Apparitions of Mary

[elt1956]

On the contrary, I’ve read many accounts of people regenerating body parts, gaining back their sight, and other such things. If you actually looked into these sights at all, you would have heard of such things too. You allege that miracles don’t occur, but your only evidence comes from closing your ears to acts.

Dear Eschato. Name a few so I can look them up. Peace.

 

[Brian_Reeves]

That is happenining right now? Not that I don’t want it to happen, but please give evidence. Thanks. Peace.

“but please give evidence”, No, no, no, Elt I don’t think God will ever do that since He is asking for our FAITH, through Jesus
Christ, and faith does not contain “evidence”. as I have said. Try deeply praying into it whilst, if you can, reading some of the material. Jesus will soon tell you if it is of His Father or not. That’s what I am sure He has done with me. I could send you a few pages if you email me. What are your favourite passages ? Brian (Reeves)

 

[1234]

Ridiculous. The evidence presented about Fatima would probabaly be enough to convince a lot of judicial courts (at least on a civil balance-of-probabilities basis if not a criminal beyond-reasonable-doubt basis). Why should that not be good enough for you? At least good enough for you to accept that it amounts to serious if not airtight evidence and not mere humbug, myth or rumour?

Someone alleged miraculous restoration of sight and regeneration of body parts, These ‘miracles’ were what I was addressing.

The Miraculous Person announce to his/her visionaries that (s)he will perform miracles and that they should invite the press. The visionaries should then be instructed to invite some amputees to the next vision, when the miracles would take place. The current Iraq war can supply quite a few amputees. The Miraculous Person could then regenerate their limbs miraculously. The press and innumerable cell phones would be there to document the miracles. THEN you’d have a miracle.

I predict many fewer ‘miracles’ in the future.

 

[Righteousone]

Someone alleged miraculous restoration of sight and regeneration of body parts, These ‘miracles’ were what I was addressing.

The Miraculous Person announce to his/her visionaries that (s)he will perform miracles and that they should invite the press. The visionaries should then be instructed to invite some amputees to the next vision, when the miracles would take place. The current Iraq war can supply quite a few amputees. The Miraculous Person could then regenerate their limbs miraculously. The press and innumerable cell phones would be there to document the miracles. THEN you’d have a miracle.

I predict many fewer ‘miracles’ in the future.

What about the miracle attributed to the saint Padre Pio for miraculously healing a child with one bladder that was totally diseased, when the doctors removed it, they found a second one which was unbelievable, since we only carry one. She was then ‘miraculously’ healed with a BRAND NEW ORGAN. She is an adult now, alive and doing fantastic… Thanks be to God.

 

[elt1956]

“but please give evidence”, No, no, no, Elt I don’t think God will ever do that since He is asking for our FAITH, through Jesus
Christ, and faith does not contain “evidence”. as I have said. Try deeply praying into it whilst, if you can, reading some of the material. Jesus will soon tell you if it is of His Father or not. That’s what I am sure He has done with me. I could send you a few pages if you email me. What are your favourite passages ? Brian (Reeves)

Hello Brian, It isn’t that I don’t believe God works in wonderous ways, it is just that some things are posted as having happened, ie. Muslims “all over” the world are converting to Christianity, or some such statement. Read the whole thread and then write to me again, okay? Peace.

 

[1234]

What about the miracle attributed to the saint Padre Pio for miraculously healing a child with one bladder that was totally diseased, when the doctors removed it, they found a second one which was unbelievable, since we only carry one. She was then ‘miraculously’ healed with a BRAND NEW ORGAN. She is an adult now, alive and doing fantastic… Thanks be to God.

Google the phrase, ‘duplication of the urinary bladder’ without the quotes.

Many case reports of duplication of the urinary bladder and other parts of the GU system. As is often in cases of this kind, the main function part is chronically infected.

 

[SIA]

It seems that non-Catholics have the most “trouble” with Marian beliefs of all Catholic beliefs.

What do you think of the apparitions of Mary (those approved by the CC)?

I’m Catholic, and I don’t believe in them, but I’m wondering what you guys (non-Catholics) think.

Do you believe that Mary, the other Saints, or maybe angels visit people and can be seen?

I believe that the apparitions are an implied clever way to attempt to further the marian beliefs amongst Catholics and potential Catholics. It is an avenue to build and support those beliefs which depend soley upon the magisterium otherwise. Do I believe in these apparitions? Absolutely not. Do I believe that Mary is in Heaven with the saints? Absolutely.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Someone alleged miraculous restoration of sight and regeneration of body parts, These ‘miracles’ were what I was addressing.

