Archbishop Chaput responds to Pelosi-Pope meeting

[curtishouse29]

What constitutes judging? If I see you on the sidewalk beating your child with a 2" x 4" and I say that is wrong you should not do that. Am I judging you? If someone asks me if you are a good parent, and I say, “I don’t think so. She beats her child.” Am I judging you. I don’t think so. Now if I said, “You are a bad person and you are going to burn in hell for all eternity.” Then, yes, I am judging you and I am usurping God’s perogative.

We are told, that “by their fruits you shall know them.” Well, we have seen Pelosi’s fruits and they are very bad. Why would we be told that by their fruits we shall know them if we are not supposed to look at their fruits and discern good from evil?

Judging in of itself is not a bad thing. Actually the Lord tells us to judge righteously…

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We always hear the most famous of verses used by those that condemn judging of any kind “judge lest ye be judged” but that verse is speaking of those that judge hypocritically such as condemning somebody for adultery when you are doing the exact same thing.

We are commanded by Jesus Christ to judge righteously so how could we ignore this command and call ourselves faithful Christians at the same time? Just something for us all to contemplate. May God bless you all.

Curtis

 

[elts1956]

Using your analogy:

• Woman not condemned by Jesus for her action of adultery.
• Nancy Pelosi not condemned by Jesus for her actions of being pro-abortion.

Nancy Pelosi has not been condemned by Jesus, and of course we cannot condemn her either. But unless Ms. Pelosi cleans up her act she will condemn herself. However, as Catholics, we have the obligation to help those who may follow people such as her to keep to the true path of the teachings of the Church. Tolerance is a weakness, in some instances, that helps no one.

 

[Soutane]

Using your analogy:

• Woman not condemned by Jesus for her action of adultery.
• Nancy Pelosi not condemned by Jesus for her actions of being pro-abortion.

You’re forgetting the most important part-Christ told her to go and sin no more.

 

[Pookie_Dupre]

Why is a public punishment necessary for persons calling themselves Catholic yet not living a “Catholic” life?

Persons in public office who mouth off about Catholic teaching that is not “the truth” … need to be CORRECTED publicly! “The Truth” needs to be declared LOUD and CLEAR! This is what The Church is doing!

The big picture here is that 24% of the world’s population are members of The Catholic Church … it is not like a handful of American politicians are the only “relatives” the hierarchy need to stay awake nights worrying about!

It is not The Church’s job to punish or for that matter judge who should or should not BE punished. That is God’s job.
However, along with many other duties, it is The Church’s job to admonish and to teach … not just a few … but the many.

Those, in USA public office, who have been and are being admonished are intelligent enough to know what is “expected” of them. Just the fact that they have been elected to public office … should lend some credence … to the hope they aren’t absolute dummies!

If given the press time and coverage … Church teaching is being learned by everyone … The Catholic Church “voices” to the world at large The Church’s teaching that LIFE begins at conception … that man is not to use that life for any reason other than to love and glorify God. ANY disruption or misuse of this LIFE from the “womb” to the “tomb” should not ever “even” be so much as a thought for ANY member of The Catholic Church. If ANY person so much as “breaths” near the words, abortion, infant stem cell research, assisted suicide, or euthanasia and any other terminology having to do with the “culture of death” … that person … “lies through their teeth” … if they call themselves CATHOLIC!!!

As to the specifics of personal “what-ifs” well, that is left to the “Power” that handles what’s proper under ALL circumstances no matter what “WE” think!

Respectfully, Pookie

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Why is a public punishment necessary for persons calling themselves Catholic yet not living a “Catholic” life?

Persons in public office who mouth off about Catholic teaching that is not “the truth” … need to be CORRECTED publicly! “The Truth” needs to be declared LOUD and CLEAR! This is what The Church is doing!

Pookie:

You are absolutely correct that pseudo-Catholics in elected office need to be publicly corrected. The Church is doing that, I am uncertain whether the Church is doing it Loudly and Clearly. One way of being Loud and Clear in correction of these people is to publically excommunicate them for the good of their souls.

People like Pelosi (i.e. elected pseudo-Catholics) are causing public scandal and are in a position to lead the weak in faith into sin. For the sake of the weak, the Church needs to publicly discipline these elected officials.

Doctors who perform abortions and mothers who get abortions are automatically excommunicated. Pelosi and her ilk, by supporting Obama’s policies, are causing thousands and thousands of abortions world wide, surely that is worthy of an excommunication.

That is why a public punishment is necessary.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

It is one thing for people in general to say they disagree with the Catholic Church, or to state that she is wrong on a given issue or in a given teaching.

It is quite another for someone who claims to be a Catholic to say the same things, particularly if they are prominent people with some influence in society. It is that influence that the Church must act to counter by replying.

