’t walking in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but for me the reason is very simple. The church isn’t living the Word of God and if someone doesn’t live the Word, he or she doesn’t love God.

I know everyone out there will tell me I’m wrong that the church teaches the Word of God. I have been sharing over and over again where the Word isn’t being taught, but everyone keeps telling me I’m wrong, not saying Jesus or the Holy Spirit explained that I’m wrong but just their church teachings.

 

[thistle]

Giver:

I didn’t bring up the church scandal because I personally ever had a bad experience with anyone in the church. My point is that the church on the whole isn’t walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There should be in every parish many people walking in the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, discernment, working of miracles, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. Even if the church bishops were walking in the gifts those priest wouldn’t have ever become priest.

There are so many excuses of why the church on the whole isn’t walking in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but for me the reason is very simple. The church isn’t living the Word of God and if someone doesn’t live the Word, he or she doesn’t love God.

I know everyone out there will tell me I’m wrong that the church teaches the Word of God. I have been sharing over and over again where the Word isn’t being taught, but everyone keeps telling me I’m wrong, not saying Jesus or the Holy Spirit explained that I’m wrong but just their church teachings.

Yoy are wrong. You are a false prophet. All the posters in the various threads you are in have rebutted your claims successfully but you are too blind to see it. On a charitable note maybe you are simply delusional. I hope its that and that you are not an agent of the deceiver because you certainly do not tell the truth about the word of God.
I notice too you still refuse to answer my point in the other thread.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

I didn’t bring up the church scandal because I personally ever had a bad experience with anyone in the church. My point is that the church on the whole isn’t walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There should be in every parish many people walking in the gifts of healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, discernment, working of miracles, and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. Even if the church bishops were walking in the gifts those priest wouldn’t have ever become priest.

There are so many excuses of why the church on the whole isn’t walking in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but for me the reason is very simple. The church isn’t living the Word of God and if someone doesn’t live the Word, he or she doesn’t love God.

I know everyone out there will tell me I’m wrong that the church teaches the Word of God. I have been sharing over and over again where the Word isn’t being taught, but everyone keeps telling me I’m wrong, not saying Jesus or the Holy Spirit explained that I’m wrong but just their church teachings.

Giver,

You have a gift for pointing out the need for holiness and that is probably your calling. Once again, I commend you for that. If you confine your statements to that context and do not include erroneous statements concerning the Church and its teachings you will find no disagreement with us.

Sinfulness comes from Satan, the fall, and the world. Sinfulness does not come from the Church. Jesus tells us of the “wheat and the tares.” You, apparently, only see the “tares” within the church and you have, therefore, concluded that the church is at fault and that the church is wrong. There is no logical connection between the two. You would benefit greatly by looking at the many holy and spirit filled Catholics that are currently walking the planet. You will meet some of them right here on the Catholic Answers forums.

Please note that you will never receive an argument from me when it comes to the call for holiness and the abolition of sin in our lives. I walk arm in arm with you in this belief. You will, however, face a holy and Spirit filled opposition to anything that is untrue. Your contentions against the clear meaning of scripture, the church, and the Church’s teachings have unfortunately fallen into that category.

I pray that you will focus on your gift for holiness and preach the word in those terms.

Please take no offense to what I am about to say. It is clear from your posts that you do not possess the gift of discerning theological truths. I will give examples that illustrate the point, and again I mean no offense.

–you deny the ministerial priesthood and claim that any Christian can confect the Eucharist.

–you claim that self-defense is not permitted.

–you claim that it is wrong to call a priest “father.”

–you claimed that Peter “only” believed that Jesus was a “special man” until after Pentecost.

–you claimed that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching, and that the Church is still making errors.

I could go on but these are some of the more obvious problems that come to mind. Please carefully consider the possibility that you are wrong in these things. Powerful and overwhelming statements from scripture have been given to you concerning these and other matters. It is essential that you open your mind and let the light of truth enter into your heart and soul.

You obviously seem dedicated to striving for holiness and peace with all men [Heb 12:14]. Imagine the holiness you can attain while armed with the fullness of the truth. Theological discernment and biblical interpretation are not your strengths or gifts. Try combining what you learn from spirit filled Catholics on this forum with your love of God, your desire to be close to God, and your desire for holiness and pleasing God. The spiritual benefits of all of this can only be accomplished through the unity with the one body of Christ as spoken of by Jesus himself in John chapter 17.

