Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon?

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Tex, do you think since they were wrong on Cumorah despite their SWORE above…that they are wrong on there being a “great apostasy”?
They have been wrong on most things.

All one has to do it look at the teachings and comments of their early leaders. There is no way prophets of the True God would say the things they said and be wrong about soooo many things.
 
We never really got much in the way of instruction on what it’s like to be an eternal wife and have spirit children. There is Heavenly Mother who is the supreme example of motherhood, but we were never taught much about her or her role, and we were never really allowed to even talk about her. If we talked about anything, we talked about if we really would have to share our husbands. That is a huge fear among LDS womenfolk which is rarely discussed. Most of them, especially those who married young, tell themselves that Heavenly Father would never command THEIR husbands to have plural wives. It would always be someone else who would have to share her husband. I was a single woman in the LDS church for a long time (married at 30) so the fear of polygamy was forefront in my mind. I did not want to be some man’s bonus wife who just bears spirit children and not have any kind of real relationship. I cannot tell you of all the pain and heartache I felt in my 20’s because I thought that this would be my eternal lot.

Eternal polygamy is the unspoken fear of many LDS women who actually think about LDS doctrine. I struggled with it as long as I could remember until I figured out that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Huge burden lifted when I finally realized that.

In all honesty, I never really felt that marriage and family life was my vocation. I felt like I had to get married because that is what was expected and required of me. Don’t get me wrong, I love my husband and children but my identity does not revolve around them. I would be just as happy without marriage and children. I am also a working mom, so I was also a bad Mormon mother, even though my children always stayed with grandparents and have never been in daycare.

I actually always admired Catholic nuns. Many years ago, I was visiting Trinity University in Dublin with my parents and saw the Book of Kells exhibit. I made the comment that if I were alive back in the Middle Ages, I would have wanted to be a nun. My good Mormon mother was shocked that I wouldn’t want to get married and have children. It was my eternal destiny! :eek:
How does your husband and family feel about your converting to the Catholic Church? Welcome home and prayers. God Bless, Memaw
 
They have been wrong on most things.

All one has to do it look at the teachings and comments of their early leaders. There is no way prophets of the True God would say the things they said and be wrong about soooo many things.
Yet many Mormons continue to believe their leadership? :confused:
 
Yet many Mormons continue to believe their leadership? :confused:
The vast majority of LDS have little or no knowledge of their church’s history or the teachings of former prophets; nor do they care about it.

The few who care and find out usually leave.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
The vast majority of LDS have little or no knowledge of their church’s history or the teachings of former prophets; nor do they care about it.
The few who care and find out usually leave.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

I do not think this is true and I do not think you can substantiate it.
I have no more than my personal example and experiences to question you, but if you have more than your personal examples and experience I would like to know about it.
Charity, TOm
 
I do not think this is true and I do not think you can substantiate it.
I have no more than my personal example and experiences to question you, but if you have more than your personal examples and experience I would like to know about it.
Charity, TOm
so, now we have two topics that you do not think are true yet you are wrong about.

The first is archaeology.

This is your second.

I have much experience asking Mormons what they believe. Most have no knowledge of the multiple versions of the first make up vision. They have no knowledge of the lack of evidence. They have no knowledge of Adam-God or that God was once a human. They believe that the LDS Church is basically like all protestant churches.

And that is what happens when you follow false prophets who constantly change doctrine and hide their truths from the masses
 
Yet many Mormons continue to believe their leadership? :confused:
Yep. Most do not really know the problematic past and weird teachings and doctrine. The leaders have too much invested to come clean. And many just bury their heads in the sand or make a practice of nonsensical apologetics that might make them feel good but make no logical sense.
 
The vast majority of LDS have little or no knowledge of their church’s history or the teachings of former prophets; nor do they care about it.

The few who care and find out usually leave.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Or is it more of a deliberate move NOT to study the history of the LDS church and it is so-called prophet? Afraid of the results? 😉
 
Yep. Most do not really know the problematic past and weird teachings and doctrine. The leaders have too much invested to come clean. And many just bury their heads in the sand or make a practice of nonsensical apologetics that might make them feel good but make no logical sense.
So in others: Come up with some good words to cover it up?
 
so, now we have two topics that you do not think are true yet you are wrong about.

The first is archaeology.

This is your second.

I have much experience asking Mormons what they believe. Most have no knowledge of the multiple versions of the first make up vision. They have no knowledge of the lack of evidence. They have no knowledge of Adam-God or that God was once a human. They believe that the LDS Church is basically like all protestant churches.

And that is what happens when you follow false prophets who constantly change doctrine and hide their truths from the masses
Exactly! The LDS church and Jehovah Witnesses share so much in common.
 
How does your husband and family feel about your converting to the Catholic Church? Welcome home and prayers. God Bless, Memaw
My husband was Eastern Orthodox and now Eastern Catholic so he is very happy. Our children are ages 3 and 5 so they are just going with the flow. They actually like to go to Mass to be with Jesus. LDS sacrament meeting was boring for them, and it was very difficult to keep them entertained. Everyone in our household is happy!
 
Or is it more of a deliberate move NOT to study the history of the LDS church and it is so-called prophet? Afraid of the results? 😉
In some cases, yes. There is certainly a lot of head-in-the-sand action. Can’t say as I really blame them.
 
