AOC: A Society With Billionaires Cannot Be Moral

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True. If everyone is starving, everyone is rich. Thank you, comrade, for that clarification.
We no longer have starvation at all in the developed world
Even in the developing world it only becomes a risk during severe drought or complete breakdown in governance. For the most part it is even prevented there by outside aid.

Now the discussion is your feelings about food security, not your BMI.
 
Easier to add 9 zeros to your currencies. (I think Venezuela adds 1 every day.) Then billionaires will be among those starving. C’mon Fed, you can do it.
 
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OneSheep:
Look, AOC is going overboard and being unrealistic about the tax proposals, but what we can see is that the concentration of wealth in this world, at the expense of those suffering poverty, is unjust
It’s not at all clear that the concentration of wealth is at the expense of those in poverty. When a company like Apple succeeds in selling a lot of I-phones and becomes very profitable, does that create more poverty, or does it create more jobs?
Apple is probably a bad example to use here. For many years it used conflict minerals from the DRC to produce its phones and other products, which kept millions of Congolese living in terror with rape and other forms of violence perpetrated against them to keep them subservient, oppressed, and yes, poor.
 
First, the vast majority of our nation’s federal taxes have gone one place, the military and associated offensive efforts. This is not justice.
That is not even remotely true. Social Security and unemployment alone more than double all military spending.
 
You cannot find it in Venezuela, but I would love to move to Cuba.
I too worked a soup kitchen in a city. I was always grateful for local businesses that helped out with contributions.

As for Cuba. I’ve toured around quite bit of it. It’s a BLEEPhole. Lovely beaches, natural jungles and such. 17th century buildings rotting beyond repair. Everything broken, cars, consumer products, light bulbs. Best to wait until the other Castro brother sheds his mortal coil and beautiful capitalism can save the lovely people from the tyranny they’ve endured for 60 years.
 
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gracepoole:
conflict minerals
Apple is not responsible for what is happening in the Congo any more than you. I assume your family uses light bulbs, maybe buys earrings, and someone even uses an underwire bra.
False. Really, really false. Apple and every other company makes ethical choices about how it conducts business. (There is such a thing as business ethics, after all.) If this weren’t the case, companies could dump toxic waste anywhere or they could start marketing and selling cocaine publicly. And yes, we all have to make ethical choices as consumers. I have made many choices based on whether companies used conflict minerals.
 
False. Really, really false. Apple and every other company makes ethical choices about how it conducts business. (There is such a thing as business ethics, after all.) If this weren’t the case, companies could dump toxic waste anywhere or they could start marketing and selling cocaine publicly. And yes, we all have to make ethical choices as consumers. I have made many choices based on whether companies used conflict minerals.
So your lightbulbs, earrings, and underwire bras don’t use conflict minerals, your certain of it?

Responsibility for the Congo resides far more on the actions/inactions of the UN and other world governments.

We’ve done a little bit but no much. I think Frank Dodd addresses this to some minor extent, in how companies operate.
 
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But I wasn’t talking about paying taxes in isolation. I’m talking about having to pay taxes for the purpose of having it taken from one person and given to another.

One has to recognize that’s it is not a good thing to take from one person , against their will, and give it to another. Breaking the Decalogue is not doing His will.
In Caesar’s government, people collected taxes to give to government officials and military, etc.

Jesus said to do it. Does that mean he advocates doing injustice? No, it is merely prudent.
Why not allow the wealthy to give to the needy to the best of their ability?
What happened to everyone pays their “fair share”?
These are not mutually exclusive.
Reaping the benefits? Don’t you mean earning the benefits?
The more we can earn in a particular society, the more we are reaping the benefit of being able to safely do business in that society (assuming the tax structure is fair, and the tax collector is abiding by it, etc.) Yes, it is earned.
Sorry, no. I think it is incorrect to imply that the wealthy are such by luck.
Implication not intended.
Maybe. Why not just say doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity, or, someone is continuing to benefit by the ongoing policy.
It is more gridlock than insanity, I think. We need some real leadership to come up with a better solution, and it may not be government leadership.

It’s something to commit to prayer. People suffer from not using their skills to do meaningful work. Agreed? 👍
 
That is not even remotely true. Social Security and unemployment alone more than double all military spending.
I was referring to the discretionary spending budget, the budget based on income taxes. Social Security is a payroll tax, and it is “supposed” to be self-supporting, a system whereby a person gets out what they put in with interest added. haha

It would work if the government hadn’t constantly take those payroll taxes for use elsewhere.

