Apocrypha

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Faith1960

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Do Protestants consider the extra books in the Catholic Bible (Maccabees, etc.) to be the apocrypha? Why?
 
adamhovey1988 said:
First and second Maccabees are not Apocrypha they are deuterocanonical
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The word “apocrypha” when used by Protestants is synonymous with the word “deuterocanon” when used by Catholics 99.999% of the time. Yes. The books that we have in the Bible Canon that the Protestant Bible Canon does not (like the Maccabees) are called “apocrypha” by them.
 
As for the “Why?” They consider the books to not be inspired. Thus, they call them “apocrypha.”
 
Faith1960 said:
Can someone list the reasons we know they ARE inspired?
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To put it simply, because the Church Christ established says so. I’m not particularly knowledgeable in the history of the Bible Canon itself.

I know that the councils of Hippo and Carthage (?) both independently (but not infallibly, as they were local councils) confirmed the Canon we use today. I believe another council infallibly defined it, and it was confirmed and promulgated by a Pope. Everything in this post is my limited knowledge on the subject. If I’m wrong, don’t hesitate to correct me.
 
Faith1960 said:
Do Protestants consider the extra books in the Catholic Bible (Maccabees, etc.) to be the apocrypha? Why?
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Yes Protestants do, they do not consider them inspired. The question is by what authority did they remove those inspired books?
 
Faith1960 said:
Can someone list the reasons we know they ARE inspired?
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We know because of the authority Christ passed on to the apostles. The Apostles passed that authority on to other men called bishops and those bishops pass on that authority ordaining others and will do so till the end. the Church specifically defined the present canon at the Council of Trent.

[Mt28:19 **Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.]

Promising the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth.

[Jn16:13 Howbeit when he, the **Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth **: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.]

Paul even checked the truth of his gospel with that one fellowship’s teaching.

[Gal2:1Then fourteen years after **I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.]

All who were baptized were added to that one visible fellowship.

[Acts2:41 Then **they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

There was one doctrine, one fellowship, one worship breaking of bread=Mass.

[Eph3:8 **Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,]

It is this one visible fellowship, the Church, by which the manifold wisdom of God is now known. Christ established One Church not thousands and he gave the keys to Peter.

[1Tm3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.]

[1Cor1:9 **God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.]

Christ sent one teaching authority (magisterium) to teach the whole world to observe all he commanded. Christ promised to be with that teaching authority till the end of the world., Mt28:16-20. He does that thru successors. The apostles appointed bishops those bishops appointed bishops and will continue till the end.
 
YoungApologist3 said:
The word “apocrypha” when used by Protestants is synonymous with the word “deuterocanon” when used by Catholics 99.999% of the time. Yes. The books that we have in the Bible Canon that the Protestant Bible Canon does not (like the Maccabees) are called “apocrypha” by them.
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I know what you mean, but for the sake of precision, no, the words “deuterocanonical” and “apocryphal” are not “synonymous” (i.e.have the same meaning). As you say, they do refer to the same sets of books, but we say “deuterocanonical” because they are the “second-canon” or “also-canonical”. Protestants call them “apocrypha”, meaning hidden or secret because they doubt their authenticity as Scripture.

As Catholics, books WE call “apocrypha” include books like 3 and 4 Maccabees and Psalm 151…which the Greek Orthodox recognize to be canon. Orthodox call these and our deuterocanonical books by a different term, since “deuterocanonical” has an entirely different meaning to them.
 
The Protestant “Reformers” removed every book that disagreed with their heresies or that was a part of the Catholic heritage.

1 & 2 Maccabees: had to be deleted because 2 Maccabees clearly declares the spiritual value and truth of prayer for the dead and the intercession of the Saints.

Wisdom: had to be deleted because it blows Luther and Calvin’s heresy of “double predestination” to smithereens. 🙂

Judith had to be deleted because it can too easily be turned against the venal kings who supported Luther and led, in time, to such heresies as each country in Christendom being entitled to a “national religion”. More importantly, as Judith is a type of the Blessed Virgin Mary, it was a thorn in the side of their anti-Marian heresies and blasphemies.

