Anyone who willfully and deliberately sins doesn't know God, just ask Ananias!

[cheeto1]

Giver:

I would like to amen that; also expand on what you said. Jesus is God and He has a great respect for us, so if His Holy Spirit comes to us to give a word, and because the word doesn’t agree with what has been taught to us about Jesus, we say no to what the Holy Spirit says, than the Holy Spirit respects our decision, and quits brothering us.

We were taught that if a teaching disagrees with the church it has to be wrong. The Jews in Jesus time had the same problem, so when He came here they wouldn’t believe Him.

No matter who tells you anything about God, be it a priest, bishop or anyone, go to Jesus and ask if it is right or wrong.

Have you read 1John 4:1? It is about testing all spirits. Here is
a little story of a man who was going to a church denomination
called spiritism and he wanted to do this test.
At the next meeting they were allowed to ask three questions each, an unusual event. Victor’s first one was, “Is Jesus Christ the Son of God?” The answer was, “Why, of course, my son, just believe it as the Bible tells you.” Next he asked, “Is Jesus Christ the Savior of the world?” He got the same answer!

With only one question left, Victor pressed on, “Did Jesus atone for the sins of the world?” Incredibly, this question threw the “spirits” of spiritism into such confusion that the medium was catapulted off his chair onto the floor in a spasm, and had to be revived. Victor left the meeting, never to return, for they had failed the test.

I wonder what would happen if you asked your spirit
these questions? If it were me, I would go to the
authorities who have the experience. I am sure that
the church knows how to test the spirits properly.

I agree with Pax that you are looking at the tares only.
The wheat will be harvested in due time by the master.

 

[Sherlock]

Giver:

I am not telling people they should listen to me. My message is to tell everyone they need to listen to God, not man. .”

But unless they listen to you, then they aren’t going to hear you telling them that they should not listen to a man but should listen to God. So, that leaves you…where? Telling people they should listen to you, that’s where, which is in contradiction to the first sentence.

 

[Giver]

cheeto1:

Have you read 1John 4:1? It is about testing all spirits. Here is
a little story of a man who was going to a church denomination
called spiritism and he wanted to do this test.
At the next meeting they were allowed to ask three questions each, an unusual event. Victor’s first one was, “Is Jesus Christ the Son of God?” The answer was, “Why, of course, my son, just believe it as the Bible tells you.” Next he asked, “Is Jesus Christ the Savior of the world?” He got the same answer!

With only one question left, Victor pressed on, “Did Jesus atone for the sins of the world?” Incredibly, this question threw the “spirits” of spiritism into such confusion that the medium was catapulted off his chair onto the floor in a spasm, and had to be revived. Victor left the meeting, never to return, for they had failed the test.

I wonder what would happen if you asked your spirit
these questions? If it were me, I would go to the
authorities who have the experience. I am sure that
the church knows how to test the spirits properly.

I agree with Pax that you are looking at the tares only.
The wheat will be harvested in due time by the master.

(Romans 8: 9 - 13) “Your interest, however are not in the unspiritual, but in the spiritual, since the Spirit of God has made His home in you. In fact, unless you possessed the Spirit of Christ you would not belong to Him. Though your body may be dead it is because of sin, but if Christ is in you then your spirit is life itself because you have been justified; and if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, then He who raised Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit living in you.”

So then, brothers, there is no necessity for us to obey our unspiritual selves or to live unspiritual lives. If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die; but if by the Spirit you put an end to the misdeeds of the body you will live.”

 

[Giver]

Pax:

Giver,

You have a gift for pointing out the need for holiness and that is probably your calling. Once again, I commend you for that. If you confine your statements to that context and do not include erroneous statements concerning the Church and its teachings you will find no disagreement with us.

Sinfulness comes from Satan, the fall, and the world. Sinfulness does not come from the Church. Jesus tells us of the “wheat and the tares.” You, apparently, only see the “tares” within the church and you have, therefore, concluded that the church is at fault and that the church is wrong. There is no logical connection between the two. You would benefit greatly by looking at the many holy and spirit filled Catholics that are currently walking the planet. You will meet some of them right here on the Catholic Answers forums.

