Appeal to apologists

[Phaedrus]

Ben, you surpass me. There is much wisdom in your post, and I can only pray that I will one day be as surrendered to the Holy Spirit as you are. I think there is much that you could teach us, and, if it is God’s will, I hope you can stick around a while and serve as our example.
I’ll pray for you, and I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. I may not be suited for this apologetics stuff.
By the way, whenever I see your name, I mentally pronounce it “bendy”, and it reminds me of how “flexible” you are in your approace to apologetics.

Under the Mercy,
Phaedrus

 

[amgid]

ben_dy:

Thank you again - and PLEASE don’t go away!

I am not going anywhere. Even if I don’t post very often, you can always get in touch by email or private message.

amgid

 

[Joysong]

Good job, Brad,

Your article was excellent and I saved it in a personal folder for reference. My only wish would be to see that it is posted in other sections of CA. Some just confined their interests to areas of their own particular attraction and do not venture elsewhere to read, and may miss seeing it.

May I also say that being human we unfortunately forget what we have learned when the battle is nigh.

You will smile, but I do not know what LDS means. You lost me.

Carole

 

[Brad_Haas]

Carole,

Thanks for your comments. I’m actually one of the people who limits his activity to a certain forum. I was active in the LDS sub-forum of the Non-Catholic Religions forum, but then they integrated the sub-forums again, so here I am.

The reason I posted it in this forum only is that I’ve observed the problems with participants in this forum. I suspect it goes on in any apologetics forum, but I don’t know for sure because I’m only active in this one. If you want to post it anywhere else in the CA forums or on the Web, feel free.

And I did smile. LDS stands for Latter-day Saint, the official name of the group more commonly knowns as Mormons. My website is focused mainly on them.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[ben_dy]

Brad Haas:

And I did smile. LDS stands for Latter-day Saint, the official name of the group more commonly knowns as Mormons. My website is focused mainly on them.

Thanks again for your post.

Brad,

One-handed typing but I’m out of here as soon as all the forms are completed Saturday morning!

The “LDS” question & answer made me recall one of my favorite shops in London - “The Postcard Shop” (no longer in business) which was a two-story gallery of every type of postcard that one could imagine. I’m certain that I spent well over £1,000 there over a three-year period.

One of my favorites is a sort of 1940’s hand-tinted ‘two ladies in the kitchen’ photo in which one is holding a baking pan of cookies and the other has her hand to her forehead looking visibly distraught. The ‘cookie mum’ is saying to the dramatically distraught woman, “No, no, Shirley! It’s LDS not LSD!!”

Perhaps it’s something which you must see in order to get a giggle!

I was taught that ‘Mormon’ was a pejorative term used to describe the LDS church or members of same and I’m certain that this was taught to me at least in the early 1950’s when my family was invited to dinner at his LDS secretary’s home. I distinctly recall my Dad reiterating on the drive not to use the word ‘Mormon’, not to expect - and therefore not to ask for - iced tea or sodas, etc., and, even as important as making certain that the word ‘Mormon’ not escape our lips, to leave any discussion of religion to the adults (I was, at this time, likely 15 years-of-age - home for the summer and the oldest child making the trip).

And so I’ve avoided using the word Mormon most of my life - I’ve used it more in written messages here, I know, than I’ve ever spoken it aloud and even when in conversation with LDS friends (and missionaries!) I still shy away from using the term even though they may be bandying it about. Some habits die hard!

But there is still something within me that makes me hesitate to use the ‘M’ word (maybe the thought of - literally - having my mouth washed out with Ivory Soap in the 1940’s when, hearing a term for the first time that was popular in the south to describe Blacks, I came home from school and asked my Mom what the word really meant and why it wasn’t part of our California vocabulary).

But now it seems - and I’ll address this as a question to our LDS brothers and sisters - that ‘Mormon’ no longer carries the pejorative weight that it did five decades ago? And a further question - by what term do you really, honestly wished yo be called (casually, I mean - not ’ a member of the CoJCoLDS’!)? I know, for example, that I don’t care for the term ‘papist’ in referring to my religion because it has negative meaning, yet Roman Catholic, or Catholic of the Western Rite, seem to ‘formal’ somehow so I usually just answer the question of religious affiliation (when home in the south) with ‘Catholic’?

If you are LDS, do you have a ‘shorthand’ preference of LDS over Mormon or vice-versa?

And, please, whatever anyone thinks, do not believe that you will instantly become LDS by taking LSD - there are some major differences from what I’ve heard!

 

[Brad_Haas]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your new comment, and I’m glad to hear you’ll be out soon.

I’m not an LDS, but I do see “Mormon” as having become very widely accepted among LDS members - not as a replacement for the official name, but not a pejorative term either. I mean, Bruce McConkie wrote the book called Mormon Doctrine, for example. I think it’s the same kind of thing when the pagans sneered at early disciples of some Nazarean by calling them “Christians.”

BTW, I won’t take offense if someone says “Roman Catholic,” “RCC,” etc., but I much prefer just plain “Catholic.” Here’s some background on the “Roman” part.

