Archbishop Burke's instruction to EMHC and pro-abort politicians

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Nordar said:
I love Archbishop Burke. BRAVO!!! Now all we need are lots and lots of Archbishops just like him. 👍
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I agree!

What makes it bad for MOST of us Catholics is the luke warm, spineless that refuse to take a stance, either pro- or con- on this matter.

It becomes incredibly confusing, and does give a bad message.

I don’t have to agree, but at least let me have something to agree with (or disagree with)
 
Agreed - and to the poster who wants to teach Durbin the rules here in Illinois: He knows the rules, he chooses to ignore them. And bishops who ignore the behavior of pro-abortion politicians contribute to the problem by being spineless, and worse, sometimes appearing to embrace them.

What I don’t understand is that some of these same bishops would have no trouble at all telling someone divorced and remarried outside of the Church that they could not receive Holy Communion, yet they are silent when it comes to politicians who work very publicly against the Church’s teachings. Quite discouraging. Bravo to an archbishop who stands up for the Church.
 
Brendan,
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       not sure I agree with your analysist on private sin.
However the point is leaving such decisions to EMHC, is dangerous.

Heck, fundamentalist don’t even think lay people should be EMHC’s, yet they’re perfectly willing to accept EMHC’s making judgment calls? :rolleyes:

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Heck, fundamentalist don’t even think lay people should be EMHC’s, yet they’re perfectly willing to accept EMHC’s making judgment calls?
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There is no judgment involved; all that is required is the acknowledgment of objective truth.

Ender
 
MiddleBear said:
Reese is very smart. However, as with many of those who advocate “the Spirit of Vatican II” he is also ambiguious in his language.
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Sorry to inform many of you but there is no such thing as the Spirit of Vatican II! It is only a fabrication by those who felt that Vatican II did not go far enough! These people, comprised of European heretics, American free-love advocates, et al, would have been happy to see married priests, female priests, relaxation of divorce prohibition, acceptance of birth contol and abortation, etc.

Vatican II has issued its rulings. It is over and done with!

We need to look ahead and live in the present time. There is no good that comes from thinking about ‘how things might have been’. We have much to concern ourselves with the state of the present world.
 
Ender said:
There is no judgment involved; all that is required is the acknowledgment of objective truth.

Ender
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Having EMHC decide if a person is worthy enough to receive Holy Communion, is judgment.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Having EMHC decide if a person is worthy enough to receive Holy Communion, is judgment.
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Please help me out

How is it a judgement if they tell you “I have done blah-blah-blah”, and you and they both know that if you’ve done blah-blah-blah, you aren’t supposed to receive communion?

That’s like being with a friend and they tell you ‘I don’t have a license. It’s been suspended. I just need to go down to the court house to get it renewed, but I don’t have current license today’. Then, they ask ‘can I use your car?’.

Is it a judgement of yours that they aren’t to use the car? Or, are you being honest with them, and yourself, saying ‘He knows he shouldn’t be driving’?

What makes it different? Is it because we’re in church, we’re supposed to be blind?

“When someone tells you who they are, believe them” - Maya Angelou
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Having EMHC decide if a person is worthy enough to receive Holy Communion, is judgment.

Jim
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No one is worthy to recieve Holy Communion. Not you, not I, not even Pope Benedict.

However, the Church may define who may, and who may not, present themselves for Holy Communion. The Church also defines who a minister may give Holy Communion to (Canon 915).

And the minister is obligated to follow those instructions.
 
Brendan said:
No one is worthy to recieve Holy Communion. Not you, not I, not even Pope Benedict.

However, the Church may define who may, and who may not, present themselves for Holy Communion. The Church also defines who a minister may give Holy Communion to (Canon 915).

And the minister is obligated to follow those instructions.
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But one bishop does not make a church. Even on the (Arch)diocese level.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
But one bishop does not make a church. Even on the (Arch)diocese level.
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I’m confused by this comment.

Isn’t the Archbishop Burke in agreement with the church? Or is he talking about something that is heresy?

Please help me to understand
 
Apryl said:
Please help me out

How is it a judgement if they tell you “I have done blah-blah-blah”, and you and they both know that if you’ve done blah-blah-blah, you aren’t supposed to receive communion?

That’s like being with a friend and they tell you ‘I don’t have a license. It’s been suspended. I just need to go down to the court house to get it renewed, but I don’t have current license today’. Then, they ask ‘can I use your car?’.

