Apparitions, an annoyance

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Forget the stories.
You can rely on the Holy Bible and the Tradition of our Mother Church. You don’t need anything else.

Are you annoyed by Our Lord’s Resurrection and appearances?
At some point, we in the physical world need to realise there is more to existence than “what eyes can see and ears can hear”. If you absolutely only want to know the physical world and reject the promise of the spiritual, then why would you even pray? Do you pray?

Don’t let the stories put you off the basic facts. Many stories are silly. They are not all from God. Some stories are useful to some people by leading them in particular ways. Fine for them.

Religions accumulate stories. It is a human nature thing, not necessarily Christian.
 
Apparitions (in the post Apostolic Age) are considered “private revelation” and are not part of the deposit of faith. All public revelation (which is part of the deposit of faith) ceased with the death of last Apostle. No private apparition or revelation is required to be believed by the faithful. The Church has approved some private revelation (to include those of Saint Faustina), which means that there is nothing revealed that contradicts the faith and it is worthy of belief. You are free to believe or not believe in those apparitions. However I would recommend prudence when choosing to Not believe in an approved apparition; the Church does not grant approval lightly and conducts lengthy investigations prior to approving one.
Many apparitions are neither approved or disapproved, and may simply be pious legends; real or not they generally are only truly significant to the one who received them.
Saint Faustina’s encounters as related in her diary is a truly moving piece. Keep in mind the painting of the Divine Mercy was done by other artists based on her description, so obviously there is artistic license to them. However I would caution you on what you describe as feminine in the painting. there have been many customs over the years and in many cultures where what is considered masculine looks rather femine based on another cultures prospective. The true meaning of the painting is that Our Lord comes to us with his mercy (made present by water and blood) we need only to accept His mercy.
 
Bonnie said:
I am so glad the Church has said we don’t have to believe private apparitions. I wish there were also directives on Catholic legends, mostly saints who never existed. Made-up stories passed off as truth do water down the faith.

Former, I don’t have any guidance for you as I’m looking for some myself. Here’s hoping someone (or several) will be able to come up with some help for us!
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Father Benedict Groeschel wrote a book called “A Still Small Voice” which sheds a lot of light on how to understand apparitions.
 
Bonnie said:
I am so glad the Church has said we don’t have to believe private apparitions. I wish there were also directives on Catholic legends, mostly saints who never existed. Made-up stories passed off as truth do water down the faith.

Former, I don’t have any guidance for you as I’m looking for some myself. Here’s hoping someone (or several) will be able to come up with some help for us!
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Like St. Christopher, the “Patron Saint of Travelers”?
 
A great little book on the topic is the late Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s A Still, Small Voice. Fr. Groeschel was a pyschologist as well as a Franciscan priest. He writes in clear words and with great insight into apparitions, etc. giving us the Church’s understanding of them. I highly recommend it to all who ask about this issue. 🙂
 
smead2942 said:
Like St. Christopher, the “Patron Saint of Travelers”?
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Yep. And my confirmation saint. I found out several years later that she was a legend and never existed - St. Martina. I have since chosen patron saints about whose existence there is no doubt.
 
I don’t think it is in good Catholic taste to use this thread to disparage the existence of saints. No one can prove that they didn’t exist. Like Fr. Groeschel’s Mrs. Nussbaum always used to ask: you were there???

When you die, you will find out for sure. :tiphat:
 
Bonnie said:
Yep. And my confirmation saint. I found out several years later that she was a legend and never existed - St. Martina. I have since chosen patron saints about whose existence there is no doubt.
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Well, it’s not so simple as that. 🙂 It’s not that she didn’t exist–it’s that there is no documentation for her, only legends. Saints were declared by popular acclaim at one time, and many of their histories have been lost over time. She was probably removed from the universal Church calendar for that reason, but those parishes, etc. named after her may still celebrate her memorial day in honor of her. So, you don’t need to choose another saint, although you may choose any saint(s) you wish for your patron(s). I have a least 3 myself.
 
FormerXCatholic said:
Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain?
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A vision could be a physical manifestation, it could be an inner vision. See this article:

newadvent.org/cathen/15477a.htm
FormerXCatholic said:
I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that?
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I think you’d have to expand quite a bit on why you are sick of reading about apparitions, why you term them “stupid”, why you question the Church’s “motives”, and why you believe that would create “psychological baggage” before anyone here could really discuss the matter or answer such questions.

