Appropriate Dress For Women

[DJgang]

For anyone who was curious:

I’ve since grown rather close to my colleague; close enough to feel comfortable asking her about this. It turns out that she indeed wears the hijab due to convenience and accessibility. She finds that the Muslim standard of dress for women more than satisfies her sense of modesty, and the only way she can (these are her words) “dress modestly without looking like [her] grandmother is by shopping for female clothing directed to Muslim consumers. This includes the hijab as a veil.”

I asked her how she feels about giving the impression that she’s a Muslim when in fact she’s a Catholic. She told me that it is something that concerns her at times, but in reality her White-Latino ethnicity actually prompts lots of questions concerning “when she converted to Islam”, which in turn provides an ample opportunity for her to say “actually, I’m Catholic…” and continue on with evangelization, as well as a proverbial soap box upon which she gets to pontificate on the virtues of modesty.

All that I can say is wow! I am so glad you asked her because I’ve been following this thread.

Is she married? (sorry if I missed that if you’ve already said)

I would, just being honest, wear hijab style clothing if #1, my husband wouldn’t disagree (haven’t asked him yet) and #2, yes, worried that everyone would think that I am muslim.

I, like the lady you speak of, have tried to wear certain clothing that feels comfortable and modest, but I almost turn frumpy looking and that’s not what I want. I want jeans or pants, I want long shirts and yes a head covering of some sort…

I’ve been praying for two years now for God to help me in this area. Please pray for me.

Thanks for posting and starting this thread…

Can’t help but wonder if this lady happens to have a blog or something on the internet that might help Catholic women who want to dress this way.

God bless! Dana

 

[DJgang]

This actually makes me curious about a mid-aged lady I frequently see at University. She is Anglo, but she wears a hijab and is very modest - very Islamic looking…but your story makes me rethink “could she be Catholic?”.

Ask her! Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[ChildOfTheLight]

Hi

I have wondered this for a while, and I hope someone here can give me a correct answer.

I know some women wear skirts and dresses all the time (I have tried to be one of them, though I have stopped recently (I’d like to go back to it)). I also know of veiling and I think I may be open to trying.

Thing is, I have tried to find out whether or not it is **required ** of women to veil and wear skirts.

I heard Padre Pio wouldn’t hear the confessions of women who did not wear skirts ( and long ones at that!). I have a hard time believing that this is more than his own opinion though, as a lot of catholic women I know are okay with wearing pants and no priests or bishops seem to be arguing against it.

I am frustrated because I hear people on both sides of the argument say they are right. Opinion is one thing (we can argue about how far to take liberalism later), but wearing a skirt and veil is either still required or not still required. There’s no way it can be both . I just want the real truth.

Here are my questions:

-Is veiling required in women?
-If so, what is the mimimum times for a woman to veil (just during prayer or…)?
-How much hair sould veiling cover?

-Are skirts required in women?
-If so, how long (I’ve heard knee length but Padre Pio says longer)?
-All the time required (how about sports like biking and skiing)?

-Will breaking one of the above constitute mortal sin, or venial?

All answers, even if you have only one or two, are certainly welcome. However, please note that I am not asking for preference. I will happily note your opinion once you help provide me with a definite answer on womens modesty.

I just want to add my opinion. I think women should wear veils (during prayer anyway) and skirts (though only knee length required, not ankle). This should be done to help protect our feminin identity and I think men will respect us more for it. I don’t know that we cause men to sin more by wearing pants though.

Thanks for your answers!

(Sorry if I’m in the wrong spot)

 

[ConstantineTG]

-Is veiling required in women?

No

-Are skirts required in women?

No

-If so, how long (I’ve heard knee length but Padre Pio says longer)?

While the Church doesn’t require women to wear skirts, common sense would say that those who do wear at least one in modest length. I would say nothing that would show the knees, more conservative groups will say nothing above the ankles.

-All the time required (how about sports like biking and skiing)?

-Will breaking one of the above constitute mortal sin, or venial?

As noted, they are not required so there is neither a time required, or a sin attached to wearing something else

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

First of all, I’m going to address the skirt issue.

