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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
If it makes you feel better, I’ll go along with your most. But, I’m sticking to my guns about the “real Americans” and their dependence on the pundits on how and what to think.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
No doubt! Places like NPR show their sickening liberal biases firing Juan Williams. The guy is a left-leaning moderate with real integrity and honesty. The way Imus was trashed and canned, goofy. These networks are so extreme now.
Right. We’d get a newspaper delivered to our (electronic) doorstep every morning called “The Unvarnished Truth.” And it really would be.
I don’t like the appearance of explicit partisanship in any news network. But I think having a variety of news sources which are upfront about their political and cultural worldview (in other words, opinion journalism) is probably better than a monolithic media with unrealistic pretensions to neutrality. I just don’t see how that’s humanly possible.
What I really would like to see is more ideological diversity in the newsrooms at establishment news outlets like the New York Times.
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estesbob
Guest
Sticking to one’s views in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary is that liberalism is all about.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Overwehelming evidence to you, maybe.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Overwhelming evidence of what, bob? Take the Iraq War. We were told there was WMD. We went in. There was none. We were told we’d be “greeted as liberators.” We went in. We were not. We were told Iraq was a base for Al-Qaeda. It wasn’t. We were told it would stabilize the region. It created instability. And after all the loss of life for the Iraqis, allies, the U.S., and all the mayhem and blood-letting, conservatives stick to the story that going into Iraq “was a good thing” and made us safer? It strengthened Iran, exchanged one corrupt regime for another, killed a lot of people, and wasted billions of tax dollars. Sticking to a story can be a bad thing on both sides.
The Democrats like to stick to their story that the “stimulus” helped out economy. After giving it plenty of time to take effect, we’re still at about 10% unemployment, my county is at 15% unemployment, investments are shaky, businesses not hiring and not being too productive, tons of waste, no “green” jobs were really produced, and it’s worse than before? Yet Obama is sticking to his story, too.
My hypothesis? Both sides are two sides of the same tainted, ugly coin!
The Democrats like to stick to their story that the “stimulus” helped out economy. After giving it plenty of time to take effect, we’re still at about 10% unemployment, my county is at 15% unemployment, investments are shaky, businesses not hiring and not being too productive, tons of waste, no “green” jobs were really produced, and it’s worse than before? Yet Obama is sticking to his story, too.
My hypothesis? Both sides are two sides of the same tainted, ugly coin!
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estesbob
Guest
The liberation of Iraq will go down as one of our country’s finest moments. The Obama administration will go down as one of its worst
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
I hope you’re kidding here about the first statement. The second I agree with.
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estesbob
Guest
Could not be more serious. With Saddam still in power we would be looking at the possibility, in the near future, of two Arab powers that hated each other possessing nuclear weapons. My only complaint is we didn’t finish the job-we should’ve taken out IRAN while we were at it
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
I think not. George Bush did not accuse Saddam of developing nuclear weapons, and from what I’ve read, Iraq didn’t have the capability to develop one.
How could we have taken out Iran? We had no reason to. There wasn’t any causus belli. We hadn’t accused them of being behind 9/11 and they were not Iraq’s ally during the war.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Are you aware of the fact that Saddam was a Sunni muslim from Takrit. He HATED Iran and considered them “those Persians.” In fact, Reagan and the gang had great confidence in him and actually sold him the WMD. Iran was our enemy before the Iraq War, and is an even greater foe now. Saddam was a buffer in the region that kept the Shiite Muslim majority from wrecking havoc on Iraq and the other nations in the region. Iraq under Hussein was an enemy to Iran, a wall, an opponent who kept them busy.
Now the Shiites are in control of Iraq and Iran proxy dominates Iraq with radicalism through the Shiites. That never would’ve happened under Hussein.
Do you think both countries would’ve possessed nuclear weapons and do you think Hussein even had the components to build them? Surely Iran wouldn’t have sold them to him!? The “WMD” intel reports were proven to be unreliable and there is no evidence to suggest that he had ANY nuclear ambitions or components. The last time he was trying to conjur some nuclear dreams, the Israelies in the late 70’s bombed the snot out of his facilities in the desert. Since then it was all scrapped.
Iraq was a moving target from the neo-conservative agenda. First it was to remove WMD. There were none. Then it was to remove Hussein. They did that. Then it was to create a democracy. That’s a bit of a joke. I believe it’s highly naive, the neo-con vision, to believe that these folks actually want or have the will to live in democracy. It’s a Western way of thinking that is foreign to them and their Sharia-based, theocratically-minded, Eastern dictatorship point of view. The Republican vision of a Middle Eastern utopia in Iraq is the summit of naive thinking IMO.