You may not realize that the concerns you list are not self-evident to others.
FormerXCatholic said:
I’m sorry but it just ticks me off.
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Why?
FormerXCatholic said:
And how can I validate these things myself?
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Again, why?
FormerXCatholic said:
Where can I read Peters claims?
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There aren’t any contemporary or autobiographical writings, to my knowledge. The chroniclers of the order he founded wrote biographies a few centuries later. I believe the writings come from the late 1500s and early 1600s.
FormerXCatholic said:
Is that just locked up hidden in the Vatican somewhere…sorry guys, but I just can’t handle this anymore.
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Hmm, you seem to have a very negative view of the Church, based on such comments as above. Why is it you believe the Vatican is locking something up? What is it you cannot handle?
FormerXCatholic said:
And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…
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Again, strange comments with no context. I am not sure what about a man with long hair and a beard is “feminine” in your estimation, or why you seem to have such animosity towards St Faustina or the Divine Mercy, but it doesn’t seem founded on anything substantive from this comment.
FormerXCatholic said:
I need some guidance on how to approach these things. Please, I need help.
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a1.htm

There will be no further Revelation

66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
 
Such private revelations are entirely optional, FormerXCatholic. Believe or don’t believe in them as you see fit. But there are, in fact, Divine Mercy images where Jesus does not look like a transvestite. I love the Divine Mercy chaplet; you don’t have to embrace the story, but at least try to embrace the idea of God’s immeasurable love for you.

It’s perfectly fine to think a certain depiction of a Catholic figure is tacky. St. Josemaria Escriva didn’t like “painted statues that look like they’re made of candy”. I work at a Catholic book and gift store, and we have (or had) statues of Mary that look like they belong on a mini golf course.

In my case, I was really big into Fatima when I first embraced Catholicism, but now not so much, since I’ve encountered Fatima devotees who were essentially a doomsday cult. It’s good that you remain skeptical about such things, because the Vatican is as well. They don’t buy alleged apparitions willy-nilly (they recently put a grain-of-salt warning on Medjugorje). For every apparition they approve there are about several thousand they reject. There are a lot of copycats, wannabes, charlatans, and outright frauds out there.

So your feelings are nothing to be ashamed of. For now, focus on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ Himself. The saints, especially mystics and those who have appeared, will not be offended. Don’t feel like you’re not a “real” Catholic, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
Bonnie said:
I am so glad the Church has said we don’t have to believe private apparitions. I wish there were also directives on Catholic legends, mostly saints who never existed. Made-up stories passed off as truth do water down the faith.

Former, I don’t have any guidance for you as I’m looking for some myself. Here’s hoping someone (or several) will be able to come up with some help for us!
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Holy legends do no water down the faith. They exist as teaching aid to illustrate truths of the faith.
St. Christopher found that in giving of himself…to cross the deadly waters, he found Christ and found that the burden was not enough to drown him. Sounds like a teaching moment to me.
This is a basic truth. There are allegories in Scripture.
It’s a common enough device.
It’s not about the person, but the message.

I recommend reading the life of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.
She had doubts, but she believed in truth, and worked FOR truth. She’s truly a Saint for these doubting times.
 
pianistclare said:
Holy legends do no water down the faith. …
There are allegories in Scripture.
It’s a common enough device.
It’s not about the person, but the message.
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Except when they are taught as true events and/or people. If it is made clear that the story is an allegory, I have no problem with it.
 
janman55 said:
The “apparition” of the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima Portugal was witnessed by more than 50,000 people who were mostly skeptical non-believers, yet no one is required to believe it ever happened. As you grow spiritually you may become open to the possibilities.

Don’t let your heart be troubled.
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I’m still trying to find a photo of the miracle of the sun… do you know where one can be found?
 
godisgood77 said:
I’m still trying to find a photo of the miracle of the sun… do you know where one can be found?
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Vatican carried out their own investigation. As they do all.

Many healing occurrences may happen at Lourdes but only a handful are called miracles.
 
Path_Finder said:
Vatican carried out their own investigation. As they do all.

Many healing occurrences may happen at Lourdes but only a handful are called miracles.
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I’m familiar with how the Vatican carries out investigations…was looking for a photo of the miracle.
 
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