NO WHERE in any Catholic teaching, document, encyclical, etc does it say “women are not to wear pants”. What it does say in the Old Testament was that women should not dress in men’s clothing and men should not dress in women’s. Given that men in Biblical times and in Biblical lands wore robes and tunics, there is no justification or evidence in that verse that women are not to wear pants. The ancient Hebrews (for who that verse was written) DID NOT wear pants on either gender. That verse, when interpreted by someone other than a Fundamentalist, tends to be a call to avoid dressing as the other gender to attract them in a homosexual way.

Next, there are some people who take St Pio’s words as though they were spoken EX CATHEDRA…while he was a holy man and now a canonized saint, he was not the Vicar of Christ.

If you want to take the whole “holy and canonized thing” to heart, St Gianna Molla, who died in 1962 and was canonized by John Paul ll, was known to wear ski pants and hiking trousers…we even have pictures of her wearing them…in the 1950’s and 1960’s!

Also, there are many who interpret the words of Our Blessed Mother at Fatima regarding clothes that are offensive to mean “pants on women”…I think that verse gets used by many to describe “pants”, when in fact, I think it describes the “spaghetti strapped, above the knee dresses” (and worse) that would be worn by Flappers a few years later. Those dresses were/are very immodest and given the historical account of pants (didn’t appear on men until around the later middle ages in Europe), I would gather those visions had nothing to do with women’s pants!!

As far as headcoverings, I’m going to let someone else cover that one (no pun intended).

Please note, this topic can get pretty heated and moderators have been “called in” when it got pretty ugly recently (last week) on another thread in this section regarding the whole “skirt/dress only” thing.

 

[rook476]

This is a very tricky question. On the one hand, the “rules” still ask for women to have their heads covered during prayer. On the other, we are told not to tempt ourselves to pride by making a show of our devotion, and in today’s churches a veiled woman would certainly be a show.

For weekly Mass, I tend to try to go for a middle ground that will not stand out too much, but will have me prayerfully covered. Something like this: headcoverings-by-devorah.com/headcoverings_headband_coverings.htm or a scarf tied over my head like this headcoverings-by-devorah.com/headcoverings_headband_coverings.htm. I’m not sure if this next link will work, but for my wedding I covered a lot more, like this: flickr.com/photos/valeriehardt/4789672720/in/set-72157624483859112/#/. I don’t know of any rules about exactly how much hair needs to be covered, but those are the amounts that make me feel “covered up enough,” so I hope it is pleasing to God as well.

As for skirts, women are asked, of course, to wear women’s clothing. As pants are made for women now as well as men, that doesn’t exclude them outright, I think. I will say that I like to wear skirts because they can be much more modest and form-covering than pants are, just by their nature. BUT, it’s so hard to find skirts and dresses that are cut long enough nowadays, that I often find it more modest to wear a well-fitting (as in, not too tight, etc.) pair of pants! If you’re going to wear a skirt, knee length seems to be the common-consensus minimum.

For me, that’s all the time. I will not wear a skirt shorter than that because it is immodest. Both women and men are asked to dress modestly at all times; what defines modest may or may not have a set definition as far as I know. I do know that exposed shoulders, cleavage, and open-toed shoes are not appropriate in Mass!

I’m sorry if I can’t provide you more concrete directions to doctrine. I would consult CCC 2521-2524 at the very least.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Before you get the Catholics who say women should wear a long burlap bag with a head covering and scarf, and/or the Catholics who say it’s fine to walk around in a bikini and demand respect, I’m just going to jump in and say you don’t need to go to either of these extremes to be valued as a woman of Christ. You can be stylish and modest…in other words, there’s a nice place in the middle you can arrive to. Your body is a temple and it should reflect the beauty at your core. I hope you understand what I mean - please private message me if you don’t. I’d rather bow out of this thread (and other modesty threads) since it can get pretty uncharitable. Be prepared.

And so it begins…

God bless,
Therese

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I just want to add my opinion. I think women should wear veils (during prayer anyway) and skirts (though only knee length required, not ankle). This should be done to help protect our feminin identity and I think men will respect us more for it. I don’t know that we cause men to sin more by wearing pants though.

Somehow I missed this. I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

 

[StFrancisXavier]

Somehow I missed this. I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Say yes to the dress.