According to an insider at the COB, these are the number of resignation requests for the following years:

1995:…35,420
1996:…50,177
1997:…55,200
1998:…78,750
1999:…81,200
2000:…87,500
2001:…101,454
2002:…105,763
Posted by PaulDupre1
“The vast majority of LDS have little or no knowledge of their church’s history or the teachings of former prophets; nor do they care about it.”
Posted by PaulDupre1
“The few who care and find out usually leave.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)”

I do not think this is true and I do not think you can substantiate it.
I have no more than my personal example and experiences to question you, but if you have more than your personal examples and experience I would like to know about it.
Charity, TOm
Ah, TOm, that brings back memories! Some happy, even. I’ve read many articles on exactly what PaulDupre1 described, and I have spoken with scores of Mormons and ex-Mormons. Personal experiences are valid indicators! There is more information than just personal experiences, however, but some personal experiences are, to paraphrase a General Authority, “less helpful.” The experience of someone who only knows only current members, for example, would be less helpful, or one who knows only ex-members. I wonder why the General Authorities aren’t willing to openly share the myriads statistics they have collected on revenue and expense, retention and attrition?

David Stewart attempts to address the subject of “LDS Church Growth, Member Activity, and Convert Retention: Review and Analysis” at cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=13. Statistics are hard to come by, but are more available in some countries, such as the UK, than in others, such as the US.

Statistics plus analysis from 2007, covering the years 1973-2005 can be found at mormoncurtain.com/topic_mormonmembership.html#pub_-1029862414, and an analysis by a different person for the years 1977-2011, at mormoncurtain.com/topic_mormonmembership.html#pub_2124803856. The attrition rate has been increasing since the advent of the internet.
 
I do not think this is true and I do not think you can substantiate it.
I have no more than my personal example and experiences to question you, but if you have more than your personal examples and experience I would like to know about it.
Charity, TOm
Hi Tom,

The missionaries who came to our house did not know when the Great Apostasy happened or anything else about it.

They did not know that the first apostles had gone out far and wide spreading the gospel baptizing thousands.

Did not know who Eusebius was and that he had written a historical record of the early Church, thus proving that there was an early Church.

Could not explain how my family has been Catholic for centuries.

All they wanted to do was go through their “routine” and got angry when we asked questions.

They were not Mormon because they knew about history and decided the church was true.
They were a couple of kids who were there to teach us “the truth” as it was told to them. They were totally ignorant of Church history and we basically ended up sending them on their way after seven or so visits with a stack of history books in their hands.
 
Hi Tom,
The missionaries who came to our house did not know when the Great Apostasy happened or anything else about it.
They did not know that the first apostles had gone out far and wide spreading the gospel baptizing thousands.
Did not know who Eusebius was and that he had written a historical record of the early Church, thus proving that there was an early Church.
… They were totally ignorant of Church history and we basically ended up sending them on their way after seven or so visits with a stack of history books in their hands.
It didn’t use to bother me much that they didn’t know about even people named in the New Testament as being faithful Christians including householdsful. Nor that they were ignorant of Eusebius. But now it does. Since I expect my own children to know something about that, and since Eusebius is, well, vital. He should be absolutely required reading, kind of like “Post-Acts” Acts. 🙂

Giving them some books was a great service. I know that it takes a lot of reading, studying, talking, thinking, to begin to see the first glimmer of a merciful crack in one’s engrave-in-stone beliefs.
 
Archaeological evidence of a horse culture of Kazakhstan, c. 4th-3rd century BCE:

Horse tack, wood and tin

Round Tray on Conical Stand with Figures of Seated Man and Standing Horse in Center. Bronze

U-Shaped Element with Scale Pattern from Bridle Throat Latch, late 4th - early 3rd century B.C.E
What a simpleton I have been. What a fool I have been. RebeccaJ, I thank you from the top of my heart. Horses. I had always thought in terms of skeletons. But where horses are ridden and driven, there will be . . . artifacts! The Nemesis of Mormonism. Saddles, tack, stirrups, at least according to Mormon artists’ renditions. Table decorations, paintings, figurines galore. What animal has taken a predominant place in any culture, whose culture did not create artistic reproductions of that animal - horse in post-discovery America, cow and elephant in India, seal among Eskimos, whale among the Pacific Northwest tribes, pig and chicken as well as horse in China, hippopotamus and giraffe in Africa, camels wherever they are. I’m just thinking, don’t know if this is accurate or true. Seems like it might be.
 
I do not think this is true and I do not think you can substantiate it.
I have no more than my personal example and experiences to question you, but if you have more than your personal examples and experience I would like to know about it. Charity, TOm
Does this make it easier to believe? It is from USA Today.
It is from one of your church’s elders after all.

“This year, Elder Marlin Jensen, the Mormon Church’s outgoing official historian, acknowledged that members are defecting from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “in droves” and that the pace is increasing.”

ETA: The article also includes a link to a survey that was performed that outlines reasons for leaving. Over 3000 people were polled.
 
Does this make it easier to believe? It is from USA Today
.
It is from one of your church’s elders after all.

“This year, Elder Marlin Jensen, the Mormon Church’s outgoing official historian, acknowledged that members are defecting from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “in droves” and that the pace is increasing.”

ETA: The article also includes a link to a survey that was performed that outlines reasons for leaving. Over 3000 people were polled.
I was aware of the 3000 people study and its results, but I didn’t fill out the survey.
I was not aware of the “in droves” comment.
I will concede this. I it is significant and I would not expect “in droves” if it was not.

I am of the opinion that there is too much point of contact with the BOM and the real world to believe that it was produced by folks in the 1830’s. I will continue to say this and nobody will engage the evidence. JamesCollins provided a link and I responded. Nobody has commented on the other connection I offered or the 2 dozen or so in the link I offered.
I do not believe it is impossible for me to be deceived, but I merely believe that I must do the best I can with the data. If nobody shows up at church tomorrow, I expect I will be Catholic shortly. I do not expect the critics to win the day however as I must believe there is some soundness to my faculties. Of course I could be wrong.
Charity, TOm
 
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