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tcay584
Guest
archangel said:
What a wonderfully eloquent man! I think it rocks that we have such visible examples of compassion and respect as this gentleman.
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What a wonderfully eloquent man! I think it rocks that we have such visible examples of compassion and respect as this gentleman.
J
joshua1
Guest
I think I remember reading somewhere in the Bible that the act of homosexuality is an abomination before God. With that in mind, how could anyone consider it a gift. I know we are all born in original sin and have the inclination to sin, but to call homosexuality a gift is mind numbing. Why would God create us to commit acts that are completey abominable? God wiped out two cities so completely and thoroughly that archaeologists are unsure of the exact location because of it. Kudos to Bishop Flynn on a very precise and sincere letter.
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
**
I cannot speak for all lgbt Roman Catholics, but all those I know sincerely do believe their gay sexuality is from God, and hence a gift; a grace, if you will.
This is a terribly mistaken point of view. Should pedofiles see their tendencies as gifts too?
I pray for these people and I hope others will too. I also pray for Fr. Talbot, Archbishop Flynn and other members of the clergy who must stand firm against all that impedes Truth.
**
I cannot speak for all lgbt Roman Catholics, but all those I know sincerely do believe their gay sexuality is from God, and hence a gift; a grace, if you will.
This is a terribly mistaken point of view. Should pedofiles see their tendencies as gifts too?
I pray for these people and I hope others will too. I also pray for Fr. Talbot, Archbishop Flynn and other members of the clergy who must stand firm against all that impedes Truth.
**
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thessalonian
Guest
As a member of the Ushers of the Eucharist I just rejoice that Flynn has come down on the right side of this issue. Our intent was to give him the support and the backbone to do it. To that end we were successful. Regardless of the past we stand behind him in his future endevors to protect the most Holy Eucharist. Let’s let this moment unify us. Christ said “I pray that they all might be one”. God bless Harry Flynn
Blessings
Blessings
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thessalonian
Guest
He is orthodox in his teaching, however without the arm twisting of the Vatican his approach has been mainly pastoral. With the censoring of St. Joan of Arc Parish last fall, the retirement of their pastor, some action regarding the General Absolutions and liturgical abuse that was goiong on, and this action regarding the Rainbow Sashers I am hopeful that we have turned the corner and things will get better. Pray.
Thess
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Island_Oak
Guest
“…As Pentecost Sunday approaches once again this year, I wanted to let you know that there will be many people wearing the Rainbow Sash at the St. Paul Cathedral at the 12:00 noon Mass, on May 15. We will once again be present to celebrate the gift of our lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (lgbt) sexuality, by wearing a symbol of this gift…”
Anyone else read this challenge with a little trepidation? I feel this form of protest is profoundly inappropriate and disrespectful, but what exactly can Church officials do with these protesters (who I am sure are actively organizing to show up in numbers and challenge the Archbishop this Sunday)? How disagreeable is it to imagine security/police intervening in a mass to physically blockade-haul away protestors? Can’t you just see the TV cameras poised and ready for this? You KNOW the coverage will not be favorable to the Church (nor is that the paramount consideration)… this could get really ugly!!
Anyone else read this challenge with a little trepidation? I feel this form of protest is profoundly inappropriate and disrespectful, but what exactly can Church officials do with these protesters (who I am sure are actively organizing to show up in numbers and challenge the Archbishop this Sunday)? How disagreeable is it to imagine security/police intervening in a mass to physically blockade-haul away protestors? Can’t you just see the TV cameras poised and ready for this? You KNOW the coverage will not be favorable to the Church (nor is that the paramount consideration)… this could get really ugly!!
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for_eternity
Guest
I think I’m not understanding something correctly here…
How can these people be allowed to have communion, whether they have their banners on or not? If they are living in sin (which I believe is how the church views homosexuality) how can anyone think they are in line with God, and able to receive communion. What ever happened to having to go to confess your sins so you were pure to receive Jesus into your body? Someone even mentioned that some of these people have been excommunicated…Well if your excommunicated, why would anyone let you receive communion? What’s going on here?
I just got done going 3 months without being able to receive Jesus in communion, because I found out that since I was married (to a member of the opposite sex I might add) in a lutheran church, the Catholic church didn’t recognize me as being married, and thus I was living in sin. But these people who are having homosexual relationships are allowed to receive communion?
Something seems wrong to me. Is it just me?
How can these people be allowed to have communion, whether they have their banners on or not? If they are living in sin (which I believe is how the church views homosexuality) how can anyone think they are in line with God, and able to receive communion. What ever happened to having to go to confess your sins so you were pure to receive Jesus into your body? Someone even mentioned that some of these people have been excommunicated…Well if your excommunicated, why would anyone let you receive communion? What’s going on here?
I just got done going 3 months without being able to receive Jesus in communion, because I found out that since I was married (to a member of the opposite sex I might add) in a lutheran church, the Catholic church didn’t recognize me as being married, and thus I was living in sin. But these people who are having homosexual relationships are allowed to receive communion?
Something seems wrong to me. Is it just me?
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Trelow
Guest
for eternity:
Now my view is that they are in public heresy, and as such should receive a public excommunication, to remove all doubt.
Well due to the fact that they are baptised and professing a formal denial of a defined doctrine of the church, they are in heresy, and by their actions have excommunicated themselves.
Now my view is that they are in public heresy, and as such should receive a public excommunication, to remove all doubt.
