APA false teaching..Homosexuals can change

[Used2beSherryG]

When did we start “becoming” our sexual proclivities? why must we :“announce” or pronounce ourselves as if all we are is what we desire in the flesh? This subject seems to be consuming our society. In the grand scheme of our lifetime, the majority of our time is spent in working, sleeping, hopefully contributing to society through good works, spending some time in relaxation or just having fun playing games. Did you ever ask yourself when this proportionately small facet of our personhood became so overblown and overemphasized and why this is so? This is truly the devils finest hour and his most successful attack on humanity so far.

 

[CopticChristian]

Some people like our dear friend Doctor CopticChristian insist that they can all change. And some people insist that is evil and sick or that it is caused by demonic possession. I’ve never seen someone say that it can be caused by something that isn’t negative, common things I see listed are molestation and lack of a father figure or that they clung to their mother too much (which is so Freudian).

Dakota,

Your dear friend believes as should you that all men were created equal and that in that regard all have the abililty and potential for change. Do you deny this?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

Your dear friend believes as should you that all men were created equal and that in that regard all have the abililty and potential for change. Do you deny this?

We are all created with equal dignity before God. We can change our actions though it may kill us. We can persevere against concupiscence though we can not destroy it.

2520 Baptism confers on its recipient the grace of purification from all sins.** But the baptized must continue to struggle against concupiscence of the flesh and disordered desires. With God’s grace he will prevail **

• by the virtue and gift of chastity, for chastity lets us love with upright and undivided heart;
• by purity of intention which consists in seeking the true end of man: with simplicity of vision, the baptized person seeks to find and to fulfill God’s will in everything;312
• by purity of vision, external and internal; by discipline of feelings and imagination; by refusing all complicity in impure thoughts that incline us to turn aside from the path of God’s commandments: “Appearance arouses yearning in fools”;313
• by prayer:

I thought that continence arose from one’s own powers, which I did not recognize in myself. I was foolish enough not to know . . . that no one can be continent unless you grant it. For you would surely have granted it if my inner groaning had reached your ears and I with firm faith had cast my cares on you.314

 

[CopticChristian]

We are all created with equal dignity before God. We can change our actions though it may kill us. We can persevere against concupiscence though we can not destroy it.

Dakota,

And with that dignity you seek first the Kingdom and Love of God and everything else including our body parts, our minds, our desires whatever they may be will avail us nothing…

Matthew 10:39

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Luke 17:33

Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Mark 8:36
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?

Matthew 16:26

What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Romans 8
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36Just as it is written,

     “FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
     WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

and so it goes…with the grace of God…all things are possible…on our own we can do nothing…

and before embarking on what suffering can and will do…ie cannot seperate you from the love of God…Paul starts this dialgue with this.

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

So, we as Christians, as followers of Christ are called to suffer…and all our belly aching about our conditions should be counted as groans of prayer…

26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

So, I and others should recognize that any and all complaints and groans about our poor plight, our difficulties, yours mine are nothing more than prayers…nothing more than our inability to vocalize what it is we should do…Amen brother pray away…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

And with that dignity you seek first the Kingdom and Love of God and everything else including our body parts, our minds, our desires whatever they may be will avail us nothing…

and so it goes…with the grace of God…all things are possible…on our own we can do nothing…

and before embarking on what suffering can and will do…ie cannot seperate you from the love of God…Paul starts this dialgue with this.

So, we as Christians, as followers of Christ are called to suffer…and all our belly aching about our conditions should be counted as groans of prayer…

So, I and others should recognize that any and all complaints and groans about our poor plight, our difficulties, yours mine are nothing more than prayers…nothing more than our inability to vocalize what it is we should do…Amen brother pray away…

What was the point of that post?

 

[CopticChristian]

What was the point of that post?

Dakota,

Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota,

Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul…

Which is supposed to mean what?

 

[CopticChristian]

Which is supposed to mean what?

It means that all men were created equal, as you say with equal dignity, and that in that regard all have the abililty and potential for change, and to vocalize our prayers even in groans.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

It means that all men were created equal, as you say with equal dignity, and that in that regard all have the abililty and potential for change, and to vocalize our prayers even in groans.

They have capacity to change their actions, but not to eliminate concupiscent desires. To argue they can eliminate concupiscent desires would be heretical and I presume you aren’t a heretic.

 

[jimmy]

In the case of the APA, there was no compelling evidence to show that it was a medical disorder.

Why do you think that all major reputable organisations on the planet with expertise in that area do not consider it as a disorder?

Or do you know some (other than the ones I mentioned) that do?

