Apparitions of Mary

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… I think it is a miracle b/c atheists, Protestants, etc…have converted to Catholicism…

I’m sure the people of Medjugorgie are very inspiring Catholics. Good luck and God bless them and their converts.

There is a gigantic statue of Christ that oozes oil from it’s leg non stoppable. Scientists cannot figure out where it is coming from.

Which scientist? It would help if you had a credible reference.

A quick search on google shows that “no scientific study has been done on the Risen Christ statue”.

Where have you heard of ‘fake’ apparitions? Where were they?

While I admire your faith, I think your research skills need sharpening. I don’t want to belittle your faith by showing you of fake apparitions, but there was somebody named “little pebble” who took my family for a ride. My parents were not hurt by him in anyway, but they were certainly embarrassed for believing him.

I think I’ve said too much. I don’t want to concentrate on fake apparitions. Please - I don’t want to derail this thread.

I want to know why I should believe in Medjugorje. So far, Medjugorje has not displayed the miracles that Lourdes, Fatima and Guadalupe have displayed.

 

[Righteousone]

I’m sure the people of Medjugorgie are very inspiring Catholics. Good luck and God bless them and their converts.

Which scientist? It would help if you had a credible reference.

A quick search on google shows that “no scientific study has been done on the Risen Christ statue”.

While I admire your faith, I think your research skills need sharpening. I don’t want to belittle your faith by showing you of fake apparitions, but there was somebody named “little pebble” who took my family for a ride. My parents were not hurt by him in anyway, but they were certainly embarrassed for believing him.

I think I’ve said too much. I don’t want to concentrate on fake apparitions. Please - I don’t want to derail this thread.

I want to know why I should believe in Medjugorje. So far, Medjugorje has not displayed the miracles that Lourdes, Fatima and Guadalupe have displayed.

My research skills are fine Mr. Zeaiter. As far as your parents are concerned, thank God they were ok. It is easy for one to follow someone and believe wholeheartedly in them, people want hope, but hope is where Jesus revealed it to you, in the Catholic church.
I would never tell anyone to believe in something if they haven’t experienced it or haven’t read about it. Maybe you could read a book about it by Wayne Weible…interesting read.
We will find out soon about Medjugorgie. We will all be surprised by it. If you believe in Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe, (don’t forget Garabandal, Spain), then maybe you’ll believe Medjugorgie. Read about it first, then comment.

 

[Righteousone]

I’m sure the people of Medjugorgie are very inspiring Catholics. Good luck and God bless them and their converts.

Which scientist? It would help if you had a credible reference.

A quick search on google shows that “no scientific study has been done on the Risen Christ statue”.

While I admire your faith, I think your research skills need sharpening. I don’t want to belittle your faith by showing you of fake apparitions, but there was somebody named “little pebble” who took my family for a ride. My parents were not hurt by him in anyway, but they were certainly embarrassed for believing him.

I think I’ve said too much. I don’t want to concentrate on fake apparitions. Please - I don’t want to derail this thread.

I want to know why I should believe in Medjugorje. So far, Medjugorje has not displayed the miracles that Lourdes, Fatima and Guadalupe have displayed.

BTW, you left out the part when a man took a cloth and put it on the leg of Christ, took it off and found blood. 50 people witnessed this miracle.

 

[Antegin]

Where have you heard of ‘fake’ apparitions? Where were they?

I can tell you about one local “seer” from Flushing New York. Her name was Veronica Leuken. If you read her reading for yourself, don’t forget to get the results of the investigation by the local ordinary which was reviewed and approved by the Comgregation when it was being run by the current Holy Father

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

It seems that non-Catholics have the most “trouble” with Marian beliefs of all Catholic beliefs.

What do you think of the apparitions of Mary (those approved by the CC)?

I’m Catholic, and I don’t believe in them, but I’m wondering what you guys (non-Catholics) think.

Do you believe that Mary, the other Saints, or maybe angels visit people and can be seen?