Anyway, our military spending is absolutely ridiculous. Even “foreign aid” to Egypt and Israel are essential military spending, and things like that go under the radar. Paying for loads of veteran’s benefits (especially health care for the injured) for those who serve is also military spending, as far as I’m concerned.
 
You said the majority of taxes, not of discretionary spending. A payroll tax is a tax.

In addition, our military spending is not ridiculous compared with what we expect it to do. If the American people want the military to be able to go anywhere in the world, to be able to intervene in genocide, topple dictatorships, or protect allies from aggressors, it is in fact not being funded enough. If the American people believe that the world should adhere to American and western democratic values, it is not being funded enough. Only if you think that the US should be isolationist is military spending too much. Which is fine, just remember that someone will fill that void to shape international systems that we will ultimately have to adhere to. Someone like China.
 
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You said the majority of taxes, not of discretionary spending. A payroll tax is a tax.

In addition, our military spending is not ridiculous compared with what we expect it to do. If the American people want the military to be able to go anywhere in the world, to be able to intervene in genocide, topple dictatorships, or protect allies from aggressors, it is in fact not being funded enough. If the American people believe that the world should adhere to American and western democratic values, it is not being funded enough. Only if you think that the US should be isolationist is military spending too much. Which is fine, just remember that someone will fill that void to shape international systems that we will ultimately have to adhere to. Someone like China.
In addition, the military encourages education in the sciences and in engineering.

And those things bring good things to all people.
 
You know, people who will use any tactic to win their argument. I use an example, and you pull one small aspect out of it as if that aspect invalidates it, which it doesn’t.

I’m sorry, tho; I did not mean to imply that you are not a good Catholic.
 
How very odd, it came up under my little icon.

Anyway, first, I thought you had, and second, even if I had known you hadn’t, I might have still replied, although slightly differently. Just because a person is replying to one person doesn’t mean another cannot reply.
 
You said the majority of taxes, not of discretionary spending. A payroll tax is a tax.
Yes, I did, and I apologize for my misstatement. I meant “discretionary spending”, the spending that our legislature has a choice as far as what to do with our taxes. What to do with Social Security and Medicare is already predetermined, they are essentially government-managedretirement and health insurance programs, which legislators are not supposed to plunder!
In addition, our military spending is not ridiculous compared with what we expect it to do.
Yes, the expectations are also ridiculous. We have no business dealing with those problems with our military.
Only if you think that the US should be isolationist
Diplomacy and working through sanctions is not isolationism.
Which is fine, just remember that someone will fill that void to shape international systems that we will ultimately have to adhere to. Someone like China.
This is the “If we don’t do it, someone else (an enemy, someone unsavory) will.” It is the rationalization of many, many evils in the world.

Suffice to say, it may very well be that China is more popular in Iraq, Iran, and many other places in the world where they have not used their military to solve problems.

“Isolationism”, meaning “not using military solutions” is the favorite word of Neocons and Neoliberals in the US. All of it is for the purpose of rationalizing the hostile stance we take toward all of Israel’s enemies.
 
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In Caesar’s government, people collected taxes to give to government officials and military, etc.

Jesus said to do it. Does that mean he advocates doing injustice? No, it is merely prudent.
I continue to be perplexed as to why you appear to believe I think people shouldn’t pay their taxes.
These are not mutually exclusive.
The evidence is obvious that the wealthy pay far more than their fair share, but here is what our wrote and I was responding to:
More people are falling below the line where taxes are due. Hopefully, they give to the needy to the best of their ability. Hopefully, they support society and law the best they can.
If you’re hopeful that people who don’t pay taxes help others , why can we not extend the same courtesy to those that do? Why force them to help others when we know that type of coercion is wrong?
The more we can earn in a particular society, the more we are reaping the benefit of being able to safely do business in that society (assuming the tax structure is fair, and the tax collector is abiding by it, etc.) Yes, it is earned.
Then you agree that those same benefits are available to all.
It is more gridlock than insanity, I think. We need some real leadership to come up with a better solution, and it may not be government leadership.
Yet every time those who believe as I do propose, we are called (by some) uncaring, evil, even unchristian. It often sounds like they are not interested in different ideas.
Not insanity- maintaining a dependent voting block perhaps?
 
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