Please note that you will never receive an argument from me when it comes to the call for holiness and the abolition of sin in our lives. I walk arm in arm with you in this belief. You will, however, face a holy and Spirit filled opposition to anything that is untrue. Your contentions against the clear meaning of scripture, the church, and the Church’s teachings have unfortunately fallen into that category.

I pray that you will focus on your gift for holiness and preach the word in those terms.

Please take no offense to what I am about to say. It is clear from your posts that you do not possess the gift of discerning theological truths. I will give examples that illustrate the point, and again I mean no offense.

–you deny the ministerial priesthood and claim that any Christian can confect the Eucharist.

–you claim that self-defense is not permitted.

–you claim that it is wrong to call a priest “father.”

–you claimed that Peter “only” believed that Jesus was a “special man” until after Pentecost.

–you claimed that Peter and the Apostles made errors in teaching, and that the Church is still making errors.

I could go on but these are some of the more obvious problems that come to mind. Please carefully consider the possibility that you are wrong in these things. Powerful and overwhelming statements from scripture have been given to you concerning these and other matters. It is essential that you open your mind and let the light of truth enter into your heart and soul.

You obviously seem dedicated to striving for holiness and peace with all men [Heb 12:14]. Imagine the holiness you can attain while armed with the fullness of the truth. Theological discernment and biblical interpretation are not your strengths or gifts. Try combining what you learn from spirit filled Catholics on this forum with your love of God, your desire to be close to God, and your desire for holiness and pleasing God. The spiritual benefits of all of this can only be accomplished through the unity with the one body of Christ as spoken of by Jesus himself in John chapter 17.

I pray that you will reflect on all of this. God is calling you home to His Church.

Pax, The key point of my post is, Even if the church bishops were walking in the gifts those priest wouldn’t have even become priest. Doesn’t it bother you that so few people are walking in the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Don’t you ever wonder why?

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

Maybe there are fewer people than you believe that the Lord calls to himself.

Jesus told us to let his light shine, so if you say many people do have the gifts of the Holy Spirit, their not letting them shine.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

(Romans 8: 9 - 13) “Your interest, however are not in the unspiritual, but in the spiritual, since the Spirit of God has made His home in you. In fact, unless you possessed the Spirit of Christ you would not belong to Him. Though your body may be dead it is because of sin, but if Christ is in you then your spirit is life itself because you have been justified; and if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, then He who raised Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit living in you.”

So then, brothers, there is no necessity for us to obey our unspiritual selves or to live unspiritual lives. If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die; but if by the Spirit you put an end to the misdeeds of the body you will live.”

Are you saying that you believe that you will not physcally die if you do not sin? Please.

For the show me, go to the library and check out the book by interlibrary loan.

Isaiah 63:8-14 (New King James Version)

8 For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
** 10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;**
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:

  “ Where is He who brought them up out of the sea 
  With the shepherd of His flock? 
 ** Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them, 
   12 Who led them by the right hand of Moses, **
  With His glorious arm, 
  Dividing the water before them 
  To make for Himself an everlasting name, 
   13 Who led them through the deep, 
  As a horse in the wilderness, 
  That they might not stumble?” 
   14 As a beast goes down into the valley,

** And the Spirit of the LORD causes him to rest,
So You lead Your people,
To make Yourself a glorious name.
**

You say by the spirit that you are listening to, that those in the OT did not have the Holy Spirit, Isaiah here says you are wrong!!!
We know that Isaiah was getting his prophecy from God, therefore you are NOT getting your messages from God. Either you are listening to a seducing spirit or you are simply getting it from your own mind.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Isaiah 40:11 (New King James Version)
He will feed His flock like a shepherd;
He will gather the lambs with His arm,
And carry them in His bosom,
And gently lead those who are with young.

Ezekiel 34
11 ‘For thus says the Lord GOD: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord GOD. 16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”
17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”
20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.
25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord GOD.’”
31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord GOD.

Above we see that Israel is God’s Flock in the OT and that no matter how many times they fell away from grace God sought them out and gave them many times of repentance.