The DSM isn’t a list of medical disorders. If that were the case it wouldn’t include personality disorders, dissociative disorders, anxiety disorders, eating disorders, pica, and other odd disorders.

It is a list of behavioral and psychological disorders, which isn’t the same as medical disorders. If they were the same thing, diagnosis would require a medical doctor.

The only ones that can really be considered medical disorders are the physical stress disorders or psychosomatic disorders, which can only be considered medical disorders in a limited sense. They are the result of a high stress lifestyle.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

The DSM isn’t a list of medical disorders. If that were the case it wouldn’t include personality disorders, dissociative disorders, anxiety disorders, eating disorders, pica, and other odd disorders.

It is a list of behavioral and psychological disorders, which isn’t the same as medical disorders. If they were the same thing, diagnosis would require a medical doctor.

The only ones that can really be considered medical disorders are the physical stress disorders or psychosomatic disorders, which can only be considered medical disorders in a limited sense. They are the result of a high stress lifestyle.

Psychiatry is a medical specialisation…

 

[jimmy]

Psychiatry is a medical specialisation…

Psychology isn’t though. The APA is the American Psychology Association, not the American Psychiatric Asssociation. The DSM was written by psychologists for psychologists. Psychologists diagnose.

 

[CopticChristian]

They have capacity to change their actions, but not to eliminate concupiscent desires. To argue they can eliminate concupiscent desires would be heretical and I presume you aren’t a heretic.

Dakota,

This notion of heretic gets thrown around so much…look here…

mncuf.org/hocon.htm

We should now consider what the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons” of 1986 has to say.

“Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder. Therefore special concern and pastoral attention should be directed toward those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not.”

You may recall that The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), has been headed for many years by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger and is part of the Magisterium.

The CDF’s letter of 1986, is in complete agreement with the Catechism and the Council of Trent. Concupiscence, which is not a sin, is the tendency to go to what ever the imagination sees as desirable without regard to reason. In the case of homosexuals, the imagination sees as desirable an objectively disordered, intrinsic moral evil. Having only a tendency, or inclination toward this particular sin is not a sin. The object of the tendency’s desire, however, is a sin.

**How then did the imagination of homosexuals ever get so disordered? **

There has to be some understanding of how the mind works. Your mind, my mind, everyones mind has two sources of information, stored information and Imagination. In that regard if the above is true is it possible or impossible to change what it is you imagine? Please understand that imagined reality is ever as real as unimagined reality.

Imagination does and can change otherwise their would be no creativity or production of things in the world that were not there before. If you can imagine it then it can be accomplished.

Imagine yourself in a home, with windows, trees around it, fences, running water…you can imagine anything you choose to imagine…and then you can imagine that same home, red, blue, black…whatever you choose to imagine…you can imagine something as desireable or not desireable…if you deny this then you deny reality.

Imagination is the basis of hypnotherapy an accepted, founded practice. Do you want to dispute this?

 

[CopticChristian]

In the case of the APA, there was no compelling evidence to show that it was a medical disorder.

Why do you think that all major reputable organisations on the planet with expertise in that area do not consider it as a disorder?

Or do you know some (other than the ones I mentioned) that do?

Brad,

The APA changed the DSM concerning homosexuality, not based on anything sound except the sound of the voices of homosexual psychiatrists. I have posted this over and over and yet people like you want to spread faulty information…stop, please…

thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/204/81-words

The story of how the American Psychiatric Association decided in 1973 that homosexuality was no longer a mental illness.

Her radio documentary 81 Words, about the removal of homosexuality from psychiatry’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, is being turned into a film by HBO.

Homosexual Psychiatrists changed the DSM. It had to do only with the sound of the voices of Homosexuals and nothing to do with science.

The APA is not respected by this Physician and I am not the only one. You may want to look at William Glasser, MD. Psychiatry Can Be Hazardous to Your Mental Health…a book you can find on Amazon

amazon.com/Warning-Psychiatry-Hazardous-Mental-Health/dp/006053866X

You can also listen to him here…

youtube.com/watch?v=pGOg5uqrlXY

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Brad,

The APA changed the DSM concerning homosexuality, not based on anything sound except the sound of the voices of homosexual psychiatrists. I have posted this over and over and yet people like you want to spread faulty information…stop, please…

That is true, to an extent. That’s not to say homosexuality should be considered a mental illness, though. Christians generally argue that it may be a mental illness, not that it is. I’ve read articles which stated that, from a psychological perspective, there’s not much difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals. I’d agree that it was only changed from being a mental illness in order to please gay rights activists, but that’s not to say it was ever justified to call it a mental illness in the first place.