I pray that you will reflect on all of this. God is calling you home to His Church.

 

[Giver]

Pax:

Giver,

You have a gift for pointing out the need for holiness and that is probably your calling. Once again, I commend you for that. If you confine your statements to that context and do not include erroneous statements concerning the Church and its teachings you will find no disagreement with us.

Sinfulness comes from Satan, the fall, and the world. Sinfulness does not come from the Church. Jesus tells us of the “wheat and the tares.” You, apparently, only see the “tares” within the church and you have, therefore, concluded that the church is at fault and that the church is wrong. There is no logical connection between the two. You would benefit greatly by looking at the many holy and spirit filled Catholics that are currently walking the planet. You will meet some of them right here on the Catholic Answers forums.

Please note that you will never receive an argument from me when it comes to the call for holiness and the abolition of sin in our lives. I walk arm in arm with you in this belief. You will, however, face a holy and Spirit filled opposition to anything that is untrue. Your contentions against the clear meaning of scripture, the church, and the Church’s teachings have unfortunately fallen into that category.

I pray that you will focus on your gift for holiness and preach the word in those terms.

Please take no offense to what I am about to say. It is clear from your posts that you do not possess the gift of discerning theological truths. I will give examples that illustrate the point, and again I mean no offense.

–you deny the ministerial priesthood and claim that any Christian can confect the Eucharist.

–you claim that self-defense is not permitted.

–you claim that it is wrong to call a priest “father.”

I could go on but these are some of the more obvious problems that come to mind. Please carefully consider the possibility that you are wrong in these things. Powerful and overwhelming statements from scripture have been given to you concerning these and other matters. It is essential that you open your mind and let the light of truth enter into your heart and soul.

You obviously seem dedicated to striving for holiness and peace with all men [Heb 12:14]. Imagine the holiness you can attain while armed with the fullness of the truth. Theological discernment and biblical interpretation are not your strengths or gifts. Try combining what you learn from spirit filled Catholics on this forum with your love of God, your desire to be close to God, and your desire for holiness and pleasing God. The spiritual benefits of all of this can only be accomplished through the unity with the one body of Christ as spoken of by Jesus himself in John chapter 17.

I pray that you will reflect on all of this. God is calling you home to His Church.

–you claimed that Peter “only” believed that Jesus was a “special man” until after Pentecost.

What I say about Peter before Pentecost is: he didn’t truly know Jesus as God. In order for a person to live a sinless life he or she needs to be baptized with Holy Spirit and to know God.​

-you claimed that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching, and that the Church is still making errors.

Don’t believe I ever said that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching. I believe what you are referring to is I talk about: the early church all ready, in John’s lifetime, was in need of correction. Jesus had to send a prophet to the seven churches, to bring them back to the Word.

As for the right to self-defense, calling another man father, and the need for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist, I know the churches teaching is wrong.

 

[Pax]

–you claimed that Peter “only” believed that Jesus was a “special man” until after Pentecost.

What I say about Peter before Pentecost is: he didn’t truly know Jesus as God. In order for a person to live a sinless life he or she needs to be baptized with Holy Spirit and to know God.​

-you claimed that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching, and that the Church is still making errors.

Don’t believe I ever said that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching. I believe what you are referring to is I talk about: the early church all ready, in John’s lifetime, was in need of correction. Jesus had to send a prophet to the seven churches, to bring them back to the Word.

As for the right to self-defense, calling another man father, and the need for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist, I know the churches teaching is wrong.

Since you have ignored the truth which has been amply shown you by way of scripture, I will have to give up trying via these forums to persuade you. All that is left for me to do is pray on your behalf. May God bless you.

 

[cheeto1]

Pax:

Since you have ignored the truth which has been amply shown you by way of scripture, I will have to give up trying via these forums to persuade you. All that is left for me to do is pray on your behalf. May God bless you.

Prayer is all there is ever left for any of us to do since it is God who
really does the rest and deserves all the credit for any good we
can do. May God bless us all, every one.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I agree with your prayers.

Pax, the scanal being exposed in the church is starting to have a puriflying effect on the public schools because the press is demanding to know what schools have convicted crimimals in them.