Is it a judgement of yours that they aren’t to use the car? Or, are you being honest with them, and yourself, saying ‘He knows he shouldn’t be driving’?

What makes it different? Is it because we’re in church, we’re supposed to be blind?

“When someone tells you who they are, believe them” - Maya Angelou
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No one goes up to an EMHC while receiving communion, and tells them their sins.

As some one mentioned earlier, how does an EMHC know, that a person who the EMHC perceives to be in mortal sin, went to confession, just prior to Mass?

Again, its not a judgement call for an EMHC.

Don’t forget, three things must be present for mortal sin and one of them is full knowledge and consent. If a person doesn’t have that, when they committed their wrong, they are not in mortal sin and can receive communion. This is not an issue for an EMHC to determine.

Jim
 
Brendan said:
No one is worthy to recieve Holy Communion. Not you, not I, not even Pope Benedict.

However, the Church may define who may, and who may not, present themselves for Holy Communion. The Church also defines who a minister may give Holy Communion to (Canon 915).

And the minister is obligated to follow those instructions.
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We become worthy to receive communion through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is He who draws us to himself.

The Church teaches what not being well disposed to receive Holy Communion is, i.e. mortal sin, but the Church doesn’t leave that decision up to an EMHC.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
No one goes up to an EMHC while receiving communion, and tells them their sins.
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I am fully aware of that.

I am not talking of someone making such a proclamation while in line to receive communion.

My scenario is someone making such a statement, a proclamation, prior to mass, although they know that you are in the position of being Minister of the Eucharist (Ordinary, Extraordinary)

In that situation, they have been PLACED in a position that is hard to deal with.

We need to be taught, properly, what is the reaction to these situations. I think this is what we are talking about here.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Church teaches what not being well disposed to receive Holy Communion is, i.e. mortal sin, but the Church doesn’t leave that decision up to an EMHC.
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Let me get this straight… as I’m getting confused and frustrated.

The long and the short of what you are saying is that ANY ONE that is in a position to distribute the communion, that ANY ONE that approaches, they should be given the communion? The Body and Blood of Christ, even if the person that is HOLDING this Body and Blood in their hands has some reason to believe this should not be the case?

:mad:
 
Apryl said:
I am fully aware of that.

I am not talking of someone making such a proclamation while in line to receive communion.

My scenario is someone making such a statement, a proclamation, prior to mass, although they know that you are in the position of being Minister of the Eucharist (Ordinary, Extraordinary)

In that situation, they have been PLACED in a position that is hard to deal with.

We need to be taught, properly, what is the reaction to these situations. I think this is what we are talking about here.
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It doesn’t matter the EMHC is not in a position of authority to withhold communion from a Catholic who presents himself.

To give EMHCs this authority is a recipe for disaster.

Jim
 
Apryl said:
Let me get this straight… as I’m getting confused and frustrated.

The long and the short of what you are saying is that ANY ONE that is in a position to distribute the communion, that ANY ONE that approaches, they should be given the communion? The Body and Blood of Christ, even if the person that is HOLDING this Body and Blood in their hands has some reason to believe this should not be the case?

:mad:
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No, I’m saying (I’ll write it out) Extra-ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion,(lay people), don’t and should never have the authority to withhold communion from those they think are in mortal sin.

However a priest, does have this authority.

I hope I’ve explained myself well enough.

Jim
 
A person I know very well, is an EMHC at his parish. This person has such a twisted idea of what constitutes mortal sin, that he got into a heated debate with a priest over it, while on retreat. It got to the point where he was asked not to return for retreats at this monastery. I heard his side of the story, and I agreed with the priest, which of course angered him further.

I cringe at the idea that he would be given the authority to withhold communion from anyone. Heck I cringe knowing he’s teaching CCD.

Jim
 
and as far as being worthy to receive,

from the Eucharistic Prayer II
**We thank you for counting us worthy **to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit.
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Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Having EMHC decide if a person is worthy enough to receive Holy Communion, is judgment.

Jim
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You are (sort of) right. That is why the good archbishop limited it to only those people who are public officials who have taken a public stand in support of Abortion.

But as has been repeatedly stated over and over again, Canon law requires the withholding of Holy Communion from those who are engaged in public manifest grave sin and are unrepentant in their public conduct. The silly arguments that say “what if he/she just went to confession” are meaningless and simply do not apply. Public sin requires public contrition.

For you to call it judgmental is itself judgmental.
 
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