The Miraculous Person announce to his/her visionaries that (s)he will perform miracles and that they should invite the press. The visionaries should then be instructed to invite some amputees to the next vision, when the miracles would take place. The current Iraq war can supply quite a few amputees. The Miraculous Person could then regenerate their limbs miraculously. The press and innumerable cell phones would be there to document the miracles. THEN you’d have a miracle.

I predict many fewer ‘miracles’ in the future.

Take the other side for a second. Assume, for the sake of argument, that God is real and that He occasionally performs miracles of healing, along the lines of the reputed miracles. What would motivate Him to do so?

Now, if an entity existed who was so motivated, why would this entity perform miracles under the conditions you describe? It seems to me that the only motivation for fulfilling your conditions would be “to provide undeniable proof of the existence of supernatural healing,” which does not seem to be the motivation of the hypothetical entity assumed above.

Peace.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

I believe that the apparitions are an implied clever way to attempt to further the marian beliefs amongst Catholics and potential Catholics. It is an avenue to build and support those beliefs which depend soley upon the magisterium otherwise. Do I believe in these apparitions? Absolutely not. Do I believe that Mary is in Heaven with the saints? Absolutely.

I haven’t come to any firm conclusion on the apparitions, but I’m inclined towards belief. What do you think happened at Fatima?

God bless!

 

[elt1956]

Someone alleged miraculous restoration of sight and regeneration of body parts, These ‘miracles’ were what I was addressing.

The Miraculous Person announce to his/her visionaries that (s)he will perform miracles and that they should invite the press. The visionaries should then be instructed to invite some amputees to the next vision, when the miracles would take place. The current Iraq war can supply quite a few amputees. The Miraculous Person could then regenerate their limbs miraculously. The press and innumerable cell phones would be there to document the miracles. THEN you’d have a miracle.

I predict many fewer ‘miracles’ in the future.

Hello. Not exactly upholding Medjegordje as being a place of miracles, but I know personally that even non-Catholics have gone there and come back either changed, or with different ideas about the Virgin Mary. I have a close friend who is Lutheran who went to Medjegordje and came back with a handful of rosaries and medals. She is now trying to learn to say the rosary. I would say that perhaps, just perhaps, Mary is calling everyone to sit up and listen. Peace.

 

[peary]

Hello. Not exactly upholding Medjegordje as being a place of miracles, but I know personally that even non-Catholics have gone there and come back either changed, or with different ideas about the Virgin Mary. I have a close friend who is Lutheran who went to Medjegordje and came back with a handful of rosaries and medals. She is now trying to learn to say the rosary. I would say that perhaps, just perhaps, Mary is calling everyone to sit up and listen. Peace.

One should return with a greater appreciation of Christ and his/her gift of salvation, actually.

 

[elt1956]

One should return with a greater appreciation of Christ and his/her gift of salvation, actually.

I’m just happy that she is beginning to know Mary. A first step for her. I have to admire her reaching out. Peace

 

[Brian_Reeves]

Oh yes lets stop all this intellectual dissection and look at the evidence. Thousands of people go there and are radically changed, I for one. It has transformerd my life. It was a very painful operation but then growth usually is. Now if Medjugorje is of Satan, he does NOT draw us mere mortals to Jesus but propels us in the opposite direction. Oh yes there is a lot of “trivia” being claimed such as spinning suns and gold roaries but the key is does it move ones soul towards Jesus/God, and this is certainly also happening there in various, often quiet, ways. Sadly, like so many of these sites, Medjugorje is being overwhelmed with “tourists” rather than Pilgrims. When I first went there one was woken by the joyful sound of cocks crowing, now it is to the sound of guard dogs !!! It was very sad to note that at the time of Our Lady’s visitation little happens in the town, such as the church bells ringing, etc. What better witness than a lot of the pilgrims standing in silence for a while just where thery are. But, and this I found so wonderful, if you go to the end large tree in front of the church at the oppropriate time then the whole tree literally errupts with the song of thousands upon thousand of sparrows welcoming Our Lady to this God forsaken world. As we stood under the tree I wept for the joy of God working through His creation !!! Brian

 

[peary]