In Romans 11:17-24 we are told that the gentiles are grafted into Isreal. In Acts 20:28 and I Peter 5:1-4 we are told that that flock is the Church. In Isaiah 42:6; 49:6; 56:8 Isreal is to be a light to the nations, gentiles. In Romans 1:16; 2:9-10; 10:12; Col 3:11; and Gal 3:28, we are told that the chuch consists of Jews and Gentiles, the nations. Now to look at your voice proof texts:

In John 10 Jesus is speaking in figurative language, not literal as you are taking your proof texts. In verse 7 Jesus is liken to the gate of the church, sheepfold. In verse 11 Jesus is liken to the good sheppard. In verse 16, the other sheep are the nations, gentiles that are grafted into Isreal or grafted into the Church, they are to become ONE FLOCK, one church, not two churches. In John 21:15-17 Peter is told to feed God’s sheep, the church. Peter in I Peter 5 tells elders to feed the sheep. The one Flock is the one Church.

The question is how does people hear Jesus voice? Answer through the Church and through the Scriptures and through the Holy Spirit fellowshipping with our spirit. The John 10 proof texts are figurative in nature. They do not mean that all christians are to literally hear God speak out loud as you contend.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

John 10:16 (New King James Version)
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be **one flock and one shepherd. **

 

[Giver]

Daniel Marsh:

Are you saying that you believe that you will not physcally die if you do not sin? Please.

For the show me, go to the library and check out the book by interlibrary loan.

Isaiah 63:8-14 (New King James Version)

8 For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
** 10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;**
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:

  “ Where is He who brought them up out of the sea 
  With the shepherd of His flock? 
 ** Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them, 
   12 Who led them by the right hand of Moses, **
  With His glorious arm, 
  Dividing the water before them 
  To make for Himself an everlasting name, 
   13 Who led them through the deep, 
  As a horse in the wilderness, 
  That they might not stumble?” 
   14 As a beast goes down into the valley,

** And the Spirit of the LORD causes him to rest,
So You lead Your people,
To make Yourself a glorious name.
**

You say by the spirit that you are listening to, that those in the OT did not have the Holy Spirit, Isaiah here says you are wrong!!!
We know that Isaiah was getting his prophecy from God, therefore you are NOT getting your messages from God. Either you are listening to a seducing spirit or you are simply getting it from your own mind.

(John 16:4-10)”I did not tell you this from the outset, because I was with you; but now I am going to the one who sent me. Not one of you has asked, ‘Where are you going?’ Yet you are sad at heart because I have told you this. Still, I must tell you the truth: it is for your own good that I am going because unless I go, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will show the world how wrong it was, about sin, and about who was in the right, and about judgement; about sin: proved by their refusal to believe in me; proved by my going to the Father and your seeing me no more; About judgement”

(1 Corinthians 3:16 –17) “Didn’t you realize that you were God’s temple and that the Spirit of God was living among you? If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy him, because the temple of God is sacred; and you are that temple.”

Now did God ever tell anyone in the Old Testament they were the temple of God? The Spirit of Jesus guided Moses and all the prophets, but they were never baptized in the Holy Spirit. Jesus never sent man His Spirit to possess him until after He came and died for us.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I do not need to prove that every figure of speech was applied to both Isreal and the church. But, here is what we do know for sure:

OLD TESTAMENT TITLES AND ATTRIBUTES OF ISRAEL WHICH ARE, IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, REFERRED TO THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

THE BELOVED OF GOD
A. Israel Is Beloved Of God
Exo. 15:13 / Deu.33:3 / Ezr.3:11
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved Of God
Lev. 26:28. 30 / Jer. 12:8 / Jer. 16:5 / Hos. 9:l5 / Amo.9:7 / Mat. 3:7 / Philip. 3:2 /
1 Th. 2:14-16 / Tit. 1:10
C. The Christians Are Beloved Of God
Rom. 1:7,9,25 / Eph. 5:1 / Col. 3:12 / Jo. 3:1 / 2 The. 2:13 / Rev. 1:4-6
THE CHILDREN OF GOD
A. lsraelites Are The Children Of God
Exo. 4:22 / Den. 14:1 / Isa. 1:2,4 / Isa. 63:8 / Jer. 31:9 / Hos. 11:1
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Children Of God
Deu. 32:5 / John 8:39, 42, 44
C. The Christians Are The Children Of God
John. 1:12, 11:52 / Rom. 8:14,16 / 2 Cor. 6:18 / Gal. 3:26 / Gal. 4:5, 6, 7 /
Philip. 2:15 / 1 Jo. 3:1

