Apostasy in the Reorganized Mormons and LDS Mormons

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I had been a member of the RLDS church for the past few years, and noticed that they have women in the priesthood, where in the LDS faith, there are only men. So now I see that they are pretty much Mainline Protestant trinitarians now. They changed quite a bit since 2000, when I started going to the RLDS church, but the LDS faith, may be sticking right where it is, because it is more interested in following the spirit, than the basic Trinitarian christian concept. So I basically see 2 churches that are unchanging to modern times, which are the Catholic Church, and the LDS church of Salt Lake.
 
Semper_Fi said:
Kristine, Joseph Smith often changed his opinions on doctrine so it’s hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint which church follows the ‘true Mormon’ doctrine. The Prairie Saints (RLDS) Book of Mormon uses the unedited edition and the Rocky Mountain Saints (LDS) use a version that has been highly edited by various Presidencies.
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The Book of Mormon in use by the LDS Church was edited by Joseph Smith in three major editions (1837, 1840, 1841). The RLDS Church uses primarily the 1837 edition while the LDS Church uses the 1841 with other changes that follow the original manuscript (cf Alma 32:28). Since the first edition was the product of dictation, the LDS Church has also made some changes based upon scribal errors. For example, the words “strait” and “straight” were always written as “straight” even though the context indicates that “straight” was sometimes the correct word. Those corrections have been made as well as others to standardize grammar and spelling.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
 
Geocacher said:
So I basically see 2 churches that are unchanging to modern times, which are the Catholic Church, and the LDS church of Salt Lake.
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I think it depends on what you consider “modern.” The Salt Lake LDS branch dropped polygamy, which was THE most distinctive thing about them, just prior to the dawn of the 20th century, during the 1890s, because the U.S. Government was on verge of dismantling them unless they did.

I’d certainly consider the 1890s to be modern times.

Other changes have taken place since then. Such as the revelatory change to the prohibition of Africans to the priesthood, which didn’t happen until the late 1970s.

These are significant changes.
 
Alma147 said:
The Book of Mormon in use by the LDS Church was edited by Joseph Smith in three major editions (1837, 1840, 1841). The RLDS Church uses primarily the 1837 edition while the LDS Church uses the 1841 with other changes that follow the original manuscript (cf Alma 32:28). Since the first edition was the product of dictation, the LDS Church has also made some changes based upon scribal errors. For example, the words “strait” and “straight” were always written as “straight” even though the context indicates that “straight” was sometimes the correct word. Those corrections have been made as well as others to standardize grammar and spelling.

Alma
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Alma, were there any changes to the BoM either by Joseph Smith or subsequent to him, which affected Mormon doctrine in any way? Or were they all on the order of spelling corrections?

Also, since you are familiar with the landscape, can you explain the comparison between the Salt Lake LDS and the FLDS? I see there is a chasm between RLDS and LDS, and am wondering how FLDS fits in between, or outside of, those two branches.
 
Geocacher said:
I had been a member of the RLDS church for the past few years, and noticed that they have women in the priesthood, where in the LDS faith, there are only men. So now I see that they are pretty much Mainline Protestant trinitarians now. They changed quite a bit since 2000, when I started going to the RLDS church, but the LDS faith, may be sticking right where it is, because it is more interested in following the spirit, than the basic Trinitarian christian concept. So I basically see 2 churches that are unchanging to modern times, which are the Catholic Church, and the LDS church of Salt Lake.
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Geocacher :ehh: I agree for the most part, however when you said the 2 churches that are unchanging are Catholic and LDS… I disagree about the LDS church “unchanging to modern times” They have changed alot examples such as temple ceremonies, BoM changes, Priesthood,just to name a few…
 
