Applause after homily

[jimrob]

We have six Masses over the weekend. One of them has traditional music and once a month is sung in Latin (OF) and you’d expect the congregation to be a fairly conservative bunch. However, that is the Mass where they sometimes applaud the homily, sometimes the notices and occasionally the voluntary.

How we pray is a personal matter. If people want to pray by clapping in church, it’s not my business to tell them to stop. Mind you, a generous dusting of French chalk on the Mass sheets should make them think twice

 

[paperwight66]

It’s a cultural thing. In some parts of the world, the congregation clap and cheer all the way through Mass. .

Jimrob, you seem to have missed my questions in post 33, relating to this assertion.

Could you answer them, please? It’s usual on here to back up assertions with evidence.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Really I find this whole topic sort of counter productive. First of all at my Parish on Christmas eve vigil the Homily was so beautiful, the priest spoke of joy and read Silent Night and the whole Church started to sing and then the Piano started to play, It was just breath taking and yes every applauded. He was not searching for applause but the moment just caused it to naturally occur. I have no problem after the Homily but If someone was acting up or distracting during well yes then I might have a issue. I think when we look into every detail of everything we can find faults many things that happen during service. I stick to the fact of the the readings, Sacraments and order are the most important and the Homily does its best to tie the readings together into our daily life. Enjoy the Mass and take home the Message and be Blessed. Just my two cents.

It is a serious problem to me, which is why I posted it. The personality of this priest is dominating the Mass, and the applause goes along with it. He does not mind the applause and I believe he enjoys it. He has never told people not to applaud. The homilies that are applauded are not even that outstanding. It is just the people doing what happens after public entertainment, do you understand that? The Mass is not an entertainment! It is holy and we are to be reverent. I ask you, does applause go along with reverence? And I submit to you that it most certainly DOES NOT.

The music ministers perform to the glory of God. The priest stands in for God. They do not do this for the glorification of themselves. If they do, they have failed. Accepting applause is for one’s own glorification.

We have decided not to attend that parish any longer. After the Christmas Eve Mass, we had had enough of the performance aspects and the extremely casual attitude of the congregation (people drinking from Starbucks cups during Mass! In the FRONT pews!). Most people didn’t even bother to dress up at all. Things have gone so far downhill over the last 10 years or so that it’s not even worth addressing - and I know that members of the Parish Council have spoken to Father about the length of Masses and have been told in no uncertain terms to “deal with it, because I’m not going to shorten it.”

 

[CaptCrunch73]

Really I find this whole topic sort of counter productive. First of all at my Parish on Christmas eve vigil the Homily was so beautiful, the priest spoke of joy and read Silent Night and the whole Church started to sing and then the Piano started to play, It was just breath taking and yes every applauded. He was not searching for applause but the moment just caused it to naturally occur. I have no problem after the Homily but If someone was acting up or distracting during well yes then I might have a issue. I think when we look into every detail of everything we can find faults many things that happen during service. I stick to the fact of the the readings, Sacraments and order are the most important and the Homily does its best to tie the readings together into our daily life. Enjoy the Mass and take home the Message and be Blessed. Just my two cents.

To each his own but I have to disagree with you here. When me and my family go to Mass we go to worship God. This type of service described by the OP also occurred at my Parish and me and my family have decided to switch parishes.

If I want to attend the type of service where there’s clapping for everything and the priest wanders off the alter to shake hands with everyone in the first row, which occurs routinely at my former parish, I’d just return to the Evangelical service that I used to attend in the local high school auditorium, clap, dance, have plays, whatever. That’s not intended as an insult just an observation. If that’s your thing go for it but don’t disrespect and destroy the Catholic Mass.

It’s these incidents that cause me to be an advocate of the EF form of the Mass. The EF Mass is reverent, it’s respectful, that’s what I think Mass deserves. Where in the presence of God.

:twocents:

 

[figs]

I’m just not into the applause thing in Mass. If I am ever present when it occurs, I don’t participate and ignore the applause.

Fortunately it only seems to happen in the Sunday evening Mass which I attend as rarely as possible.