THE FIELD OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Field Of God
Jer. 12:10
B. The Christians Are The Field Of God
I Cor. 3:9

THE FLOCK OF GOD AND OF THE MESSIAH
A. Israel Is The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah
Psa.78:52 / Psa.80:1 / Isa.40:ll / Jer.23:1, 2 ,3 / Jer.31:I0 / Eze. 34:12, 15, 16 /
Mic. 5:4 / Zec. 10:3
B. The Christians Are The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah
John 10:14, 16 / Heb. 13:20 / 1 Pe. 2:25 / 1 Pe. 5:2, 3

THE HOUSE OF GOD
A. Israel Is The House Of God
Num. 12:7
B. The Christians Are The House Of God
I Tim. 3:15 / Heb. 3:2, 5, 6 / Heb. 10:21 / 1 Pe. 4:17

THE CHOSEN PEOPLE
A. The Israelites Are The Chosen People
Deu. 7:7 / Deu. 10:15 / Deu. 14:2 /Isa. 43:20, 21
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Chosen People
Deu. 31:17 / 2 Ki. 17:20 / 2 Chr. 25:7 / Psa. 78:59 / Jer. 6:30 / Jer. 7:29 / Jer. 14:10
C. The Christians Are The Chosen People
Col. 3:12 / 1 Pe. 2:9

THE CIRCUMCISED
A. The Israelites Are The Circumcised
Gen. 17:10, 13 / Jdg. 15:18
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Circumcised
Jer. 9:25. 26 / Rom. 2:25,28 / Philip. 3:2
C. The Christians Are The Circumcised
Rom. 2:29 / Philip. 3:3 / Col. 2:11

ISRAEL
A. Israel Is Israel
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites
Num. 15:30, 31 / Deu. 18:19 / Acts 3:23 / Rom,. 9:6
C. The Christians Are Israel
John 11:50, 51, 52 / 1 Cor. 10:1 / Gal. 5:6; 6:15, 16 / Eph. 2:12,19

JERUSALEM
A. Jerusalem IsThe City And Mother of Israelites
Psa. 149:2 / Isa. 12:6 / Isa. 49:18, 20, 22 / Isa. 51:18 / Lam. 4:2
B. Jerusalem Is The City And Mother Of Christians
Gal. 4:26 / Heb. 12:22

THE JEWS
A. Israelites Are Jews
Ezr. 5:1 / Jer. 34:8, 9 / Zec. 8:22, 23
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews
Rom. 2:28 / Rev. 2:9 / Rev 3:9
C. Christians Are True Jews
Rom. 2:29

THE NEW COVENANT
A. The New Covenant Is With Israel
Jer. 31:31, 33
B. The New Covenant Is With The Christians
Luke 22:20 / 1 Cor. 11:25 / 2 Cor. 3:6 / Heb. 8:6, 8, 10

AN OLIVE TREE
A. Israel Is An Olive Tree
Jer. 11:16 / Hos. 14:6
B. The Christians Are An Olive Tree
Rom. 11:24

THE KINGDOM OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Kingdom Of God
Exo. 19:6 1 Chr. 17:14/ 1 Chr. 28:5
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not The Kingdom O fGod
Mat 8:11, 12 / Mat 21:43
C. The Christians Are The kingdoni Of God
Rom. 14:17 / 1 Cor. 4:20 / Col. 1:13 / Col. 4:11 / Rev. 1:6

THE PEOPLE OF GOD
A. The Israelites Are The People Of God
Exo. 6:7 / Deu. 27:9 / 2 Sam. 7:23 / Jer. 11:4
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The People Of God
Hos. 1:9 / Jer.5:10
C. The Christians Are The People Of God
Rom. 9:25 / 2 Cor. 6:16 / Eph. 4:12 / Eph. 5:3 / 2Th. 1:10 / Tit. 2:14

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

THE PRIESTS OF GOD
A. The Israelites Are The Priests Of God
Exo. 19:6
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Priests Of God
1 Sam. 2:28,30 / Lam. 4:13, 16 / Eze. 44:10, 13 / Hos 4.6 / Mal.2:2,4, 8 ,9
C. The Christians Are The Priests Of God
1 Pe. 2:5,9 / Rev. 1:6 / Rev. 5:10