Allweather said:
Alma, were there any changes to the BoM either by Joseph Smith or subsequent to him, which affected Mormon doctrine in any way? Or were they all on the order of spelling corrections?
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I think that might depend upon your interpretation. From my perspective, the answer is no, but others think the changes did. Some instances in the first edition to “God” as “the eternal father” and Mary as “the mother of God.” Those were changed by Joseph Smith to read “the Son of the eternal Father” and "the mother of the Son of God. Since either passage correctly identifies Jesus as God, I don’t think it’s a problem, but some think it’s a doctrinal revision. (I personally think that they would have remained unchanged if not for Catholic influence, but that’s my personal opinion.) Anyway, other passages in the Book of Mormon referring to Christ as the “Eternal Father” remain unchanged. I made a Microsoft Reader document with all the changes between the 1830 and 1980 editions highlighted. I don’t think they’re substantive.
Also, since you are familiar with the landscape, can you explain the comparison between the Salt Lake LDS and the FLDS? I see there is a chasm between RLDS and LDS, and am wondering how FLDS fits in between, or outside of, those two branches.
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The chasm is pretty wide. (1) Mormons believe that ordinations to the priesthood must be validated by the vote of the members. The FLDS bases its genesis on secret ordinations without any vote. (2) FLDS has only 1/3 of the standard trinity. The believe that the Father is Adam (of Garden of Eden fame), and that the Holy Spirit is Joseph Smith (despite the fact that this was an early heresy shortly after the death of Joseph Smith that was publicly condemned as false by Brigham Young and the other apostles. (3) Mormons believe that one of our most important duties is to perform vicarious ordinances (such as baptism) for the dead. The FLDS rejects all such temple ordinances except marriage for the living. (4) Mormons believe in obeying the constitutional law of the land. We did challenge the laws against polygamy but after they were upheld by the Supreme Court and all avenues of appeal were exhausted, the LDS Church ceased practicing polygamy. FLDS continue to violate those laws. (5) We believe that Jesus Christ established His Church with Peter as its head as the chief apostle and that it was appointed to be governed by apostles. FLDS has a “council of Friends” of 7 leaders with one unchecked leader. Each member of the Mormon Church is subject to discipline and no one is exempt.

Those are some of the biggies. There are lots more, but my biased perspective on those others might be open to challenge by FLDS people. I did write a couple of articles on fundamentalist polygamists on my blog last June or July. If you’re interested in more about that, you might want to read there.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
 
Kristine1957 said:
Geocacher :ehh: I agree for the most part, however when you said the 2 churches that are unchanging are Catholic and LDS… I disagree about the LDS church “unchanging to modern times” They have changed alot examples such as temple ceremonies, BoM changes, Priesthood,just to name a few…
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I meant as far as women in the Priesthood, as I indicated in my last post. So many churches are just trying to fit in with society by allowing women in the priesthood, and others that are out of the closet types into the priesthood. I know that basic doctrine has been modified over the years to fit with the times.
 
Alma147 said:
Those are some of the biggies. There are lots more, but my biased perspective on those others might be open to challenge by FLDS people. I did write a couple of articles on fundamentalist polygamists on my blog last June or July. If you’re interested in more about that, you might want to read there.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
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Thanks, Alma for the information. I’ve peeked in on your blog and read a couple of the articles. I’ll look for those on the fundamentalists today if I get some time.
 
Semper_Fi said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keikiolu

Arghhh,… they worship the Cosmic Nautilus…!!?

And the “cross” is just a calibration mark to establish north-south’edness so that when the Cosmic Nautilus comes, He won’t “mate” badly and injure Himself.
The RLDS are Trinitarian Mormons with an Evangelical Protestant flavor.
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Hmmmm,… I’ve never been taken seriously quite like that before.

I’m stunned. Perhaps there’s something TO this Cosmic Nautilus God…!?
 
Semper_Fi said:
beware of that website… it is particularly biased on a lot of articles despite the claim in its name…
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Semper Fi: Thanks for the information on the website There are way to many articles to read there!:eek: And not enough time for them all !🙂
 
I just barely saw this thread. Maybe no one else is paying attention to it anymore, but just as a warning to everyone for future reference: Alma is feeding you all a big crock of hooey!

He’s misrepresenting the beliefs and histories of all other Mormon denominations for the worse, and misrepresenting the beliefs and history of his preferred brand of Mormonism* for the better.*

He also is downplaying certain difficulties which affect ALL Mormons, no matter what their denomination-affiliation. I would take everything he says with a grain of salt.
 
GIMJ said:
I just barely saw this thread. Maybe no one else is paying attention to it anymore, but just as a warning to everyone for future reference: Alma is feeding you all a big crock of hooey!