 

[Eireann]

Giver:

Don’t believe I ever said that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching. I believe what you are referring to is I talk about: the early church all ready, in John’s lifetime, was in need of correction. Jesus had to send a prophet to the seven churches, to bring them back to the Word.

So what is the name of this Church ?

As for the right to self-defense, calling another man father, and the need for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist, I know the churches teaching is wrong.

Matthew 16:19 ** And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.**

Giver the Catholic Church has the power to bind and loosen.

Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So I assume Giver that the gates of hell have prevailed, over and above what Jesus promised ?

Giver the Gates of hell haven’t prevailed, the Holy Spirit continues to guide the Church, although the physcial side of the Church was/is battered and bruised, the Spiritual side is perfect, because the Holy Spirit doesn’t err.

No Giver the Catholic marches on, 2000 years later, through all the hardships and scandals and just like Jesus on Good Friday everything looked very bleak, but on Sunday the great victory over death.
That is how it will be for the Catholic Church, but it will emerge victorious, while the efforts of others to bring it down internally and externally will fail, they strike their heads against the Rock, and as Jesus promised “The Gates of Hell shall not prevail.”

 

[Giver]

cheeto1:

Prayer is all there is ever left for any of us to do since it is God who
really does the rest and deserves all the credit for any good we
can do. May God bless us all, every one.

I would like to amen that; also expand on what you said. Jesus is God and He has a great respect for us, so if His Holy Spirit comes to us to give a word, and because the word doesn’t agree with what has been taught to us about Jesus, we say no to what the Holy Spirit says, than the Holy Spirit respects our decision, and quits brothering us.

We were taught that if a teaching disagrees with the church it has to be wrong. The Jews in Jesus time had the same problem, so when He came here they wouldn’t believe Him.

No matter who tells you anything about God, be it a priest, bishop or anyone, go to Jesus and ask if it is right or wrong.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

And, how do you know you are praying to the right Jesus?

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Giver]

Daniel Marsh:

And, how do you know you are praying to the right Jesus?

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Jesus told me He is God and He also told me that the Bible is His Word. So if Jesus is God and the Bible is His Word, who am I to add anything to God’s Word. Jesus also told me not to try to figure Him out. Just follow Him. If I tried to add to His Word I wouldn’t be following Him. Satan would like for me to try to deviate from God’s Word. The Bible is my anchor; if the Holy Spirit ever told me something that didn’t follow Scripture I would know that it couldn’t be the Holy Spirit.

Personally I will listen to anyone but I trust my relationship with Jesus, and it doesn’t matter what
Someone else says, because they alone are responsible for what they believe. I am going to be judged by how I live the Word of God. Jesus said the Word would be our judge, so my responsibility is to obey the Word of God. I am not telling people they should listen to me. My message is to tell everyone they need to listen to God, not man. Most people don’t really believe the Jesus will and does personally communicate (talk, teach, guide) with them.

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

By the fact that you have contradicted scripture too often in your threads and have been shown clearly that you have contradicted scripture, and that you refuse to recieve correction tells me that what you are hearing is not Jesus, but is most likely your ownself trying to justify that which contradicts the Bible – go back and reread the threads you posted in to see where scripture clearly contradicts you. Also, try reading the book,

God Talk: Cautions for Those Who Hear God’s Voice
By: Ruth A. Tucker

I just heard the author on the radio, mintues after asking you, my above question. And, she has your number.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

“I am not telling people they should listen to me.”

Let’s see, you have been equating your posts as being God’s message. Myself and others have clearly shown where you have contradicted scripture itself — I believe you are hearing voices, just not Gods’ voice.

 

[Giver]

Daniel Marsh:

By the fact that you have contradicted scripture too often in your threads and have been shown clearly that you have contradicted scripture, and that you refuse to recieve correction tells me that what you are hearing is not Jesus, but is most likely your ownself trying to justify that which contradicts the Bible – go back and reread the threads you posted in to see where scripture clearly contradicts you. Also, try reading the book,

God Talk: Cautions for Those Who Hear God’s Voice
By: Ruth A. Tucker

I just heard the author on the radio, mintues after asking you, my above question. And, she has your number.

Show me!

 

[thistle]

Giver:

Show me!

Re-read all your threads and all the posters rebuttals. In every case you have been proven wrong.
By the way what about my question?
Are you afraid to answer it?