I dare say there have been a lot of anti-Catholic fatheads who have visited these pages and said some very nasty things about the Church. No public reply by the Bishops is necessary. But for someone claiming to be Catholic to use mass media to do so, and claim it is consistent with being a Catholic - that MUST be countered.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I have just finished reading this thread and am filled with questions. One post that made me sit up was where Pelosi’s granddaughter corrected her on the Eucharist not being a symbol, but real. This says much. If she does not believe in the real presence, why would she believe anything else. I noted the stats on 60% of Catholics voting for Obama. Over half of these never went to church and then another large group only went only once or twice a year. Does anyone know what Pelosi’s record on attending Church is? Does she attend regularly and receive Communion regularly? Can anyone give feedback on this? If she does not go regularly and receives Communion without benefit of confession, this is adding the sin of sacrilege on top of every thing else.

What I have read makes me question whether she is truly Catholic. I state this because to be truly Catholic, we must believe all that the Church believes and teaches. Cafeteria Catholicism does not cut it.

 

[Pookie_Dupre]

I have just finished reading this thread and am filled with questions. One post that made me sit up was where Pelosi’s granddaughter corrected her on the Eucharist not being a symbol, but real. This says much. If she does not believe in the real presence, why would she believe anything else. I noted the stats on 60% of Catholics voting for Obama. Over half of these never went to church and then another large group only went only once or twice a year. Does anyone know what Pelosi’s record on attending Church is? Does she attend regularly and receive Communion regularly? Can anyone give feedback on this? If she does not go regularly and receives Communion without benefit of confession, this is adding the sin of sacrilege on top of every thing else.

What I have read makes me question whether she is truly Catholic. I state this because to be truly Catholic, we must believe all that the Church believes and teaches. Cafeteria Catholicism does not cut it.

“One” of my points exactly! How does the Church “excommunicate” anyone who is not “actually” CATHOLIC to begin with.

Someone, in this thread, posted that persons excommunicate themselves … with that I agree. Especially those in public office. Their ignorance of the Catholic faith gives credence to the “fact” … that merely calling themselves Catholic does not make them “such” … that the Church does not have to lay-it-on-the-line for all the muck. Where “they” go the Church does not follow … the Church “LEADS” … if “they” do not follow … so be it. The Church has been out there since Christ … open and up front … The Church doesn’t have to “throw the bums out” … that is not necessary … ALL mother Church has to do is say these are the rules of the “house” … live them or there is the door … “THEY” know what to do!!! TWO bad guys do not make any GOOD decisions. The Church choses the better part … read the Scripture about Mary and Martha … those in public life claiming family connections and running around “looking stupid” chose their plight … The Church chose the better part!! Instead of running around “doing stuff” so everything looks “okay” for EVERYONE … Mother Church sits and listen to the Words of Christ!!

Christ is the HEAD of The Church … all others are there to serve … by the power of the Holy Spirit what “NEEDS doing” will get done … and in God’s time not ours!!

 

[Jennifer123]

"
Christ is the HEAD of The Church … all others are there to serve … by the power of the Holy Spirit what “NEEDS doing” will get done … and in God’s time not ours!!

But the Bishops are in charge of many and their service is to protect their flock. How can they do that when very prominent Catholics are publicly stating mistruths about Church doctrine…not to mention telling the rest of us that even though they themselves have been corrected, their own false opinion stands?

 

[Pookie_Dupre]

But the Bishops are in charge of many and their service is to protect their flock. How can they do that when very prominent Catholics are publicly stating mistruths about Church doctrine…not to mention telling the rest of us that even though they themselves have been corrected, their own false opinion stands?

Dear One, “their own false opinion” does NOT stand. Surely enough “public” correction has followed about the truth vs fiction in the matter … the telling of the facts which makes the news informs everyone … because “that” is the news!!

Statements made by a “SO CALLED” Catholic is corrected by The Church … that which was stated is refuted by Bishops and the Pope. That is the news!! Had what was stated been the “truth” there simply would have been no news for anyone and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Do you think anyone reading or listening or viewing the news is left to believe these “false statements” and “less than stella activities” are acceptable to The Church? I don’t think so.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I’ve never heard a good reason why anyone could advocate the murder of the unborn-- be in a state of mortal sin–oppose the teaching of the Catholic Church and sacriledge the Eucharist by receiving it in such a state.

When anyone does this they have excommunicated themselves.

Why any Catholic bishop who cares for their flock would not counsel any public officials who do this I do not know.

Why any Catholic bishop after doing such counseling of the public official would serve the Eucharist to them and sacriledge the Eucharist or not inform the priests in their see to allow them to sacriledge the Eucharist I do not know.

Why Catholic laity who witness such sacriledge and not bring the hurt of such a thing to their bishops and priest’s attention I do not know.