The removal of Additions to Esther can be explained in a similar way, as Queen Esther’s prayer prefigures the intercession that Mary, Queen of Heaven makes for us poor sinners.

The Prayer of the Three Young Men (Daniel) was discarded because it is an important part of Catholic liturgy. Once it went, they had to discard the other additions - and the fact that the story of Susanna would have pricked the conscience of Luther, who violated his vows of celibacy and married a former nun - couldn’t have helped much.

As for Tobit, it once again had to be “axed” because of its teachings on the role of Angels as our guardians and intercessors. Can’t have that, not with Luther and Calvin developing their own bizarre notion of “Soli Deo gloria”.

We as Catholics would do well to treasure these books of Sacred Scripture, as they are part of our spiritual patrimony and a refutation of numerous Protestant heresies. 🙂
 
Faith1960 said:
Can someone list the reasons we know they ARE inspired?
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There is no mystery here. The Church established by Christ and given authority in matters of faith and morals guided by the Holy Spirit has determined they are inspired.
That’s all you need to know.
 
Protestants are really missing out by dumping the Apocrypha. Some of the most profound readings are in them.
 
RomanoAmerio said:
The Protestant “Reformers” removed every book that disagreed with their heresies or that was a part of the Catholic heritage.

1 & 2 Maccabees: had to be deleted because 2 Maccabees clearly declares the spiritual value and truth of prayer for the dead and the intercession of the Saints.

Wisdom: had to be deleted because it blows Luther and Calvin’s heresy of “double predestination” to smithereens. 🙂

Judith had to be deleted because it can too easily be turned against the venal kings who supported Luther and led, in time, to such heresies as each country in Christendom being entitled to a “national religion”. More importantly, as Judith is a type of the Blessed Virgin Mary, it was a thorn in the side of their anti-Marian heresies and blasphemies.

The removal of Additions to Esther can be explained in a similar way, as Queen Esther’s prayer prefigures the intercession that Mary, Queen of Heaven makes for us poor sinners.

The Prayer of the Three Young Men (Daniel) was discarded because it is an important part of Catholic liturgy. Once it went, they had to discard the other additions - and the fact that the story of Susanna would have pricked the conscience of Luther, who violated his vows of celibacy and married a former nun - couldn’t have helped much.

As for Tobit, it once again had to be “axed” because of its teachings on the role of Angels as our guardians and intercessors. Can’t have that, not with Luther and Calvin developing their own bizarre notion of “Soli Deo gloria”.

We as Catholics would do well to treasure these books of Sacred Scripture, as they are part of our spiritual patrimony and a refutation of numerous Protestant heresies. 🙂
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So the Deuterocanan (sp) books were part of the original Bible and Protestants removed them?
 
The Catholic Church recognizes
Tobit
Judith
Additions to Esther (Vulgate Esther 10:4–16:24)
Wisdom (also called the Wisdom of Solomon)
Sirach (also called Ecclesiasticus)
Baruch, including the Letter of Jeremiah (Additions to Jeremiah in the Septuagint)
Additions to Daniel:
Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Holy Children (Vulgate Daniel 3:24–90)
Susanna (Vulgate Daniel 13, Septuagint prologue)
Bel and the Dragon (Vulgate Daniel 14, Septuagint epilogue)
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

Orthodox Bibles tend to have even more but isn’t as formal. These include
1 Esdras and also in Latin Vulgate appendix as 3 Esdras
3 Maccabees
Psalm 151
Prayer of Mannaseh and also in Latin Vulgate appendix
2 Esdras in Slavonic Bible and also Latin Vulgate appendix as 4 Esdras
4 Maccabees in Greek Bible appendix
 
Rather, they fail to miss the books that have been removed from their bibles. Pre-Christian Jews wrote, used and preserved those books so that they could be included in the collection known as the Septuagint - the version most often quoted by our Lord and the Apostles.

Those who dismiss, if not excoriate the Deuterocanon either avoid reading them, or look only for reasons not to believe - following the methodology of the atheists. Who can read Wisdom, chapter 2 and not see the most clear prophecy of Christ in all of the Old Testament? And, this was written perhaps 50 years before the Incarnation.
 
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