THE VINEYARD OF GOD
A. The Israelites Is The Vineyard Of God
Isa. 5:3,4, 5, 7 /Jer. 12:10
B. The Christians Are The Vineyard Of God
Luke 20:16

THE WIFE (OR BRIDE) OF GOD
A. Israel Is The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
Isa. 54:5, 6 / Jer. 2:2 / Eze. 16:32 / Hos. 1:2
B. Disobedient Israel Is Not The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
Jer. 3:8 / Hos. 2:2
C. The Christians Are The Wife (Or Bride) Of God
2 Cor. 1l:2 / Eph.5:31, 32

THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM
A. The Israelites Are The Children Of Abraham
2 Chr. 20:7 / Psa. 105:6 / Isa. 41:8
B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Children Of Abraham
John 8:39 / Rom,. 9:6, 7 / Gal. 4:25, 30
C. The Christians Are The Children Of Abraham
Rom. 4:11, 16 / Gal. 3:7, 29 / Gal. 4:23, 28, 31

SECTION 2

OLD TESTAMENT VERSES REFERRING TO ISRAEL WHICH ARE QUOTED
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS REFERRING TO THE CHRISTIANS

QUOTE # 1: Lev. 26:11 / Eze. 37:27 / 2 Cor. 6:16
QUOTE # 2: Deu. 30:12-14 / Rom. 10:6-8
QUOTE # 3: Deu. 31:6 / Heb. 13:5
QUOTE # 4: Deu. 32:36 / Psa. 135:14 / Heb. 10:30
QUOTE # 5: Psa. 22:22 / Heb. 2:12
QUOTE # 6: Psa. 44:22 / Rom. 8:36
QUOTE # 7: Psa. 95:7-11 / Heb. 3:7-11
QUOTE # 8: Psa. 130:8 / Tit. 2:14
QUOTE # 9: Isa. 28:16 / Rom. 10:11 / Eph. 2:20 / 1 Pe. 2:6
QUOTE # 10: Isa. 49:8 / 2 Cor. 6:2
QUOTE # 11: Isa. 52:7 / Rom. 10:15
QUOTE # 12: Isa. 54:1 / Gal. 4:27
QUOTE # 13: Jer. 31:31-34 / Heb. 8:8-12
QUOTE # 14: Hos. 1:10; 2:23 / Rom. 9:25-26 / 1 Pe. 2:10
QUOTE # 15: Hos. 13:14 / 1 Cor. 15:55
QUOTE # 16: Joel 2:32 / Rom. 10:13
SECTION 3

OLD TESTAMENT ETHICAL COMMANDS TO ISRAEL WHICH ARE QUOTED
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS APPLYING TO THE CHURCH

QUOTE #1: Exd.16:18 / 2Cor.8:15
QUOTE #2: Lev. 11:45; 19:2 / 1 Pe. 1:16
QUOTE #3: Deu. 5:16 / Eph. 6:2-3
QUOTE #4: Deu. 17:7; 19:19; 22:24; 24:7 / 1 Cor. 5:13
QUOTE #5: Deu. 19:15 / 2 Cor. 13:1 / 1 Tim. 5:19
QUOTE #6: Isa. 35:3 / Heb. 12:12
QUOTE #7: Isa. 48:20; 52:11 / 2 Cor. 6:17
incolor.inebraska.com/stuart/israel.htm

Either I take Isaiah’s word for the fact that OT people had the Holy Spirit or I take your word ( which is really only a tradition of dispensationialism ) that the OT people did not have the Holy Spirit. I am ignoring you and ignoring dispensationialism and going with Isaiah.

 

[josephdavid]

God’s word is not to be picked apart. It is not to take one side versus the other.

Scripture is to be wholy consumed and the entier Scripture is what we are to live by.

Faith with out works and works with out faith is dead and futile.

If you just use faith alone with in the scripture but ignore the REPEATED scriptures pointing out one must work out their salvation then they are blatently ignoring God. If you do good works with out having faith in Christ then you are ignoring God.

