Anything about you that goes against "traditional" gender roles?

[Jimbay]

I guess this is because society still tends to assume traditionally masculine traits are superior to feminine ones – even many “Feminists” seem to often see “girly girls” as essentially the equivalent of Mollie, mare in Animal Farm who cares more about showing off the ribbons in her mane than about the Animal Revolution

There might be that assumption. I don’t know but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the more insecure and entrenched feminists are the ones who most strongly hold that assumption. A well ordered society values both masculine and feminine traits - in their proper spheres, of course.

 

[Lea101]

What is baby fever?

Wanting a baby

 

[Lea101]

There might be that assumption. I don’t know but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the more insecure and entrenched feminists are the ones who most strongly hold that assumption. A well ordered society values both masculine and feminine traits - in their proper spheres, of course.

Masculinity was valued before feminism. Then feminists started to attain it to be seen as ‘equal’ rather than fighting for people to see femininity as important.

Of course there were women that had these masculine qualities and wanted to be seen as important too

Society values masculinity because it kind of matters more…I mean the typical masculine gender stereotype of working (job), physically strong, assertive etc gets you money while the typical feminine gender stereotype of cooking, cleaning, being quiet and gentle does seem useless in a way. If you imagine a society where femininity is valued over masculinity, the economy would be pretty bad lol. So it’s natural for society to favour masculinity and for women to want to be like that, as opposed to favouring femininity instead.

And it’s also hard to value both equally imo because gender roles are almost always useless

 

[Sarcelle]

There might be that assumption. I don’t know but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the more insecure and entrenched feminists are the ones who most strongly hold that assumption. A well ordered society values both masculine and feminine traits - in their proper spheres, of course.

So China and India are not well ordered societies since there is seems to be an effort to wipe out the female half of the population.

 

[Jimbay]

So China and India are not well ordered societies since there is seems to be an effort to wipe out the female half of the population.

Yup…China certainly fits the bill and I’ll take your word for it regarding India. One is a communist led nation that uses men and women as it deems necessary and the other is a mishmash of cultures vying for power. Both are nations very different from ours(if you’re American) and they’ll have to iron out their own problems.

 

[Jimbay]

I should add that China isn’t trying to “wipe out” half the population but limiting it as they are could have serious repercussions.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

It seems many conservative Evangelicals will grudgingly allow for a woman to work for pay if she “has to” to avoid complete destitution, and certainly as an alternative to “being beholden to the State”. But even then, they make a point of emphasizing that a woman’s PRIMARY role is wife and mother, and they should NEVER forget that!

But I’ve almost never seen such people tell men that their primary roles is husband and father. Indeed, many will idolize the man who works 2 or even 3 jobs so the wife can stay home, even if that means he hardly ever has any meaningful interaction with the children beyond being a distant disciplinarian, that the mother evokes with the “Wait Until Your Father Gets Home” threat.

Anyways, speaking of men – it’s interesting how this topic has essentially become one for women to discuss how they’re not “girly girls”. I’d hoped more men would participate, but it seems there is more stigma to a man having “effeminate” features than a woman having “masculine” traits.

I guess this is because society still tends to assume traditionally masculine traits are superior to feminine ones – even many “Feminists” seem to often see “girly girls” as essentially the equivalent of Mollie, mare in Animal Farm who cares more about showing off the ribbons in her mane than about the Animal Revolution.

 

[Jimbay]

Society values masculinity because it kind of matters more…I mean the typical masculine gender stereotype of working (job), physically strong, assertive etc gets you money while the typical feminine gender stereotype of cooking, cleaning, being quiet and gentle does seem useless in a way. If you imagine a society where femininity is valued over masculinity, the economy would be pretty bad lol. So it’s natural for society to favour masculinity and for women to want to be like that, as opposed to favouring femininity instead.

Society should value masculinity but it should be valued in relation to how it is developed in the man - its proper place.

I’ll have to disagree with you on your last sentence. Women wanting to be masculine rather than cultivating feminine qualities is not natural. It is a disorder of the natural and I believe Catholic teaching would back me on this. There’s no cookie cutter way for women to do this (or for men to develop their masculinity) but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

You mentioned being gentle is somewhat useless. I can use my own mother as a counter-example here. She is a gentle person with a strong character. In any situation she could add just the right touch without compromising her values or integrity. She is loved by the men(and my sister too) in the family and admired by those outside of it.

 

[Lea101]

Society should value masculinity but it should be valued in relation to how it is developed in the man - its proper place.

I’ll have to disagree with you on your last sentence. Women wanting to be masculine rather than cultivating feminine qualities is not natural. It is a disorder of the natural and I believe Catholic teaching would back me on this. There’s no cookie cutter way for women to do this (or for men to develop their masculinity) but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

You mentioned being gentle is somewhat useless. I can use my own mother as a counter-example here. She is a gentle person with a strong character. In any situation she could add just the right touch without compromising her values or integrity. She is loved by the men(and my sister too) in the family and admired by those outside of it.

It’s kind of human nature to want to have a quality that is useful. Men used to be the breadwinner for the family. Money, although you can disagree, is important. So there’ll be women that want to have jobs. Men used to be a doctor and save lives. That’s important in society, so there were women who wanted to be doctors. Being physically strong helps you to do shift things, move things etc. So women wanted to be just as strong.

Like for example, if cooking is an important skill to have in this society, men would want to learn to cook, or at least people would encourage men to

In a way, while I’m not saying being gentle is a useless quality, it doesn’t really have instant gratification, which is why society never really valued femininity. Being gentle make people feel good but it doesn’t help/immediately make a difference. The women could make a difference in the home while the guy makes a difference in the home and society. That’s why women till now would rather be strong, assertive, make lots of money etc. Because that actually gets them somewhere.

The problem could be also how we come up with masculine and feminine qualities. There are many, many, many people that go against these stereotypes. I know lots and lots of gentle men, and lots and lots of well, not gentle women. It isn’t disordered because these ideas of men having to be ‘’ and women having to be '’ were decided by other people. Tomboys aren’t disordered

The church teaches roles rather than “you need to be really soft and quiet while you need to be the opposite”

 

[GradStudentsHel]

I am conducting a research survey about perceptions of men with effeminate speech. Please follow the link below if you would like to participate in my survey.

surveymonkey.com/r/strtalk6

Please keep in mind that this is just a pilot study. That means that I am just attaining preliminary information to see if it is worth doing a full study with more detail (and a better design). That being said, I know the design is not perfect, but I would appreciate any feedback you have regarding my study do that I can perfect it in the final study.