 

[odile53]

Well, it seems you’ve already done what I would have done: Voted with my feet. It seems you aren’t encountering an isolated event or two where applause spontaneously broke out, but a parish where the pastor has evidently encouraged, even inadvertently, a “cult of personality.” And now that he’s experienced some sugarplums from the audience–er, I mean, congregation, he likes them so well that he plays to that! His response to the parish council’s concerns about the protracted homilies was particularly telling.

Naturally, cults of personality do develop in many parishes centering around the priest’s public persona, but it’s my opinion that a priest really needs to make an effort to keep a lid on it. Noticing it when the priest has gotten himself a little sidetracked because of it is a disconcerting experience, as the gestalt of the parish seems to take on a life of its own. I’m happy that my diocese does rotate priests about every six years or so through the parishes, I had always wondered why the diocese does that, and this would be one very good reason to do so. Of course, this policy doesn’t apply to parishes that are the ministry of a religious congregation of priests, but they seem to do a little better since they have a house superior who can usually keep things at least down to a dull roar.

I recall sitting through an unusually long homily where Father held forth at great length about his early priesthood, and as much as I tried, I couldn’t see the link between that and the Gospel he had just proclaimed. Some of the hackneyed attempts at humor reminded me a little of a lounge act. When the entire thing was over I must confess that I was sorely tempted to applaud out of sheer relief that we could finally get back to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but refrained from doing so out of a sense of middle-aged decorum and reverence. On the other hand, the deacon who occasionally delivers the homily is downright gifted in doing so: His homilies are the sort that make you want to grab your missalette and reread the text of the Gospel, and take some surreptitious notes! Personal opinion–it’s a shame he’s a permanent deacon, he would have made a great priest, but I’m happy to see that the office of deacon has assumed such prominence in my diocese. But I digress.

Best wishes for finding a parish a little more in line with emphasizing the primacy of Christ.

 

[promethius]

It is a serious problem to me, which is why I posted it. The personality of this priest is dominating the Mass, and the applause goes along with it. He does not mind the applause and I believe he enjoys it. He has never told people not to applaud. The homilies that are applauded are not even that outstanding. It is just the people doing what happens after public entertainment, do you understand that? The Mass is not an entertainment! It is holy and we are to be reverent. I ask you, does applause go along with reverence? And I submit to you that it most certainly DOES NOT.

The music ministers perform to the glory of God. The priest stands in for God. They do not do this for the glorification of themselves. If they do, they have failed. Accepting applause is for one’s own glorification.

Actually, applause was commonplace, especially in the eastern rites during the mass in antiquity. It was only supressed in the 8th century. (Source: Eusebius “Church History”).

Granted, applause doesn’t mean quite the same thing it did in the 3-7th century, but at the same time, it’s not the crash and burn end of the liturgy…

We have decided not to attend that parish any longer. After the Christmas Eve Mass, we had had enough of the performance aspects and the extremely casual attitude of the congregation (people drinking from Starbucks cups during Mass! In the FRONT pews!). Most people didn’t even bother to dress up at all. Things have gone so far downhill over the last 10 years or so that it’s not even worth addressing - and I know that members of the Parish Council have spoken to Father about the length of Masses and have been told in no uncertain terms to “deal with it, because I’m not going to shorten it.”

First you tell us that it’s critical that the liturgy be respected… and then you tell us that it’s not even worth addressing… I think you should stay and address these issues rather than losing faith in God’s ability to preserve His own dignity. Rather, by abandoning this church, you’re removing a tool from God’s toolbox to deal with the issues that this parish has.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’m not going to fight this battle. I wouldn’t win it. I will wait until the inevitable, when the priest is moved, and then perhaps return to see if the atmosphere has improved. If you want to fight the battle, I"ll give you the address of the church if you PM me.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Actually, applause was commonplace, especially in the eastern rites during the mass in antiquity. It was only supressed in the 8th century. (Source: Eusebius “Church History”). Granted, applause doesn’t mean quite the same thing it did in the 3-7th century, but at the same time, it’s not the crash and burn end of the liturgy…

Yes, and Eusebius tells us this was first popularly encouraged by Paul of Samosata, a deposed bishop of Antioch who was also known to have taken money for his religious services, among other things. It was his vainglory that led to his expulsion.

Isn’t this among the main reasons why applause should be frowned upon?