There is no argument whatsoever that the Iraq War was a positive thing. The net results versus the carnage and loss of American and Iraqi life show a huge disparity I’m sad to say.
Now the Shiites are in control of Iraq and Iran proxy dominates Iraq with radicalism through the Shiites. That never would’ve happened under Hussein.
Do you think both countries would’ve possessed nuclear weapons and do you think Hussein even had the components to build them? Surely Iran wouldn’t have sold them to him!? The “WMD” intel reports were proven to be unreliable and there is no evidence to suggest that he had ANY nuclear ambitions or components. The last time he was trying to conjur some nuclear dreams, the Israelies in the late 70’s bombed the snot out of his facilities in the desert. Since then it was all scrapped.
Iraq was a moving target from the neo-conservative agenda. First it was to remove WMD. There were none. Then it was to remove Hussein. They did that. Then it was to create a democracy. That’s a bit of a joke. I believe it’s highly naive, the neo-con vision, to believe that these folks actually want or have the will to live in democracy. It’s a Western way of thinking that is foreign to them and their Sharia-based, theocratically-minded, Eastern dictatorship point of view. The Republican vision of a Middle Eastern utopia in Iraq is the summit of naive thinking IMO.
There is no argument whatsoever that the Iraq War was a positive thing. The net results versus the carnage and loss of American and Iraqi life show a huge disparity I’m sad to say.
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estesbob
Guest
Okay. Now you’ve done it! I’m pulling for the Rangers!!!
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tomarin
Guest
I take it that’s a hard thing to do for an Astros fan.Okay. Now you’ve done it! I’m pulling for the Rangers!!!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
If you’re an Astros fan, you’ve got to be frustrated! LOL…Actually, Brad Mills, the manager of the Astros, is from our town here in Central Cal!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Free country, man. I bleed candy corn, Giants all the way!
But I am right about Iraq
But I am right about Iraq
Okay. Now you’ve done it! I’m pulling for the Rangers!!!
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estesbob
Guest
Not frustrated at all. Wait until next year!
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estesbob
Guest
Yes it is. Actually I really don’t care about the World Series. Once the Astros were eliminated I went to my usual postseason “as long as a New York team doesn’t make the World Series” I’ll be happy mode.
One good thing about being an Astros fan is it teaches you humility
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Roy5
Guest
What the Iraq War did
.4. It brought about the heavy persecution of Christians in Iraq, who had been previously protected. (Yes, ironically Saddam had protected them.) Many were killed, Many more fled, mainly to Syria and Jordan.
5. It cost US taxpayers billions, probably a trillion or even two when everything is added up - including all sorts of long-term medical and pension costs we need to provide.
6. It helped alienate more and more moderate Muslims and aided bin Laden in his recruitment efforts. Atrocities such as Abu Graib made effective anti-US propaganda.
7. It alienated some allied nations who had gone to Afghanistan with us, especially their populations.
8. It caused considerable division among Americans here at home who had overwhelmingly approved of the Afghan War.
9. It helped lead the majority of Americans to their present state of being tired of war.
10 It strengthened Iran, Iraq’s main enemy, and gave considerable support to Shia extremists in Iran and Iraq. And al Qaeda entered Iraq, which Saddam had not tolerated.
11 It made Iran more determined to get the bomb, since they saw what had happened to Iraq without the bomb.
12. The war in Iraq isn’t over yet, and the future could produce a continuing civil war, a corrupt government, a divided country, the need for many years of the presence of US troops, etc. It is likely to cost more lives and billions more in costs. Where were those fiscal conservative?
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We made bin Laden very happy by invading Iraq.
1. Our attention was diverted for seven critical years from al Qaeda to Saddam, giving bin Laden time to increase his recruits, resistance and arms in Afghanistan.
2. The Iraq war killed many fine and brave young Americans in the military - 4000+.-and it required two and three and even four tours, stretching our military forces unwisely.
3. It killed 100,000 or more Iraqis, mainly innocent civilians.5. It cost US taxpayers billions, probably a trillion or even two when everything is added up - including all sorts of long-term medical and pension costs we need to provide.
6. It helped alienate more and more moderate Muslims and aided bin Laden in his recruitment efforts. Atrocities such as Abu Graib made effective anti-US propaganda.