And lastly how any Catholic would vote for such a person and participate in their support for the murder of the unborn or why bishops and priests would not preach the truth about abortion to their flocks I do not know.

Pray that bishops, priests, laity, religious, and all elected public officials will simply do what is right and love the unborn and not support their killing whom God has created.

 

[elts1956]

I’ve never heard a good reason why anyone could advocate the murder of the unborn-- be in a state of mortal sin–oppose the teaching of the Catholic Church and sacriledge the Eucharist by receiving it in such a state.

When anyone does this they have excommunicated themselves.

Why any Catholic bishop who cares for their flock would not counsel any public officials who do this I do not know.

Why any Catholic bishop after doing such counseling of the public official would serve the Eucharist to them and sacriledge the Eucharist or not inform the priests in their see to allow them to sacriledge the Eucharist I do not know.

Why Catholic laity who witness such sacriledge and not bring the hurt of such a thing to their bishops and priest’s attention I do not know.

And lastly how any Catholic would vote for such a person and participate in their support for the murder of the unborn or why bishops and priests would not preach the truth about abortion to their flocks I do not know.

Pray that bishops, priests, laity, religious, and all elected public officials will simply do what is right and love the unborn and not support their killing whom God has created.

I agree with everything you say here, especially “Why any Catholic bishop after doing such counseling of the public official would serve the Eucharist to them and sacriledge the Eucharist or not inform the priests in their see to allow them to sacriledge the Eucharist I do not know”.

I just don’t understand it either. What is more important to these Bishops, supposedly wanting to save the sould of these politicians through “charity”, or seeing droves of ill catechised parishoners thinking it is okay to commit sacrilege by receiving Holy Communion while publicly supporting abortion?

TOLERANCE IS FOR THE PERSON WHO HAS NO CONVICTION

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

“One” of my points exactly! How does the Church “excommunicate” anyone who is not “actually” CATHOLIC to begin with.

Someone, in this thread, posted that persons excommunicate themselves … with that I agree. Especially those in public office. Their ignorance of the Catholic faith gives credence to the “fact” … that merely calling themselves Catholic does not make them “such” … that the Church does not have to lay-it-on-the-line for all the muck. Where “they” go the Church does not follow … the Church “LEADS” … if “they” do not follow … so be it. The Church has been out there since Christ … open and up front … The Church doesn’t have to “throw the bums out” … that is not necessary … ALL mother Church has to do is say these are the rules of the “house” … live them or there is the door … “THEY” know what to do!!! TWO bad guys do not make any GOOD decisions. The Church choses the better part … read the Scripture about Mary and Martha … those in public life claiming family connections and running around “looking stupid” chose their plight … The Church chose the better part!! Instead of running around “doing stuff” so everything looks “okay” for EVERYONE … Mother Church sits and listen to the Words of Christ!!

Christ is the HEAD of The Church … all others are there to serve … by the power of the Holy Spirit what “NEEDS doing” will get done … and in God’s time not ours!!

While I do not disagree with anything you have said, the questions I posed still go unanswered. Does any one know the answers?

 

[Jennifer123]

Dear One, “their own false opinion” does NOT stand. Surely enough “public” correction has followed about the truth vs fiction in the matter … the telling of the facts which makes the news informs everyone … because “that” is the news!!

Statements made by a “SO CALLED” Catholic is corrected by The Church … that which was stated is refuted by Bishops and the Pope. That is the news!! Had what was stated been the “truth” there simply would have been no news for anyone and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Do you think anyone reading or listening or viewing the news is left to believe these “false statements” and “less than stella activities” are acceptable to The Church? I don’t think so.

The Bishop also has a responsibility to the one who has publicly stated they are in disagreement with the Church on serious, grave, matter. The Bible states people in this state consume judgement upon themselves when they partake of the Eucharist in this condition. The Bishops have no responsibility, for the sake of these people, to withhold communion from them when they are placing themselves in even greater spiritual danger?

 

[Holly3278]

I totally agree with both the Pope and the Archbishop on this. Pelosi is not a Catholic in full communion with the Church do to her disagreement on such a basic issue that is fundamental to the Church’s moral teachings and so she should not present herself for Holy Communion. She needs to repent and confess her sin of dissenting to a priest and be reconciled to the Church. But will that ever happen? Only God knows but I personally doubt it.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I totally agree with both the Pope and the Archbishop on this. Pelosi is not a Catholic in full communion with the Church do to her disagreement on such a basic issue that is fundamental to the Church’s moral teachings and so she should not present herself for Holy Communion. She needs to repent and confess her sin of dissenting to a priest and be reconciled to the Church. But will that ever happen? Only God knows but I personally doubt it.

This is why it is important that we pray not only for her, but all cafeteria Catholics.