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DustinsDad
Guest
Something tells me these folks haven’t read their Bible…
Acts 5:38-39
So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"
Peace,
DustinsDad
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Lisa_N
Guest
Island Oak said:
The priest can give a blessing. Before I was Catholic when I went through the line, I crossed my arms (you often see little kids do it) and thus did not receive communion but did receive a blessing. I think if they are given a blessing by the priest, not only can we pray they will be helped but it’s a way to diffuse the situation.
Lisa N
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Island_Oak
Guest
Lisa N:
I like that. I just hope a blessing will be gracefully and peacefully accepted by the protesters and we don’t have any face-offs or confrontations.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Island Oak:
I had asked my priest if he KNEW a parishioner was in a state of sin and had not received rite of reconciliation, could he refuse communion and he said yes if he KNEW, not if he just speculated or assumed. Since the Rainbow Sashayers are making their sin public, it’s hardly a matter of not knowing.
I just pray that if this protest is staged that it doesn’t get ugly. We are on the same page.
Lisa N
I do too. In our parish the communion line is LONG and the ushers keep it movin’ along so hopefully the Rainbow Sashayers won’t block others’ access to the Eucharist. I think a nice blessing will take the wind outta their sails because what can they say?
I had asked my priest if he KNEW a parishioner was in a state of sin and had not received rite of reconciliation, could he refuse communion and he said yes if he KNEW, not if he just speculated or assumed. Since the Rainbow Sashayers are making their sin public, it’s hardly a matter of not knowing.
I just pray that if this protest is staged that it doesn’t get ugly. We are on the same page.
Lisa N
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thessalonian
Guest
for eternity:
Blessings
Well in reality noone knows if they are having homosexual relationships. Mr. McNeil at least has not divulged that information so without the sash all the AB knows is that he has tendancies toward homosexual behavior which in and of themselves do not disqualify one from communion. Secondly the sash sets them apart as protesters of Church teaching, on which grounds as a class of people they can be denied communion. Normally it is very difficult to determine who should and shouldn’t recieve otherwise. Thirdly in reality without the sash it is kind of an honor system, in which you assess yourself and determine if you should go or not. Honor however is not what these people are about. You, in your situation, could have gone to another parish anywhere in your diocese where noone knew you and recieved. For that matter unless the priest hasa told the communion minister about you, they cannot deny you communion even if they knew of your relationship situation because for all they knew you decided to live celibately until your marriage was approved and had been to confession. Denying communion to someone is not a simple issue.
Blessings
F
for_eternity
Guest
Doesn’t the church say that homosexuality is living in sin? So if these people are openly for homosexuality, they are opposing the churches teachings. Along with advocating women as priests, which is something else the church has made clear will not happen. These people are openly going against the churches teachings, whether or not they are currently in a relationship wouldn’t be the only reason not to serve them communion. Just a thought…
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
something tells me the same thing. I believe there is also a line somewhere (though I cant remember where) that says something like “a man should not lay with another man as with a woman”. How can you read this–the Word of God–and still believe that it is a “gift” from Him (or “her” as they seem to think)?
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thessalonian
Guest
for eternity:
Point of clarification. Homosexual acts, not tendancies are a sin. Therefore one who has homosexual tendancies is not living in sin if he does not act on them. These people are openly for homosexuality and that is why the AB has changed his position this year. Before they had him snowed that they were not opposing Church teaching on homosexual activity.
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Fizendell
Guest
slinky1882:
It’s great to see support for what he said in the letter. The letter was published in the bulletin and I believe in other places including local papers.
for eternity:
=)
Kat
As a parishoner at the Cathedral of St. Paul, Archbishop Flynn is still doing a wonderful job of leading his flock here in St. Paul!
It’s great to see support for what he said in the letter. The letter was published in the bulletin and I believe in other places including local papers.
for eternity:
I can’t answer exactly on this one, but I would venture to guess with several thousand members, people who should not be receiving the Eucharist can easily do so - whether by EMHC’s or going to a mass where the priest does not know you.
And just as a side note - if a couple whose marriage is not recognized as valid by the Church abstains from marital relations during the process leading up to convalidation of marriage, you can still receive communion - after confession of course. Check with your parish priest for confirmation on this. It’s more important for me to receive communion than have relations during this process. Our convalidation is next Monday evening.
=)
Kat
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dwc
Guest
Steve, I would agree with you, except I think it’s pretty clear that the rainbow sashers are clearly using their presence at mass and in the communion line as a political statement and a protest against the church’s teachings. I think Archbishop Flynn was being a little too diplomatic when he stated it as a perception. I think he did that because Mr, McNeill said he didn’t intend to protest and the Archbishop didn’t want to call him a liar. Mr. McNeill can say he isn’t interested in protest, but his actions and his letters actually show he is.
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didymus
Guest
Lisa N:
And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Gen 1:27
Since both male and female are created in God’s image, God must be both male and female.
I’ve never understood why people get so upset over referring to God as “She”.
And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Gen 1:27
Since both male and female are created in God’s image, God must be both male and female.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Not really. God is a pure spirit, and spirits do not have bodies, or genders as we know them, though it is possible that there is a spiritual masculinity and spiritual femininity. However, we do know that the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ, was a human person with a male gender. And Scripture and Tradition have long put forth that God, in so far as He can be perceived in human values and terms, is spiritually “masculine” in nature though His affects can also reflect some aspects of a spiritual “feminine” (this goes for both the Father and the Spirit, neither of whom can be called “she”).
(BTW, I’m a female myself and have absolutely no problems with understanding God in the spiritual “masculine”, as well as accepting my Saviour as a male human and my Mother as a female human, the new “Adam” and the new “Eve”.)
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