7. It alienated some allied nations who had gone to Afghanistan with us, especially their populations.
8. It caused considerable division among Americans here at home who had overwhelmingly approved of the Afghan War.
9. It helped lead the majority of Americans to their present state of being tired of war.
10 It strengthened Iran, Iraq’s main enemy, and gave considerable support to Shia extremists in Iran and Iraq. And al Qaeda entered Iraq, which Saddam had not tolerated.
11 It made Iran more determined to get the bomb, since they saw what had happened to Iraq without the bomb.
12. The war in Iraq isn’t over yet, and the future could produce a continuing civil war, a corrupt government, a divided country, the need for many years of the presence of US troops, etc. It is likely to cost more lives and billions more in costs. Where were those fiscal conservative?
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There's an even dozen of the consequences of the Iraq War. Saddam was evil, of course, and his demise was the one plus, but it wasn't worth it. Besides, we had been his ally when he fought Iran and likely provided him the poison gas he used on rebelling Kurds and others. Curiously, we didn't object to crimes against his own people then.
Saddam was despised by bin Laden because he was a secularist, and he called Saddam an 'infidel'. Iraqi Women before the war were relatively free - no required covering, etc. The highest % of women engineers in the world had been in Iraq. We were pushed into that war by neocons who successfully promoted lies to incite the US public. A sad chapter in US history.
I don't approve of the recent leaking of documents re the Iraq War, but they underscore what a reckless misadventure it was. I don't understand how anybody can say it was wise.
Oh, and the Pope criticized the invasion of Iraq, along with leaders among the Christian Arabs.
I know this is off the thread, but since the subject came up....
We need papers like the *New York Times* which help balance irresponsible extremists like Rush, Hannity, Savage, Coulter, Morris, Malkin, and dozens of others who seem so ready to 'bomb 'em;. Since they don't go off to war, they seem unconcerned about those who go - and many die. Are we really pro-life? If so, we need to work diligently for peace. Did you see how the Middle East Bishops, meeting with Benedict XVI, called for the end of the Israeli occupation? Much of this hatred of the US among Muslims stemmed initially from our unquestioning devotion to Israel, backing it no matter what with billions of dollars, our latest armaments, vetoes in the UN, etc. We must adopt a genuine pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian policy, which I had hoped Obama would have had the courage to so. Not so sure, now.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Hey Bob, keep pullin’ for them Rangers, man! That worked out great for us tonight! Texas BBQ…yee hawwww! 
:thumbsup:
Scoring 11 runs…awesome
Tim Lincecum…amazing.
Freddie Sanchez…heroic
Wiping the floor with Cliff Lee and sending him off the mound with a 6-run route,
PRICELESS!
Seriously though, the Rangers will not win this series in my humble baseball opinion. But I do think they’ll come back to life, especially in the 3rd and 4th games. Heck, maybe tomorrow night. The media has sucked up to them so much and declared them the champs. ESPN in their typical anti-Giants propaganda has already handed them the trophy so they came out tonight with Cliff Lee thinking it would be a picnic. They’ll come down to earth now that they have to lick their wounds. I think they’ll play a tighter game next time and it’ll be closer. But I like our chances with my boy Cain piching.
I’ve watched Matt Cain pitch at AT&T Park and he’s lights-out with a huge wealth of pitches. He’s a joy to watch…
cheers
:thumbsup:Scoring 11 runs…awesome
Tim Lincecum…amazing.
Freddie Sanchez…heroic
Wiping the floor with Cliff Lee and sending him off the mound with a 6-run route,
PRICELESS!
Seriously though, the Rangers will not win this series in my humble baseball opinion. But I do think they’ll come back to life, especially in the 3rd and 4th games. Heck, maybe tomorrow night. The media has sucked up to them so much and declared them the champs. ESPN in their typical anti-Giants propaganda has already handed them the trophy so they came out tonight with Cliff Lee thinking it would be a picnic. They’ll come down to earth now that they have to lick their wounds. I think they’ll play a tighter game next time and it’ll be closer. But I like our chances with my boy Cain piching.
I’ve watched Matt Cain pitch at AT&T Park and he’s lights-out with a huge wealth of pitches. He’s a joy to watch…
cheers
Okay. Now you’ve done it! I’m pulling for the Rangers!!!
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tomarin
Guest
I know of what you speak, Bob.
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tomarin
Guest
I guess Cliff Lee proved last night that he was human, after all.Hey Bob, keep pullin’ for them Rangers, man! That worked out great for us tonight! Texas BBQ…yee hawwww!
Scoring 11 runs…awesome
Tim Lincecum…amazing.
Freddie Sanchez…heroic
Wiping the floor with Cliff Lee and sending him off the mound with a 6-run route,
PRICELESS!
- Status