Of course, I’m not a psychiatrist and I don’t how we determine what is a mental illness. I know there are times in which it’s difficult to determine what is or isn’t a mental illness. For example, behaviour problems in children. People may be inclined to act a certain way, but that doesn’t necessarily make it an illness.

 

[CopticChristian]

]That is true, to an extent. That’s not to say homosexuality should be considered a mental illness, though. Christians generally argue that it may be a mental illness, not that it is. **I’ve read articles which stated that, from a psychological perspective, there’s not much difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals. I’d agree that it was only changed from being a mental illness in order to please gay rights activists, but that’s not to say it was ever justified to call it a mental illness in the first place./**QUOTE]

Brad,

True to an extent? Please elaborate since you said the change was based on sound science. If it is true to an extent then you still choose not to believe it is not true. By all means educate me.

So you have read articles, you know Christians argue that homosexuality is a mental illness and you falsely portrayed that this change was based on sound science. On what basis is this opinion of yours that something is or is not an illness?

Your notions of what is and what is not justified is based on what?

 

[Slavonic]

What sound science was there to support homosexuality being considered a mental illness? A lot of the opinions on homosexuals were based on a psychiatrist’s experience with patients who were homosexual. It was selection bias. Clinicians dealt with people who already had a mental illness and never dealt with normal, healthy homosexuals who would not need the care of a psychiatrist.

What evidence of disease is there in homosexuals? Depression? No, because depression is already and mental illness so there’s no need to add that. Substance Abuse? No, substance abuse stands on it’s own as its own problem. Anxiety? Nope, already there.

Now let’s consider the things that mental health professionals would categorize as normal, healthy behaviors. Holding a job, LGBTs do that. Maintaining social relationships, including family, friends, and close partners. Yes. Active in their communities, yes. Maintaining a household and functioning as an independent adult, yes LGBTs do that. Pursuing hobbies and other interests, yes. So, where’s the evidence of disease?

 

[fix]

Now let’s consider the things that mental health professionals would categorize as normal, healthy behaviors. Holding a job, LGBTs do that. Maintaining social relationships, including family, friends, and close partners. Yes. Active in their communities, yes. Maintaining a household and functioning as an independent adult, yes LGBTs do that. Pursuing hobbies and other interests, yes. So, where’s the evidence of disease?

You have stated the problem well. The problem is how health and disease are defined. If one is “healthy” simply because they can hold a job and not burn down their house then we can claim many deviant behaviors are “healthy”.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Brad,

True to an extent? Please elaborate since you said the change was based on sound science. If it is true to an extent then you still choose not to believe it is not true. By all means educate me.

It should have not been considered a mental illness as, from what I’ve read, while there was nothing to suggest it was necessarily normal human thought there wasn’t any sound evidence that it was a mental illness, either. Therefore, it can’t really be considered a mental illness until shown otherwise. While it’s true that it could be a mental illness, it can’t be considered one until we know it is.

When I said the change was fine, I meant that I do believe homosexuals can be changed. Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s a mental illness, now, does it? I believe you could turn a heterosexual into a homosexual via the same methods. I don’t believe sexuality is fixed. If it is a purely psychological thing, as it seems to be, then it could be influenced anywhere. However, it’s not easy to do so. That much is evident.

So you have read articles, you know Christians argue that homosexuality is a mental illness and you falsely portrayed that this change was based on sound science. On what basis is this opinion of yours that something is or is not an illness?

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. When I was arguing that homosexuals can be changed, I wasn’t arguing that homosexuality is a mental illness. The definition of a mental illness is not “something that can be changed”. You’re also wrong to suggest that all Christians argue that homosexuality is a mental illness. But I haven’t heard anything compelling from anyone to suggest that it is a mental illness. Lots of people claim the APA only changed their view of homosexuality due to gay rights activists, which I believe, but even if that’s true that doesn’t make it a mental illness.

Your notions of what is and what is not justified is based on what?

Evidence and reasoning, obviously. Is homosexuality a mental illness? We don’t know. Should it be classed as a mental illness before we can actually decide for sure? No.

And my name isn’t Brad.

You have stated the problem well. The problem is how health and disease are defined. If one is “healthy” simply because they can hold a job and not burn down their house then we can claim many deviant behaviors are “healthy”.

Or, many deviant behaviours are either not deviant, or the fact that you consider them deviant doesn’t actually mean anything. At all.

 

[fix]

Or, many deviant behaviours are either not deviant, or the fact that you consider them deviant doesn’t actually mean anything. At all.

That is my point. If you mischaracterize health and disease then anything goes. That is why illegitimate psychology and illegitimate medical practices need to be evaluated not just based on the opinion of professional/political groups but in the light of common sense and right reason.