He’s misrepresenting the beliefs and histories of all other Mormon denominations for the worse, and misrepresenting the beliefs and history of his preferred brand of Mormonism* for the better.*

He also is downplaying certain difficulties which affect ALL Mormons, no matter what their denomination-affiliation. I would take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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LOL…I cant wait to see your reaction to all the other LDS threads around here 😃
 
GIMJ said:
I just barely saw this thread. Maybe no one else is paying attention to it anymore, but just as a warning to everyone for future reference: Alma is feeding you all a big crock of hooey!
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You came in after Zerinus. If you get time, poke back a month or so ago and find some of his gems. Right after he left, in came Montague, who apparently lives in Ireland, but he’s laying low right now for some reason. An Irish Mormon… how strange is that? At first we thought Montague was Zerinus come back under a different screen-name, because there was a striking similarity in style.

We haven’t heard from Alma for quite awhile. Hopefully he’ll come back soon and get back into the discussions.
 
Allweather said:
You came in after Zerinus. If you get time, poke back a month or so ago and find some of his gems. Right after he left, in came Montague, who apparently lives in Ireland, but he’s laying low right now for some reason. An Irish Mormon… how strange is that? At first we thought Montague was Zerinus come back under a different screen-name, because there was a striking similarity in style.

We haven’t heard from Alma for quite awhile. Hopefully he’ll come back soon and get back into the discussions.
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I’ve read some of Zerinius’ posts. They’re intolerable. You can tell he’s a budding Mormon apologist. Does he want to be a high school seminary teacher? I frankly wouldn’t be surprised–he’s totally got the personality for it.

An Irish Mormon, huh? It’s not too strange. A whole wave of Mormons came from Ireland in the mid-19th century, so a lot of us have roots going back there.🤷
 
Groups within the
Latter Day Saint Movement

This page is devoted to the study of the history and theology of those groups which can be traced back to the Church of Christ organized by Joseph Smith, Jr. in 1830.

Aaronic Order
Apostolic United Brethren (Allred)
Bulla, Art
Church of Christ at Zion’s Retreat
Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
Church of Christ “The Church with the Elijah Message”, The
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message
Church of Christ “With The Elijah Message” Established Anew1929, The
Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ - His Zion’s Remnant, The
Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly (Joseph)
Church of Jesus Christ in Zion (Billings)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel , The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Reorganized, Inc.
Church of Jesus Christ of Restoration Saints
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God
Church of Jesus Christ, Zion’s Branch
Community of Christ
Conference of Restoration Elders
Corporation of the Fundamentalist Church (Jeffs)
Jesus Christ of the United World Order (Gonzalez)
Latter-Day Church of Christ (Kingston)
New Covenant Church of God
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, see Community of Christ
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God - see Church of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Restoration Festival, Inc.
Restored Church of Jesus Christ
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Sons Ahman Israel
Toney, Forest
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
World Church of Jesus Christ (possibly defunct)

jasonsmithconsulting.com/research/groups/lds/other/list.htm

Steven L. Shields, Divergent Paths of the Restoration: A History of the Latter Day Saint Movement Los Angeles: 1990.

Jon Krakauer, Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith New York: 2003.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Saint_movement

Title: 3,913 Changes in the Book of Mormon
Author: Jerald and Sandra Tanner
Publisher: Utah Lighthouse Ministry
utlm.org/booklist/titles/3913changesinthebookofmormon_ub003.htm
 
Alma147 said:
The Mormon church believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet to his last breath and the RLDS believes he was a fallen prophet. That probably is the most succinct distinction between the two churches.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
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The RLDS do not view Joseph as a fallen prophet. Where did you get that from?
 
Allweather said:
You came in after Zerinus. If you get time, poke back a month or so ago and find some of his gems. Right after he left, in came Montague, who apparently lives in Ireland, but he’s laying low right now for some reason. An Irish Mormon… how strange is that? At first we thought Montague was Zerinus come back under a different screen-name, because there was a striking similarity in style.

We haven’t heard from Alma for quite awhile. Hopefully he’ll come back soon and get back into the discussions.
Click to expand...
Zerinus left?
 
GIMJ said:
I just barely saw this thread. Maybe no one else is paying attention to it anymore, but just as a warning to everyone for future reference: Alma is feeding you all a big crock of hooey!

He’s misrepresenting the beliefs and histories of all other Mormon denominations for the worse, and misrepresenting the beliefs and history of his preferred brand of Mormonism* for the better.*

He also is downplaying certain difficulties which affect ALL Mormons, no matter what their denomination-affiliation. I would take everything he says with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Well, GIMJ, perhaps you could specifically identify what is hooey in what I’ve written. I’m willing to back up what I’ve said with lots of documentation. Could you be specific?

Alma
 
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