When will we all get this? If I am wrong please tell me. But I have read the Bible serveral times through and yet can not find where it nullifies the other in the case of faith and works. They go hand in hand.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi josephdavid, Eph 2:10

What exactly are you responding to here in this thread?

As you know true faith, includes good works. No one is saying that we are not to help the poor, nor Am I saying we are not to walk in the Spirit.

Giver, throuhtout this thread and others has made many statements that he claims Jesus showed him which are contray to the scriptures themselves. May, I suggest josephdavid that you go back and read this thread from the beginning.

agape
Daniel

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Sherlock:

But unless they listen to you, then they aren’t going to hear you telling them that they should not listen to a man but should listen to God. So, that leaves you…where? Telling people they should listen to you, that’s where, which is in contradiction to the first sentence.

Amen

 

[Giver]

Daniel Marsh, reply to Post #245

(1 Peter 2:9-10) “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people at all and now you are the People of God; once you were outside the mercy and now you have been given mercy.” The Jews are no longer the people of God.

You should read (Matthew 11:11) “I tell you solemnly, of all the children born of women, a greater than john the Baptist has never been seen; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is”

Christians are those in the kingdom of heaven. No one made it to the kingdom of heaven until after Jesus. The least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than any of the prophets before Jesus.

 

[Church_Militant]

Giver:

Snip…
Now did God ever tell anyone in the Old Testament they were the temple of God? The Spirit of Jesus guided Moses and all the prophets, but they were never baptized in the Holy Spirit. Jesus never sent man His Spirit to possess him until after He came and died for us.

Oh…I think you’re wrong there Robert!

1st Samuel 10 : 1: Then Samuel took a vial of oil and poured it on his head, and kissed him and said, “Has not the LORD anointed you to be prince over his people Israel? And you shall reign over the people of the LORD and you will save them from the hand of their enemies round about. And this shall be the sign to you that the LORD has anointed you to be prince over his heritage.
2: When you depart from me today you will meet two men by Rachel’s tomb in the territory of Benjamin at Zelzah, and they will say to you, `The asses which you went to seek are found, and now your father has ceased to care about the asses and is anxious about you, saying, “What shall I do about my son?”’
3: Then you shall go on from there further and come to the oak of Tabor; three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there, one carrying three kids, another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a skin of wine.
4: And they will greet you and give you two loaves of bread, which you shall accept from their hand.
5: After that you shall come to Gib’e-ath-elo’him, where there is a garrison of the Philistines; and there, as you come to the city, you will meet a band of prophets coming down from the high place with harp, tambourine, flute, and lyre before them, prophesying.
6: Then the spirit of the LORD will come mightily upon you, and you shall prophesy with them and be turned into another man.
7: Now when these signs meet you, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.
8: And you shall go down before me to Gilgal; and behold, I am coming to you to offer burnt offerings and to sacrifice peace offerings. Seven days you shall wait, until I come to you and show you what you shall do.”
9: When he turned his back to leave Samuel, God gave him another heart; and all these signs came to pass that day.
10: When they came to Gib’e-ah, behold, a band of prophets met him; and the spirit of God came mightily upon him, and he prophesied among them.
11: And when all who knew him before saw how he prophesied with the prophets, the people said to one another, “What has come over the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”
12: And a man of the place answered, “And who is their father?” Therefore it became a proverb, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

Reads an awful lot life baptism and possession of the Holy Spirit to me.

 

[TobyLue]

Originally Posted by Giver I am not telling people they should listen to me. My message is to tell everyone they need to listen to God, not man. .”

Giver, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WITH SOME OF ITS MEMEBERS HERE HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN, we are listening to God and will continue to listen to God and NOT MAN as in YOU, the man who signs himself as “Giver”.
and

No matter who tells you anything about God, be it a priest, bishop or** anyone**, go to Jesus and ask if it is right or wrong.

the anyone includes YOU because everything you have been telling us is dead wrong. Why? Look at what scripture has to say. I quoted this to you before but you ignored it

Luke 10:16" Anyone who listens to you listens to me; anyone who rejects you rejects me, and those who reject me reject the one who sent me."

you dare say that the Church is wrong as you quoted below?

As for the right to self-defense, calling another man father, and the need for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist, I know the churches teaching is wrong.