Pope Benedict XVI most recently summed it up best:

Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

 

[promethius]

I’m not going to fight this battle. I wouldn’t win it. I will wait until the inevitable, when the priest is moved, and then perhaps return to see if the atmosphere has improved. If you want to fight the battle, I"ll give you the address of the church if you PM me.

Unfortunately can’t. I’m mandated by law to be at work every single day. Going AWOL isn’t allowed in Catholic moral teaching

Yes, and Eusebius tells us this was first popularly encouraged by Paul of Samosata, a deposed bishop of Antioch who was also known to have taken money for his religious services, among other things. It was his vainglory that led to his expulsion.

Isn’t this among the main reasons why applause should be frowned upon?

I’m not one for ad hominems on practices, and I think the point remains that, regardless of who “first” popularly encouraged the practice, large portions of the eastern and even latin rite(s) used applause in mass for three centuries… far longer than one deposed bishop’s influence could exert.

Furthermore, as I said, applause means something different today than it did back then. Applause began as a means of showing support or affirming one’s agreement with a particular position. In fact, the military still uses this at formal events by tapping spoons on the table when agreeing with a speaker. By contrast, today applause generally means “congratulations, you’re super duper nice awesome”, which is… well… less appropriate for the mass.

The point I was making, however, was not that applause is good for the mass. On that point, I think that we should NOT be applauding at mass. What I was trying to get at was that applause during mass has been popular and widespread before, that it didn’t somehow magically destroy reverence for all time, and that the church survives. The way some people react to something as simple as these situations makes me wonder if they think God is so frail that a person smacking their palms together will collapse His church.

Pope Benedict XVI most recently summed it up best:

Pope Benedict has never said any such thing. Cardinal Ratzinger did. The reason the Pope chooses a new name dates back to Pope Peter, who was given a new name along with his new authority. Pope Benedict XVI has never given any statement reaffirming his previous position, restating it, even putting his name to it as bishop of Rome.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Furthermore, as I said, applause means something different today than it did back then. Applause began as a means of showing support or affirming one’s agreement with a particular position.

Agreed, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Not trying to be difficult, but some of us Eastern Christians in modern times do not see applause as part of our liturgical tradition, irrespective of the fact that this might have been commonplace in antiquity and had arose in the East. We do appreciate what you were trying to say, however.

Pope Benedict has never said any such thing. Cardinal Ratzinger did. The reason the Pope chooses a new name dates back to Pope Peter, who was given a new name along with his new authority. Pope Benedict XVI has never given any statement reaffirming his previous position, restating it, even putting his name to it as bishop of Rome.

So that means he never said it? Or it doesn’t count because he wasn’t yet Pope?

How about this one, from a canonized Pontiff (Pope St. Pius X):

It is not fitting that the servant should be applauded in His Master’s house.

Do forgive, Promethius - we do not intend to steal the fire and give it back to Zeus …

Peace!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I would recommend going to a different parish. If he gives long sermons and people still applaud, he must be helping a lot of people. Why spoil something that’s obviously helping a lot of people.

 

[promethius]

Agreed, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Not trying to be difficult, but some of us Eastern Christians in modern times do not see applause as part of our liturgical tradition, irrespective of the fact that this might have been commonplace in antiquity and had arose in the East. We do appreciate what you were trying to say, however.

Thanks! I’m glad you catch my drift!

So that means he never said it? Or it doesn’t count because he wasn’t yet Pope?

Meh, everyone quotes this one, and I have no problem with the quote or its message… only that it’s attributed as though it were something the pope had said. If we are validly citing the quote, we should reference it as “then Cardinal Ratzinger”. This is common in the military too, when quoting generals… if they said something as a captain (two decades ago), then it should be cited as “then Captain X”, because a Captain’s perspective and authority may be grossly different than a General’s… just as the pope’s perspective and authority is grossly different than even that of a high placed cardinal.

How about this one, from a canonized Pontiff (Pope St. Pius X)

I like it, and I agree as regards the current meaning of applause as adulation rather than agreement/affirmation!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would recommend going to a different parish. If he gives long sermons and people still applaud, he must be helping a lot of people. Why spoil something that’s obviously helping a lot of people.

All I know is, we have lost many parishioners over the years he has been pastor. There are so many issues, every time another issue arises, our family debates about our choice to continue there or leave. This has been ongoing for years. As I said, I have spoken to several members of the Parish Council and they have had -0- success in relaying to Father that he is having a negative effect on the parish membership.