 

[runningdude]

Eve wore fig leaves

then again, the only other human in the universe at the time was her husband…

(for those who were reading closely, Christ wasn’t born yet )

 

[jamanne]

Oh yeah ?? you ever tried wearing a skirt of any length in Ontario in January ???/did you ever try pushing a vehicle out of the snow banks five feet high from the Church parking lot ,with toddlers in the back seat?did you ever have to put chains round your tires to get to the supermarket in a whiteout while wearing a skirt .?what part of the world do you people all live in ??/did you ever try using a snow plow ten feet high to pull school buses out fro m under six feet of snow.some people should just keep quiet and listen to themselves .The Catholic Church encompasses the whole world not just some nice places with nice climates …God gave us clothes to use as is needed for comfort and protection he also gave us commonsense .Not every woman looks sexy in mini skirts some look quite comical .even frightening just like women don’t faint with desire every time some muddleaged wannabe Elvis Presley comes slithering along ,sexy isn’t about exposing body parts theres alot more to it than the visuals

 

[Catholic90]

Oh yeah ?? you ever tried wearing a skirt of any length in Ontario in January ???/did you ever try pushing a vehicle out of the snow banks five feet high from the Church parking lot ,with toddlers in the back seat?did you ever have to put chains round your tires to get to the supermarket in a whiteout while wearing a skirt .?what part of the world do you people all live in ??/did you ever try using a snow plow ten feet high to pull school buses out fro m under six feet of snow.some people should just keep quiet and listen to themselves .The Catholic Church encompasses the whole world not just some nice places with nice climates …God gave us clothes to use as is needed for comfort and protection he also gave us commonsense .Not every woman looks sexy in mini skirts some look quite comical .even frightening just like women don’t faint with desire every time some muddleaged wannabe Elvis Presley comes slithering along ,sexy isn’t about exposing body parts theres alot more to it than the visuals

Agreed. Snow is coming tonight. You can be fairly certain my skirt wearing days are done until warmer temperatures return. I have no problem with skirts in spring, summer, and fall, but winter? No way. Common sense (which is not so common, so I am not sure why it is called that).

 

[roselily]

Agreed. Snow is coming tonight. You can be fairly certain my skirt wearing days are done until warmer temperatures return. I have no problem with skirts in spring, summer, and fall, but winter? No way. Common sense (which is not so common, so I am not sure why it is called that).

It is- getting cold in Vancouver also, that today is 9 degrees,
Is there any harm to wearing pants ?

I wear hoodie and sports pants and running shoes always if I can,
but I do love ankle length dress, my mother think I was very pretty no mater what.

I was always certain there is you can be modest in dress as well as pants. that modest it is in your heart.

but I love my head covered in Hoodie, and if not wear hoodie , it is getting cold, I can find long scarf to wear can cover head also and boots.

 

[spunjalebi]

Can someone provide proof that veiling is NOT a requirement? And does veiling mean that one is submissive to a man? Or is it about modesty?

 

[Ashurie]

Can someone provide proof that veiling is NOT a requirement? And does veiling mean that one is submissive to a man? Or is it about modesty?

I am curious too.

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

Can someone provide proof that veiling is NOT a requirement? And does veiling mean that one is submissive to a man? Or is it about modesty?

Ohhh! I said I wasn’t going to comment about headcoverings at Mass, but I wanted to say that as far as wearing one to show “being submissive to a man”…a women is called to be submissive to her husband**, and he is to “give himself up” for her, just as Christ gave Himself up for the Church. That is the only man that a woman is called to be submissive to…and he better be living up to his end of the covenant!!

 

[spunjalebi]

Well thanks for your answer I am still interested about the other parts though.

 

[roselily]

Can someone provide proof that veiling is NOT a requirement? And does veiling mean that one is submissive to a man? Or is it about modesty?

I am curious too.

I like cover head is for God; and for other times not cover head, I have my long hair.
:blushlease consider ma as a nun for my point, though I am not in vacation yet.

 

[Ashurie]

I like cover head is for God; and for other times not cover head, I have my long hair.
:blushlease consider ma as a nun for my point, though I am not in vocation yet.

Thank you~

That is why I wish to cover my head for

 

[roselily]

Thank you~

That is why I wish to cover my head for

:hug1:
Oh, how lovely you are!