Oh yes lets stop all this intellectual dissection and look at the evidence. Thousands of people go there and are radically changed, I for one. It has transformerd my life. It was a very painful operation but then growth usually is. Now if Medjugorje is of Satan, he does NOT draw us mere mortals to Jesus but propels us in the opposite direction. Oh yes there is a lot of “trivia” being claimed such as spinning suns and gold roaries but the key is does it move ones soul towards Jesus/God, and this is certainly also happening there in various, often quiet, ways. Sadly, like so many of these sites, Medjugorje is being overwhelmed with “tourists” rather than Pilgrims. When I first went there one was woken by the joyful sound of cocks crowing, now it is to the sound of guard dogs !!! It was very sad to note that at the time of Our Lady’s visitation little happens in the town, such as the church bells ringing, etc. What better witness than a lot of the pilgrims standing in silence for a while just where thery are. But, and this I found so wonderful, if you go to the end large tree in front of the church at the oppropriate time then the whole tree literally errupts with the song of thousands upon thousand of sparrows welcoming Our Lady to this God forsaken world. As we stood under the tree I wept for the joy of God working through His creation !!! Brian

Brian -
You have to be very careful with these events. The same thing happened at Palmar de Troya in Spain. Thousands went there and were changed. There were Masses said, the Rosary, litanies, there were healings; confessions, adoration; many were brought back (for awhile) to the Church. Satan couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with what was occuring there. What happened was that the seer proclaimed himself pope and excommunicated all of those who would not accept him. Many pulled away, but thousands still - to this day - maintain that the events were true. Satan did what he wanted to do all along - he created a rupture in the Body of Christ among the faithful and confused everyone.

 

[Eschato]

Dear Eschato. Name a few so I can look them up. Peace.

Oddly enough, there is an encyclical called “Garabandal” that is sent out 6 times a year. The publisher sent my Grandmother a free trial type thing. It is basically just different accounts of happenings, healings, and other things that have happened. I don’t believe that she subscribed to it, because I kind of talked her out of it. It did have some interesting stories. One was of an African single mother who had to have her kneecap surgically removed after falling down a set of stairs. Long story short, she spontaneously grew a knee cap in a certain small village in northern Spain. I would imagine that you could find even more things if you just go to Fatima websites or what have you.

 

[Eschato]

Someone alleged miraculous restoration of sight and regeneration of body parts, These ‘miracles’ were what I was addressing.

The Miraculous Person announce to his/her visionaries that (s)he will perform miracles and that they should invite the press. The visionaries should then be instructed to invite some amputees to the next vision, when the miracles would take place. The current Iraq war can supply quite a few amputees. The Miraculous Person could then regenerate their limbs miraculously. The press and innumerable cell phones would be there to document the miracles. THEN you’d have a miracle.

I predict many fewer ‘miracles’ in the future.

Yes, and then you could find out if God exists. You would have in in the same room as the international media, modern medicine, and science, and you could decide which one you wanted to believe in.

I’ve had miracles happen in my life, but I didn’t run to Dan Rathers, I went to Church.

 

[Brian_Reeves]

Brian -
You have to be very careful with these events. The same thing happened at Palmar de Troya in Spain. Thousands went there and were changed. There were Masses said, the Rosary, litanies, there were healings; confessions, adoration; many were brought back (for awhile) to the Church. Satan couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with what was occuring there. What happened was that the seer proclaimed himself pope and excommunicated all of those who would not accept him. Many pulled away, but thousands still - to this day - maintain that the events were true. Satan did what he wanted to do all along - he created a rupture in the Body of Christ among the faithful and confused everyone.

Yes, but wasn’t the main problem that the seer proclaimed himself pope, and indeed was allowed to do that. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” !!! Thank goodness there are six seers in Medjugorje and a very strong Fransiscan oversight. But even so, as you have pointed out, Satan can get in even when the initial event is of the Lord, as it looks to have been in both happenings. However constant discernment is required which is why I feel that the church should be in there at the beginning rather than waiting for events to unfold over a long period of time. Brian.

 

[peary]

Satan can get in even when the initial event is of the Lord, as it looks to have been in both happenings. However constant discernment is required which is why I feel that the church should be in there at the beginning rather than waiting for events to unfold over a long period of time. Brian.

I agree. But, I would disagree that the ‘initial event’ was of the Lord, particularly in the case of Palmar de Troya. You are giving Satan too much ‘power’ over God. The end fruit was confusion, bad feelings, loss of faith for many, and bad feelings. There does seem to be more spiritual fruit coming out of Medjugorje rather than the negative. Only time will tell.

 

[Alexius]

Many Orthodox Christians have had apparitions of the Theotokos. I am often skeptical of many of the apparitions. It does not seem that the Mary appearing to these people is the same Mary in the New Testament. She commands honor and churches built in her name–that doesn’t seem like the Mary I am familiar with–the Mary who was in total submission to GOD and sought no honor for herself. Just like in the ancient icons, the Blessed Theotokos is shown as directing attention to Christ with her hand. Of course, I may sound like a fundamentalist, but I assure you I am not…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[sapamarogi]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.

There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.

We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.

Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.