Approved English translation and "pro multis"

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Is the correct form now “for all” or “for many?” The priests in my diocese say “for all” I thought it had been changed back to “for many.” I am a confused Re-vert…
 
It’s still “for ALL” since we still don’t yet have a new translation from Latin to English. I’ve heard that the new translation will be “for MANY” but until it officially comes out we don’t know for sure.
 
Is there any information out there as to when the new translation might be available?
 
Here is the explanation by the Congregation for Divine Worship regarding Pro Multis:
There are, however, many arguments in favour of a more precise rendering of the traditional formula pro multis:
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a. The Synoptic Gospels (Mt 26,28; Mk 14,24) make specific reference to “many” (pollvn) for whom the Lord is offering the Sacrifice, and this wording has been emphasized by some biblical scholars in connection with the words of the prophet Isaiah (53, 11-12). It would have been entirely possible in the Gospel texts to have said “for all” (for example, cf. Luke 12,41); instead, the formula given in the institution narrative is “for many”, and the words have been faithfully translated thus in most modern biblical versions.
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b. The Roman Rite in Latin has always said pro multis and never pro omnibus in the consecration of the chalice.
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c. The anaphoras of the various Oriental Rites, whether in Greek, Syriac, Armenian, the Slavic languages, etc., contain the verbal equivalent of the Latin pro multis in their respective languages.
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d. “For many” is a faithful translation of pro multis, whereas “for all” is rather an explanation of the sort that belongs properly to catechesis.
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e. The expression “for many”, while remaining open to the inclusion of each human person, is reflective also of the fact that this salvation is not brought about in some mechanistic way, without one’s willing or participation; rather, the believer is invited to accept in faith the gift that is being offered and to receive the supernatural life that is given to those who participate in this mystery, living it out in their lives as well so as to be numbered among the “many” to whom the text refers.
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f. In line with the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam, effort should be made to be more faithful to the Latin texts in the typical editions.
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  1. The Bishops’ Conferences of those countries where the formula “for all” or its equivalent is currently in use are therefore requested to undertake the necessary catechesis of the faithful on this matter in the next one or two years to prepare them for the introduction of a precise vernacular translation of the formula pro multis (e.g, “for many”, “per molti”, etc.) in the next translation of the Roman Missal that the Bishops and the Holy See will approve for use in their country.
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Of course, if the priest were to recite the EP in Latin, there wouldn’t be an issue because he would have to say the words “pro multis”.
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I hope this helps you.
 
Just recently I noticed that our associate pastor has been dealing with the issue by saying those two words in Latin:
“It will be shed for you and pro multis so that sins may be forgiven.”
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I have heard somewhere that the Holy Father would like the words of institution to be spoken in Latin. That would avoid the whole problem!
 
PhilotheaZ said:
Just recently I noticed that our associate pastor has been dealing with the issue by saying those two words in Latin:
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If I were a priest, I would say (at least) the entirety of the consecration in Latin. My point is, if I’m gonna say a couple words in Latin, best to do complete sentences. 🙂
 
The new translation is due out sometime around 2010 unless the USCCB blocks it again in their stupid committees.
 
Does anyone know if the new approved translation of the Novus Ordo has corrected the “pro multis” to read “for many”, rather than “for all”?

Rome gave them two years to correct it, and that was about two years ago.
 
Thank You Holy Father for approving a new translation of the English Liturgy! Hope that this will increase both piety and devotion during Mass.
 
jeff417 said:
Thank You Holy Father for approving a new translation of the English Liturgy! Hope that this will increase both piety and devotion during Mass.
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the new translation is available at the USCCB website. It is a study edition only to help liturgists compile catechetical material and for composers to work on mass settings. It will not become official proabaly until the collects are approved, and since the bishops voted them down in June it wont happen for a few more years.
 
usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-108.shtml

The more significant changes of the people’s parts are:

  1. *]*et cum spiritu tuo * is rendered as “And with your spirit”
    ]In the Confiteor, the text “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault” has been added
    ]The Gloria     has been translated differently and the structure is different from the present text
    *]In the Preface dialogue the translation of “Dignum et justum est” is “It is right and just”
    *]The first line of the Sanctus now reads “Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts”
    *]The response of the people at the Ecce Agnus Dei is “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.”
    At this time, no date is available as to when the entire translation of the Roman Missal will be released.

    It will be interesting to see if our parish will incorporate these changes quickly or slowly when the approved texts are ready for distribution.
 
According to the version online, the new words are:
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT,WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.
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AJV said:
According to the version online, the new words are:
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Wow, that’s quite a different reading than what we are used to hearing. There are many more changes than what are noted in news articles. I’m looking forward to it!
 
Why was this not done 40 years ago? I don’t think implementing this will be as easy as it seems. These people have been too conditioned to replying “And also with you.” In fact, sometimes they reply to the extension of his hands rather than “The Lord be with you.” We’re all such creatures of habit, you know.

I hope the bishops don’t vote it down again but I wouldn’t blame them if they did. Believe it or not, there is still pastoral value in the “old” new missal.

Having said that, I’d prefer “P.The Lord be with THEE. R. And with THY spirit.” Sounds a little more prayerful.
 
ProVobis said:
Why was this not done 40 years ago? I don’t think implementing this will be as easy as it seems. These people have been too conditioned to replying “And also with you.” In fact, sometimes they reply to the extension of his hands rather than “The Lord be with you.” We’re all such creatures of habit, you know.

I hope the bishops don’t vote it down again but I wouldn’t blame them if they did. Believe it or not, there is still pastoral value in the “old” new missal.

Having said that, I’d prefer “P.The Lord be with THEE. R. And with THY spirit.” Sounds a little more prayerful.
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It will take a while to inform the congregations of the whys and wherefores of the changes, hence the reason that it won’t be introduced until 2010.

And I happen to think that the THEEs and THYs sound far too much like people who don’t know any better trying to sound like Shakespeare. Let’s not put on airs, huh?
 
ProVobis said:
I hope the bishops don’t vote it down again but I wouldn’t blame them if they did. Believe it or not, there is still pastoral value in the “old” new missal.

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The Ordinary is now past the point of being voted down. This is the WHITE BOOK version, which IS the version that will be used. The Congregation for Divine Worship is beginning to send out materials to parishes for a two-year period of explanation and catechesis. There is an explanatory letter from Cardinal Arinze on how this introduction is to be handled.

wdtprs.com/blog/2008/08/card-arinzes-letter-to-card-george-with-approval-of-the-ordo-missae-translation/
 
Timothysis said:
It will take a while to inform the congregations of the whys and wherefores of the changes, hence the reason that it won’t be introduced until 2010.
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Doesn’t make sense. If it takes a while, then it should be introduced as soon as possible, last Sunday the latest.

But, of course, those copyrights!
And I happen to think that the THEEs and THYs sound far too much like people who don’t know any better trying to sound like Shakespeare.
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So why the appeal of the Anglican Mass?
 
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