I do not believe that he is a draw to the Masses. I think the applause is reflective of how the Mass at that parish is more of a performance when he is there. When there are guest priests, there is no applause. It is a very “modern” church, with no orthodox elements whatsoever.

Here’s another quirk of his. We have a HUGE crucifix, which he installed. When the gifts are brought up, he takes the basket of contributions, walks around the altar, and raises the basket up to Jesus on the cross, holds it there for a (long) minute and places the basket at the foot of the cross. It looks for all the world as if we are sacrificing to that representation of Jesus, and I wince every time, and just shut my eyes and pray. It is a very theatrical gesture. What do you think of that?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

All I know is, we have lost many parishioners over the years he has been pastor. There are so many issues, every time another issue arises, our family debates about our choice to continue there or leave. This has been ongoing for years. As I said, I have spoken to several members of the Parish Council and they have had -0- success in relaying to Father that he is having a negative effect on the parish membership.

I do not believe that he is a draw to the Masses. I think the applause is reflective of how the Mass at that parish is more of a performance when he is there. When there are guest priests, there is no applause. It is a very “modern” church, with no orthodox elements whatsoever.

Here’s another quirk of his. We have a HUGE crucifix, which he installed. When the gifts are brought up, he takes the basket of contributions, walks around the altar, and raises the basket up to Jesus on the cross, holds it there for a (long) minute and places the basket at the foot of the cross. It looks for all the world as if we are sacrificing to that representation of Jesus, and I wince every time, and just shut my eyes and pray. It is a very theatrical gesture. What do you think of that?

Well I just honestly think if he gets applause, he must be helping people, and those of us who don’t like/want/need the novelties he is using, might do a lot better to find a parish where we can help build things up rather than tear things down.

The closest parish to my house is kind of like that. They do things that I find weird and un-orthodox. So I just go elsewhere. I don’t understand what people like about that parish, but apparently some people like it, so who am I to ruin it for them? Each person is different.

 

[thomas_jd]

I have seen applause given to priests and also to lay speakers.
Often the context of the talk seems to warrant the applause.
This is rather a singular occurence in my experience.
Weekly applause would be showboating .

 

[Rina_Badal]

I’m just being silly I know, Rina but- did the homily about applause receive applause?

You bet!!
Peace,
Rina

 

[Kerry77]

I wrote about this on the Christmas thread, but at Christmas Day Mass this year, the cantor went into a solo of O Holy Night even though Communion was over. When she was done, a man stood up and shouted BRAVO BRAVO! and then everyone applauded.

I love Christmas Mass. You just never know what is going to happen.

 

[TheMc]

I wrote about this on the Christmas thread, but at Christmas Day Mass this year, the cantor went into a solo of O Holy Night even though Communion was over. When she was done, a man stood up and shouted BRAVO BRAVO! and then everyone applauded.

I love Christmas Mass. You just never know what is going to happen.

Must have been the hymn envisioned by GIRM par 88. I might note here, that this is one of the few places the GIRM actually envisions a hymn being sung.

 

[AnneTeresa]

I have several thoughts on this…

To the OP, you are clearly not liking your parish so it makes sense to me for you to move. It does sound like there are some very odd things happening. :shrug:I’m always so grateful that I live in a city where there are lots of different churches with different personalities so we can choose.

Secondly, we have a fantastic priest who is very holy and reverent. After his homily he always says Glory Be to the Father… and the congregation finishes it. I LOVE that. He is also very happy as a person, but is clear about what is OK and what is not, doesn’t water things down.

He also, at every Sunday mass, thanks the servers and choir after mass. I’m in the choir and I don’t care one way or another. It’s simply a gesture of gratitude, that’s all. He is Nigerian, I don’t know if that makes a difference in what he does. But it’s not a big deal either way. No one expects it or cares really. He’s just being grateful.

Finally, our congregation almost always claps at the end of mass. People LOVE the mass I go to. You just feel God’s love while you are there, in the liturgy, in the music. They clap because they are happy and not to honor the people. I’ve also been to churches and masses where no one would EVER clap or say thank you.

Different strokes, different folks… that’s the catholic church I love.