 

[amgid]

ben_dy:

I was taught that ‘Mormon’ was a pejorative term used to describe the LDS church or members of same . . .

But now it seems - and I’ll address this as a question to our LDS brothers and sisters - that ‘Mormon’ no longer carries the pejorative weight that it did five decades ago? And a further question - by what term do you really, honestly wished yo be called (casually, I mean - not ’ a member of the CoJCoLDS’!)? . . .

If you are LDS, do you have a ‘shorthand’ preference of LDS over Mormon or vice-versa?

The answer to you question varies slightly depending on who you are actually addressing, the Church itself (the institution), or one (or more) of its members.

The official name of the Church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”; and that is the title that we are encouraged to use when referring to the Church in a formal setting. That, however, is a bit of a mouthful to express in an informal discussion such as on this board, therefore I tend to condense it to the “LDS Church”.

The term “Mormon” is not exactly a pejorative term, and I am not aware that it has ever been considered such. It is a nickname given to us by those not of our faith, because of our belief in the Book of Mormon; and it is not such an inappropriate nickname. I for one have no worries about being called “a Mormon,” and if somebody asked me “What is your religion?” I have no fears of replying to them that “I am a Mormon”. That is a short sweet answer that everyone understands, rather than its convoluted alternative. As Hass pointed out, the word “Christian” was also originally a nickname given to the Disciples of Christ in the earliest days of the movement, by those who were not of the faith (Acts 11:26).

I am, however, hesitant to refer to the Church itself (the institution) as the “Mormon Church”. That would seem to suggest that the Church was somehow belongs to or was founded by Mormon, which of course is not correct. I would either shorten it to “LDS Church,” or if necessary, use the full title.

And, please, whatever anyone thinks, do not believe that you will instantly become LDS by taking LSD - there are some major differences from what I’ve heard!

Certainly not! Becoming a Mormon is a serious business, and not everyone is worthy of the privilege. As the Lord said: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44).

amgid

 

[ben_dy]

amgid:

The answer to you question varies slightly depending on who you are actually addressing, the Church itself (the institution), or one (or more) of its members.

The official name of the Church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”; and that is the title that we are encouraged to use when referring to the Church in a formal setting. That, however, is a bit of a mouthful to express in an informal discussion such as on this board, therefore I tend to condense it to the “LDS Church”.

The term “Mormon” is not exactly a pejorative term, and I am not aware that it has ever been considered such. It is a nickname given to us by those not of our faith, because of our belief in the Book of Mormon; and it is not such an inappropriate nickname. I for one have no worries about being called “a Mormon,” and if somebody asked me “What is your religion?” I have no fears of replying to them that “I am a Mormon”. That is a short sweet answer that everyone understands, rather than its convoluted alternative. As Hass pointed out, the word “Christian” was also originally a nickname given to the Disciples of Christ in the earliest days of the movement, by those who were not of the faith (Acts 11:26).

I am, however, hesitant to refer to the Church itself (the institution) as the “Mormon Church”. That would seem to suggest that the Church was somehow belongs to or was founded by Mormon, which of course is not correct. I would either shorten it to “LDS Church,” or if necessary, use the full title.

Certainly not! Becoming a Mormon is a serious business, and not everyone is worthy of the privilege. As the Lord said: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44).

amgid

amgid,

Thanks for the reply - it really is a help to know that I have, for the most part, been using the term Mormon and LDS correctly: I generally ALWAYS refer to the CHURCH as the “LDS church” and, after being here for a month or so, did begin calling members of the Church “Mormons”.

I’m usually not terribly sensitive about being ‘politically correct’ but, in the 1940’s & '50’s when my Dad told me ‘Mormon’ was a a derogatory term - and, as a Catholic in Alabama being a quite accustomed to having derogatory terms hurled at my family and friends - I suppose this is an area where I might be more sensitive than others (I was not yet a teen when told that one of the “K”'s in KKK stood for “Katholic”, one of the three groups which that very active group misspelled to specify the targets of hatred).

So you can see why I’ve shied away from using the term. There were also those children at that time who, of course, called LDS members ‘Morons’… just because it sounded funny to them as these were kids who would NOT have known a thing about Moroni (and who would have taunted the poor LDS kids to DEATH if they’d known about the father of Coriantor!).

I hated those kids. It took a long time for me to love them. But I hated the way those kids taunted those of other religions when I was a kid. I was so glad to get out of this state to minor seminary! Thats one reason, now, I believe, that I feel a kinship with LDS folks - not because we both claim to be the one true Church of Christ, but because we both fall into those categories of people whom it’s “O.K.” to stand against. I feel the same about those who are Islamic (but that’s certainly off-topic in THIS thread and, since the ‘merger’ of the “Non-Catholic Religion” boards I’ve actually read some of the posts concerning Islam I’m afraid that I could become prone to answer ignorance with anger…

I notice that someone here - former LDS? - always uses the term CoJCoLDS and that sounds quite acceptable: I’ve used it a few times but I actually have to slow down and ‘think it out’ as I type it so I think I will continue with LDS Church!

Glad that you’re sticking around - hope that I will, as well!