If you are rejecting this clear teaching from Jesus, you are rejecting the Father who sent Him. You want to lead your life like this? Simply because you hear things you imagine its Jesus? You imagine its Jesus because you were granted the gift of tongues. You are placing all your beliefs on this one incident? Remember that Satan can pose as an angel of light and work miracles too. Rember that Jesus said " If he will not listen to the Church, let him be as the heathen". You are telling Jesus’ Church that it is wrong and refusing to obey **His **Church and rejecting His Church. Instead you are listening to some voices that claim it is Jesus and instead of going to Jesus’ Church for discernment you left His Church. The Church that He founded and now you believe that Jesus is telling you that His church is wrong? Dont you see that something is drastically wrong with this picturel!!!. People have great concern for you and have repeatedly told you time and time again that YOU my friend are wrong because YOU are going against everything the Church (The church that Jesus was talking about and said to listen to it) teaches. When posters here have corrected you, you simply brush them off and say that you will not listen to man you will listen only to Jesus. Well, Jesus, through His word is telling you who you are to listen to. You are not listening to the Church. You are rejecting His Church and thus you are rejecting Jesus and rejecting the Father. You are listening to evil voices. Please seek help immediately!!

 

[Church_Militant]

Another such case!

1st Samuel 19:20: Then Saul sent messengers to take David; and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
21: When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied.
22: Then he himself went to Ramah, and came to the great well that is in Secu; and he asked, “Where are Samuel and David?” And one said, “Behold, they are at Nai’oth in Ramah.”
23: And he went from there to Nai’oth in Ramah; and the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he prophesied, until he came to Nai’oth in Ramah.
24: And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel, and lay naked all that day and all that night. Hence it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

I’d say that you are dead wrong in what you are trying to assert. That may be what you believe, and you are welcome to do so, but it is not based on what the Bible says. :nope:

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Giver, are you saying that God was not the King of Heaven in the OT?

 

[Giver]

TobyLue:

Giver, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WITH SOME OF ITS MEMEBERS HERE HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU TIME AND TIME AGAIN, we are listening to God and will continue to listen to God and NOT MAN as in YOU, the man who signs himself as “Giver”.
and the anyone includes YOU because everything you have been telling us is dead wrong. Why? Look at what scripture has to say. I quoted this to you before but you ignored it you dare say that the Church is wrong as you quoted below? If you are rejecting this clear teaching from Jesus, you are rejecting the Father who sent Him. You want to lead your life like this? Simply because you hear things you imagine its Jesus? You imagine its Jesus because you were granted the gift of tongues. You are placing all your beliefs on this one incident? Remember that Satan can pose as an angel of light and work miracles too. Rember that Jesus said " If he will not listen to the Church, let him be as the heathen". You are telling Jesus’ Church that it is wrong and refusing to obey **His **Church and rejecting His Church. Instead you are listening to some voices that claim it is Jesus and instead of going to Jesus’ Church for discernment you left His Church. The Church that He founded and now you believe that Jesus is telling you that His church is wrong? Dont you see that something is drastically wrong with this picturel!!!. People have great concern for you and have repeatedly told you time and time again that YOU my friend are wrong because YOU are going against everything the Church (The church that Jesus was talking about and said to listen to it) teaches. When posters here have corrected you, you simply brush them off and say that you will not listen to man you will listen only to Jesus. Well, Jesus, through His word is telling you who you are to listen to. You are not listening to the Church. You are rejecting His Church and thus you are rejecting Jesus and rejecting the Father. You are listening to evil voices. Please seek help immediately!!

You assume that listening to the teachings of the church that you are hearing God’s voice. I tell you NO! That is not all there is to hearing His voice.

You’re right I’m included with who ever tells you anything about God.

You are to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong. In fact everything I’m writing is to get people to start to ask Jesus personally what is right or wrong.

Who ever told people that Jesus doesn’t personally talk to us had no idea what they were talking about or they lied.

 

[Giver]

Daniel Marsh:

Giver, are you saying that God was not the King of Heaven in the OT?

What kind of question is that?

Jesus told us that no one made it to the kingdom of heaven until after he came and died for us.

(Matthew 11:11) “I tell you solemnly, of all the children born of women, a greater than john the Baptist has never been seen; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is”