I’m Catholic, & I think some of them (Knock, Fatima, Beauraing, Banneux, “Our Lady of All Nations” come to mind) are not genuine. The “apparitions” at Cairo are so indistinct they might be anything - we’re in “Mary-appeared on-my-fencepost” country with them.​

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally posted by **Righteousone **

There is a gigantic statue of Christ that oozes oil from it’s leg non stoppable. Scientists cannot figure out where it is coming from.

Which scientist? It would help if you had a credible reference.

A quick search on google shows that “no scientific study has been done on the Risen Christ statue”.

Hi

I think our frined **Charlie Zeaiter ** has a good point there. Righteousone should now come forward with the scientific proof, if he has got any, no compulsion.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

BTW, you left out the part when a man took a cloth and put it on the leg of Christ, took it off and found blood. 50 people witnessed this miracle.

I’m sure there are hundreds of miracles being claimed. It doesn’t change my search to find a credible source. (I hope he kept that cloth. It sounds like a treasure.)

… If you believe in Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe, (don’t forget Garabandal, Spain), then maybe you’ll believe Medjugorgie. Read about it first, then comment.

The Church has enough confidence in Fatima, Lourdes, and Gaudalupe to give them feast days (May 13th, Feb 11th and Dec 12th respectively).

I won’t be going to Garabandal or Medjugorje anytime soon. So, I won’t have any confidence in them until the Church has the confidence to give them a feast day.

 

[mathematician]

The thing which bothers me about weeping statues and the like is that I cannot easily imagine why God would want to lay on that kind of party trick.

 

[Righteousone]

The thing which bothers me about weeping statues and the like is that I cannot easily imagine why God would want to lay on that kind of party trick.

So now you’re accusing God of playing tricks…there have been many unexplainable statues that wept, ones that are authentic. Many Eucharistic hosts that have bled before people’s eyes. The miracle in Lanciano, Italy alone.
Most non-Catholics have a problem with this. One day when we die, God will ask you, where is your faith? I have left many signs and still you didn’t believe.

 

[Righteousone]

Remember when God told Noah to build an Ark and people laughed at him…then the floods came…

 

[Reuben_J]

The thing which bothers me about weeping statues and the like is that I cannot easily imagine why God would want to lay on that kind of party trick.

The same argument about the Trinity. If God wants it to happen that way, who are we to question him?

Muslims would say how can God has a Son when he never had a wife. And we say, why not?

There were miracles that did happen when they happened. Usually the church is very consevative in granting recognition just to make sure that they were authentic. We should be obedient to the church’s decision but in the meantime should examine any purported miracles for truth. Did they really happen and not some pranks played by naugthy individuals. What are their effects to Christians? Do they bring about goodness or increase in faith? These may bring some clues about their authenticity.

 

[CathFaith1]

She doesn’t. Google Zeitun in Egypt where the Blessed Mother appeared to all from 1968 to 1971. Muslims, Christians, Coptic Catholics, Coptic Orthodox, in fact anyone who was in Zeitun or watching it live on TV, all saw her.

Right.

Even though private revelation is not ‘binding’ and people do not need to believe them - there are some non-Catholics who claim to have been visited by Mary,

Pope Benedict XVI Angelus in January noted one apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary to one noted as an nominal jew.

May the Mother of God, whose appearance to Alphonse Ratisbonne in the Church of Sant’Andrea delle Frate in Rome we remember today, obtain from the Lord the abundance of the Holy Spirit for all disciples in such a way that we can arrive at perfect unity and in this way offer the witness of faith and life that the world urgently needs.

zenit.org/article-21546?l=english

 

[mathematician]

So now you’re accusing God of playing tricks…there have been many unexplainable statues that wept, ones that are authentic. Many Eucharistic hosts that have bled before people’s eyes. The miracle in Lanciano, Italy alone.
Most non-Catholics have a problem with this. One day when we die, God will ask you, where is your faith? I have left many signs and still you didn’t believe.

A few years ago their was a documentary on British television about a group of Catholic women who set out on a pilgrimage. Almost before they got out their front door some of them were anouncing that they wanted to see the sun dancing. So they arrived at their destination, and, sure enough, some of them started pointing at the sky saying “Look! The sun’s dancing!” If it really had been dancing I imagine that it would have made headline news around the world, as well as pushing astronomy up to the top of the list of the world’s 100 most important disciplines.

One day when we die, God will ask you, where is your faith? I have left many signs and still you didn’t believe.

Come to think of it, there is also that bit about a wicked and sinful generation seeketh after a sign.

 

[Righteousone]

A few years ago their was a documentary on British television about a group of Catholic women who set out on a pilgrimage. Almost before they got out their front door some of them were anouncing that they wanted to see the sun dancing. So they arrived at their destination, and, sure enough, some of them started pointing at the sky saying “Look! The sun’s dancing!” If it really had been dancing I imagine that it would have made headline news around the world, as well as pushing astronomy up to the top of the list of the world’s 100 most important disciplines.

Come to think of it, there is also that bit about a wicked and sinful generation seeketh after a sign.

Oh ye of little faith…The Fatima apparition which 80,000 people SAW THE SUN SPIN and the secular newspapers even printed up the story and the atheist times also reported it. Can you call 80,000 people liars?? Media will not print anything that is of faith, especially with Catholics. You need to buy a Catholic newspaper to read about these things.
Jesus leaves so many signs yet you still don’t believe…pity.

 

[mathematician]

Oh ye of little faith…The Fatima apparition which 80,000 people SAW THE SUN SPIN and the secular newspapers even printed up the story and the atheist times also reported it. Can you call 80,000 people liars?? Media will not print anything that is of faith, especially with Catholics. You need to buy a Catholic newspaper to read about these things.
Jesus leaves so many signs yet you still don’t believe…pity.

I believe in God, not dancing suns.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I believe in God, not dancing suns.

You don’t have to believe in God, and He will still exist.

You don’t have to believe in that famous “Dancing of the Sun” miracle of Fatima, Oct 13th 1917; But it still happened.

Among the 70-80,000 witnesses of the dancing sun, were the following…

• O Seculo (a pro-government, anti-clerical, Lisbon paper): It was possible to look at the sun without any discomfort. The sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements. The sun “danced”.
• O Dia (another Lisbon daily, edition of 17 October 1917): The rain stopped. The sun was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds. A cry went up from every mouth and people feel on their knees on the muddy ground. People wept and prayed with uncovered heads, in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they.

This could have been just a strange phenomenal occurance, except that the three children told us in advance that something special was going to happen on Oct 13th 1917. How did those three children know?

 

[Eschato]

I’m sure there are hundreds of miracles being claimed. It doesn’t change my search to find a credible source. (I hope he kept that cloth. It sounds like a treasure.)

The Church has enough confidence in Fatima, Lourdes, and Gaudalupe to give them feast days (May 13th, Feb 11th and Dec 12th respectively).

I won’t be going to Garabandal or Medjugorje anytime soon. So, I won’t have any confidence in them until the Church has the confidence to give them a feast day.

They are both unconfirmed apparitions. Until the events prophesied either take place or it becomes obvious that the time in which they would have taken place has passed, the Church can’t fully acknowledge either one. Though, neither has been condemned either… Medjugorje has been active for 20 plus years, and the other that you mentioned (which I guess that you can only mention if you are as skeptical and as sure of yourself as Mr. Keating) occurred 40 years ago. I think that if something were theologically wrong or that one of the apparitions held an untruth that it would have been condemned by now. All that the Church can do now is play the waiting game to see if prophesied events come to a close. I’ve read about both of those alleged apparitions, especially “G.” I would cite information on it, but in the past, simply mentioning the name of the apparition on question has riled up moderators who apparently believe that the apparition is condemned and won’t let anyone talk about it. I assure you that, as of this morning, it is not.

ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM

 

[LilyM]

Furthermore, Mr. Zeiter, I have visited Medjugorgie and there really is something happening there. One must visit to comment on this miraculous place.

I have also visited Medjugorje, righteousone - and seen and felt, yes, great faith, which is to be commended and encouraged at all times as long as it is a correct faith.

But great faith is no barometer of whether or not Our Lady is genuinely appearing there - I also saw and felt it while talking to a large group of devout Catholics at a recent Right to Life Association dinner that I attended - and Mary certainly wasn’t appearing there.

Furthermore, I find some of the pronouncements from the ‘visionaries’ of Medjugorje extremely disturbing, such as their assertion that Paul VI was replaced by an impostor

And the behaviour particularly of the Medjugorje ‘visionary’ Ivan who tours the world making money by asserting that Mary appears to him every day no matter where he is. Could you imagine St Margaret Mary, St Bernadette, St Faustina or Blessed Sr Lucia of Fatima even contemplating being involved in such sordid activities? :bigyikes:

Overall, we’d all be well advised to take Medj with a grain of salt.

 

[Eschato]

A few years ago their was a documentary on British television about a group of Catholic women who set out on a pilgrimage. Almost before they got out their front door some of them were anouncing that they wanted to see the sun dancing. So they arrived at their destination, and, sure enough, some of them started pointing at the sky saying “Look! The sun’s dancing!” If it really had been dancing I imagine that it would have made headline news around the world, as well as pushing astronomy up to the top of the list of the world’s 100 most important disciplines.

Come to think of it, there is also that bit about a wicked and sinful generation seeketh after a sign.

If you want to see some strange astronomical happenings, go to you-tube and search Medjugorje. Quite interesting stuff. People claim (even with the apparitions!!!) that the sun is actually a UFO. That the hole in the sun is in the camera, and so forth.

There is that bit about a generation seeking a sign. I don’t find that to be pertinent here, though. People wanted a sign that they might either believe or disprove others beliefs. They had there sign, the kingdom of heaven was walking amongst them and they failed to believe in Him. That generation had it’s sign, and this generation has it’s sign too.

I already believe, and therefore I see the signs. I know that every breath that I take was provided by God. I know that the image of a dancing sun in a far off sky didn’t just happen, and I don’t try to wipe God’s fingerprints off of his works.

What sign do you seek?

 

[Righteousone]

I have also visited Medjugorje, righteousone - and seen and felt, yes, great faith, which is to be commended and encouraged at all times as long as it is a correct faith.

But great faith is no barometer of whether or not Our Lady is genuinely appearing there - I also saw and felt it while talking to a large group of devout Catholics at a recent Right to Life Association dinner that I attended - and Mary certainly wasn’t appearing there.

Furthermore, I find some of the pronouncements from the ‘visionaries’ of Medjugorje extremely disturbing, such as their assertion that Paul VI was replaced by an impostor

And the behaviour particularly of the Medjugorje ‘visionary’ Ivan who tours the world making money by asserting that Mary appears to him every day no matter where he is. Could you imagine St Margaret Mary, St Bernadette, St Faustina or Blessed Sr Lucia of Fatima even contemplating being involved in such sordid activities? :bigyikes:

Overall, we’d all be well advised to take Medj with a grain of salt.

How do you know Ivan does not see the Blessed Mother? Do you know for sure Ms. Lily? I have seen Ivan twice at two different churches, and I believed him because I smelled roses very strong.
Two other people claimed they also smelled them at this church. When she appears to him, no matter what he is doing, he needs to get up and kneel. It was very sudden and everything pointed that she was in the room.
For you to even say that the millions of converts who go there and become Catholics is not a miracle in itself, then whatever. I didn’t believe it either until I went there in October. There really is something happening there.