 

[redrosetea]

People in positions of power who deliberately flaunt scripture about committing sin, especially that of murder, and make laws to allow it, are not the same as a naughty neighbor receiving communion in a sinful state

They are lawmakers and are setting an example for people that are not very well acquainted with scripture and how the church is governed,Their actions confuse others, they are giving scandal in a very public way

The church has the obligation to stop them for their own good ,and for the good of others influenced by them

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Illinois FOCA is coming up for a vote in the very near future. Our pastor asked us to contact our state representatives and tell them to vote down this monstrous assault on life. I planned on doing just that until I discovered that my Republican Irish Catholic representative Rosemary Mulligan SPONSORED the bill. She also sponsored the bill in 2005 which prohibited ultrasounds on pregnant women unless specifically ordered by a physician (she is in Planned Parenthood’s back pocket) it is hard to be pro-abortion once you’ve seen an ultrasound of the baby you’re carrying.

Cardinal George should excommunicate her. I vote we bring back the stake.

 

[elts1956]

Illinois FOCA is coming up for a vote in the very near future. Our pastor asked us to contact our state representatives and tell them to vote down this monstrous assault on life. I planned on doing just that until I discovered that my Republican Irish Catholic representative Rosemary Mulligan SPONSORED the bill. She also sponsored the bill in 2005 which prohibited ultrasounds on pregnant women unless specifically ordered by a physician (she is in Planned Parenthood’s back pocket) it is hard to be pro-abortion once you’ve seen an ultrasound of the baby you’re carrying.

Cardinal George should excommunicate her. I vote we bring back the stake.

I have the same problem. Richard Durbin and the other guy, “who took bo’s Senate Seat”, Burris are both pro abort. I don’t know the religion of Burris, but if you go to Durban’s website, he says he is Catholic.

Would you mind sending a link to me regarding FOCA in IL. I have tried several descriptive words, (some not so nice), but can’t find any links. Thanks.

 

[elts1956]

Illinois FOCA is coming up for a vote in the very near future. Our pastor asked us to contact our state representatives and tell them to vote down this monstrous assault on life. I planned on doing just that until I discovered that my Republican Irish Catholic representative Rosemary Mulligan SPONSORED the bill. She also sponsored the bill in 2005 which prohibited ultrasounds on pregnant women unless specifically ordered by a physician (she is in Planned Parenthood’s back pocket) it is hard to be pro-abortion once you’ve seen an ultrasound of the baby you’re carrying.

Cardinal George should excommunicate her. I vote we bring back the stake.

I have just finished reading this thread and am filled with questions. One post that made me sit up was where Pelosi’s granddaughter corrected her on the Eucharist not being a symbol, but real. This says much. If she does not believe in the real presence, why would she believe anything else. I noted the stats on 60% of Catholics voting for Obama. Over half of these never went to church and then another large group only went only once or twice a year. Does anyone know what Pelosi’s record on attending Church is? Does she attend regularly and receive Communion regularly? Can anyone give feedback on this? If she does not go regularly and receives Communion without benefit of confession, this is adding the sin of sacrilege on top of every thing else.

What I have read makes me question whether she is truly Catholic. I state this because to be truly Catholic, we must believe all that the Church believes and teaches. Cafeteria Catholicism does not cut it.

Pelosi has no excuse for having a cloudy memory regarding her Catholic education. I found her bio. on the website below and have reprinted the portion regarding her education. Also, I have no proof of this, but I have “seen” a post stating she received communion twice while she was in Rome “conversing her way” with the Holy Father.

One would think the Catholic Church in Rome would be among the most conservative of all Catholic Churches anywhere in the world, but apparently this isn’t so.

Here is a partial copy of her bio.

notablebiographies.com/news/Ow-Sh/Pelosi-Nancy.html

Nancy Pelosi Biography
Pelosi’s family were dedicated Democrats, and her parents were strict Roman Catholics as well. Her mother hoped that her daughter might do so, (become a sister) but Pelosi was not interested. “I didn’t think I wanted to be a nun, but I thought I might want to be a priest because there seemed to be a little more power there,” she said years later in an interview with Joe Feuerherd of the National Catholic Reporter.

Pelosi was born Nancy Patricia D’Alesandro on March 26, 1940, in Baltimore. She was the last of six children, and the first daughter. The family lived on Albemarle Street in Little Italy. (A Democratic stronghold in Md.)

Little Italy was a working class and largely Roman Catholic neighborhood, located near the city’s main harbor. The local church, St. Leo’s, and the nearby Democratic Party office were the centers of social and economic life for Italian-American families.

She attended the Institute of Notre Dame High School in Baltimore. She entered Trinity College, a Roman Catholic college for women.

If her parents are still alive, she needs a good spanking.npatrol: