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Archbishop Dolan Urges Obama: End Campaign Against Marriage, Religious Freedom
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L
livnlern
Guest
Good for Bishop Dolan for speaking out against the Obama Administration and its push to redefine marriage. The problems that could arise from this would lead to more of our rights as Catholic Christians being taken away. It’s summed up in the last paragraph:
[T]he comprehensive efforts of the federal government—using its formidable moral, economic, and coercive power—to enforce its new legal definition of “marriage” against a resistant Church would, if not reversed, precipitate a systemic national conflict between Church and State, harming both institutions, as well as our Nation as a whole.
[T]he comprehensive efforts of the federal government—using its formidable moral, economic, and coercive power—to enforce its new legal definition of “marriage” against a resistant Church would, if not reversed, precipitate a systemic national conflict between Church and State, harming both institutions, as well as our Nation as a whole.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
How would it take away from our right to have a Catholic wedding ceremony? What “rights” are the bishop speaking of that are threatened?The problems that could arise from this would lead to more of our rights as Catholic Christians being taken away.
I
Iron_Donkey
Guest
It wouldn’t, but then again that is not a right. But anyway, the wedding ceremony is not what we’re concerned about it. If two men or two women want to stand before some minister that thinks gay marriage is ok and make promises at each other, then I suppose they can even if they shouldn’t and certainly shouldn’t pretend this is marriage.How would it take away from our right to have a Catholic wedding ceremony? What “rights” are the bishop speaking of that are threatened?
The threat is when the government is stamping approval on immoral actions, especially in such a way that compels others to give approval also. The problem is when I have to pretend that what two men are doing is moral or face legal consequences, when I have to give things to one man simply because he is engaging in immoral acts with another man who works for me, when I have to let my children be told that these immoral acts are ok in school, and when I have to allow two men who are living an immoral and unhealthy lifestyle take over the care of a child from my agency and involve that child in the immoral and unhealthy lifestyle, or be fined and/or shut down.
Two men want to live in the same house, say warm and fuzzy things to each other, and engage in immoral acts? Well that’s their choice, I suppose. But there is no way that I should be pressured to act as though that’s the same thing as the sacrament of matrimony or pretend that it’s even ok.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Catholics hold that the use of artificial birth control is immoral. The government approves of couples using ABC, and so we Catholics are complelled to give approval, too, if not directly, then indirectly through our inaction in not demanding that the government cease such approval. How is that different from the situation with homosexual couples?The threat is when the government is stamping approval on immoral actions, especially in such a way that compels others to give approval also.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
I agree. When I grew up, there was always a house with “The Bachelors.” That was their name.It wouldn’t, but then again that is not a right. But anyway, the wedding ceremony is not what we’re concerned about it. If two men or two women want to stand before some minister that thinks gay marriage is ok and make promises at each other, then I suppose they can even if they shouldn’t and certainly shouldn’t pretend this is marriage.
The threat is when the government is stamping approval on immoral actions, especially in such a way that compels others to give approval also. The problem is when I have to pretend that what two men are doing is moral or face legal consequences, when I have to give things to one man simply because he is engaging in immoral acts with another man who works for me, when I have to let my children be told that these immoral acts are ok in school, and when I have to allow two men who are living an immoral and unhealthy lifestyle take over the care of a child from my agency and involve that child in the immoral and unhealthy lifestyle, or be fined and/or shut down.
Two men want to live in the same house, say warm and fuzzy things to each other, and engage in immoral acts? Well that’s their choice, I suppose. But there is no way that I should be pressured to act as though that’s the same thing as the sacrament of matrimony or pretend that it’s even ok.
Rich-
Look what’s happened in Washington, DC and in Illinois. Catholic Charities can no longer offer adoption and foster care services for the state, even though gays can go to other agencies for these services.
Catholic institutions in Washington, DC not longer offer family plan insurance, because they would have to extend it to “married” homosexuals.
I
Iron_Donkey
Guest
Catholics hold that the use of artificial birth control is immoral. The government approves of couples using ABC, and so we Catholics are complelled to give approval, too, if not directly, then indirectly through our inaction in not demanding that the government cease such approval. How is that different from the situation with homosexual couples?
- Should a policy require Catholic or other organizations to provide insurance that covers ABC, it would be exactly the same on many levels and be extremely objectionable.
- Should no policy exist, then we at least don’t have the government giving signed certificates to couples using ABC saying “what you’re doing is morally good.” (This would also be objectionable, and also somewhat stupid).
- Who said we have to be inactive in our attempts to keep the government from pushing ABC? The Church actually gets a fair amount of flak over this because of the myth that ABC is the solution to AIDS.
G
Gift_from_God
Guest
I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
J
jam070406
Guest
“You will know them by their fruits”I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Okay! These I understand as impinging on our beliefs.Rich-
Look what’s happened in Washington, DC and in Illinois. Catholic Charities can no longer offer adoption and foster care services for the state, even though gays can go to other agencies for these services.
Catholic institutions in Washington, DC not longer offer family plan insurance, because they would have to extend it to “married” homosexuals.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Why don’t we just see what Obama has to say about religion?I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
“I believe that there are many paths to the same place,and that is a belief that there is a higher power,a belief that we are connected as a people.”
Source:Cathleen Falsani,“Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript,”falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html (accessed June 24,2008). Falsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can,that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die.”
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
What is sin?
“Being out of alignment with my values.”
Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
Salvation:
“I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth,or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
These are not statements from a traditional Christian. Much of what he has to say goes completely against what Jesus has to say, for instance Obamas saying there are many paths to God, when Jesus says he is the only way, the truth and life and no one gets to the Father except through Him. Obama is probably a Universalist or an agnostic. I can not tell you is in his heart but he says does not allude to me, that he is a traditional Christian.
R
Rock_Happy
Guest
Interesting spin, but DOMA has been struck down by the courts. It is not an Executive Branch matter.In a remarkable letter to President Barack Obama, Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York strongly criticized “recent actions taken by your Administration that both escalate the threat to marriage and imperil the religious freedom of those who promote and defend marriage.”
More…
It goes like this… the right to marry folks is a state right. In states where same sex couples are married, they don’t have equal rights under DOMA. For example, federal employees legal spouses do not receive the same benefits in same sex marriages, as they do in opposite sex marriages. Therefore, and also as gays are a legally protected class in many states, DOMA is unconstitutional under the equal protection clause of the US Constitution.
This is also why the military requested that the Congress repeal DADT, before the courts forced them.
I am sure that Archbishop Nolan means well, but he is asking the President of the United States to abandon his sworn oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. This would be roughly equivalent to asking the Archbishop to abandon his allegiance to the Church. It’s not likely to happen.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Why don’t we just see what Obama has to say about religion?I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
“I believe that there are many paths to the same place,and that is a belief that there is a higher power,a belief that we are connected as a people.”
Source:Cathleen Falsani,“Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript,”falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html (accessed June 24,2008). Falsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can,that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die.”
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
What is sin?
“Being out of alignment with my values.”
Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
Salvation:
“I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth,or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
These are not statements from a traditional Christian. Much of what he has to say goes completely against what Jesus has to say, for instance Obama saying there are many paths to God, when Jesus says he is the only way, the truth and life and no one gets to the Father except through Him. Obama is probably a Universalist or an agnostic. I can not tell you what is in his heart but he says does not allude to me, that he is a traditional Christian.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Why don’t we just see what Obama has to say about religion?I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
“I believe that there are many paths to the same place,and that is a belief that there is a higher power,a belief that we are connected as a people.”
Source:Cathleen Falsani,“Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript,”falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html (accessed June 24,2008). Falsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can,that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die.”
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
What is sin?
“Being out of alignment with my values.”
Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
Salvation:
“I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth,or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
These are not statements from a traditional Christian. Much of what he has to say goes completely against what Jesus has to say, for instance Obama saying there are many paths to God, when Jesus says he is the only way, the truth and life and no one gets to the Father except through Him. Obama is probably a Universalist or an agnostic. I can not tell you what is in his heart but he says does not allude to me, that he is a traditional Christian.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Obama would not say he supports gay ‘marriage’ because he knows he will lose a lot of voters/likely voters.I highly doubt a Christian would try to restrict religious freedom against Christians
Obama is also not campaigning against marriage. I think it’s worth noting Obama has never actually said that he fully supports gay marriage and since he’s not trying to end marriage, he’s not attacking it
Why don’t we just see what Obama has to say about religion?
“I believe that there are many paths to the same place,and that is a belief that there is a higher power,a belief that we are connected as a people.”
Source:Cathleen Falsani,“Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript,”falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html (accessed June 24,2008). Falsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can,that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die.”
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
What is sin?
“Being out of alignment with my values.”
Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
Salvation:
“I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth,or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
These are not statements from a traditional Christian. Much of what he has to say goes completely against what Jesus has to say, for instance Obama saying there are many paths to God, when Jesus says he is the only way, the truth and life and no one gets to the Father except through Him. Obama is probably a Universalist or an agnostic. I can not tell you what is in his heart but what he says does not allude to me, that he is a traditional Christian.
G
Gift_from_God
Guest
What’s this have to do with anything? He may not be your type of Christian or my type of Christian, but that doesn’t mean he’s not ChristianWhy don’t we just see what Obama has to say about religion?
“I believe that there are many paths to the same place,and that is a belief that there is a higher power,a belief that we are connected as a people.”
Source:Cathleen Falsani,“Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript,”falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html (accessed June 24,2008). Falsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can,that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die.”
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
What is sin?
“Being out of alignment with my values.”
Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
Salvation:
“I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth,or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview
Then why was he sitting in Jeremiah Wright’s church for years?Obama is probably a Universalist or an agnostic.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
I don’t know about animists, but the Church, in the Catechism, acknowledges that the Jews and Muslims pray to the same God as we doFalsani says of Obama:“It’s perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take,saying essentially that all people of faith-Christians,Jews,Muslims,animists,everyone-a know the same God.”
“I think Gandhi is a great example of a profoundly spiritual man who acted and risked everything on behalf of those values but never slipped into intolerance or dogma. He seemed to always maintain an air of doubt about him.
Source:Falsani,Barack Obama:The 2004 ‘God Factor’Interview Transcript.
How does his acting on his values make him any different from a Christian, who is also charged with acting and risking all on behalf of Christian values?These are not statements from a traditional Christian.
So Jews can’t be saved? The Church opposes indifferentism, but certainly believes that Jews and Moslems and others can be saved without being formal members of the Catholic Chuch. Saying that is what got Fr. Feeney excommunicated.Much of what he has to say goes completely against what Jesus has to say, for instance Obama saying there are many paths to God, when Jesus says he is the only way, the truth and life and no one gets to the Father except through Him.
L
livnlern
Guest
This is from The Vatican website and was approved by John Paul II:What “rights” are the bishop speaking of that are threatened?
The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Your citation doesn’t lead to an escalation of "the threat to marriage and imperil the religious freedom of those who promote and defend marriage.” I see, as Qui est ce noted, that there are practical reasons for opposing homosexual adoptions and Catholic institutions granting homosexual couples the benefits of hetero couples, but it hardly threatens marriage or imperils the religious freedom of heterosexual couples. IMO.This is from The Vatican website and was approved by John Paul II:
The Church teaches that respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society. Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
You say you are Catholic, you should understand what a Christian believes, and what Obama says about religion doesn’t fit with Christianity.What’s this have to do with anything? He may not be your type of Christian or my type of Christian, but that doesn’t mean he’s not Christian
Then why was he sitting in Jeremiah Wright’s church for years?
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