Archbishop Flynn wants higher taxes

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What do ya’ll think of this? (I tried to link the story, but you have to register, so I just pasted it below)

**Flynn takes on Pawlenty **
**Patricia Lopez **Star Tribune Published May 20, 2005
After more than a decade of quietly leading the Catholic Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, Archbishop Harry Flynn has stepped into the spotlight on the most secular of issues, openly advocating higher taxes and taking the governor to task for his insistence on holding to a no-new-taxes pledge. Flynn has also spoken out against Catholic gay activists who have taken their protest to the very heart of Catholic ritual, holy communion. He discussed both issues during an interview with the Star Tribune’s Patricia Lopez this week. Excerpts:

On his decision to speak out for higher taxes:

“It’s so easy to make decisions on a budget without really knowing how that decision is going to affect a single mother, someone who needs assistance in health care, someone who needs child care. When I heard them [legislators] talking about cutbacks and no increase in taxes at all, I was compelled to do something. I pay taxes, you know, and my salary is about $2,200 a month plus room and board, so I’m not starving. I wouldn’t mind a tax increase. I would be happy to pay it if I knew a single mother was going to be assisted, to put her child in a day care center so that she could go out and do her work and not worry about that child. I’m not going to let this go. I’m hosting a meeting of religious leaders at my residence within the next month, simply to keep revisiting this, so we don’t let it get lost, this idea that the state budget is a moral statement.”

On meeting privately with Gov. Tim Pawlenty:

“I met with him earlier in the legislative session. I think the governor has a real good heart. I think he’s obviously made a promise of no increase in taxes. And we all like to stand with our promises. But I’ve made promises too in my life. Then when I hear the other side of the story … I’ve changed my mind. It’s my hope and prayer that the governor, listening to the stories of the many, will modify his position. I asked him to listen to the stories. Otherwise, the poor are out there, a nebulous cast of people who we don’t even know. How can he change? Do exactly … what I did. Walk to the day care centers, watch the mothers coming to pick up their children, ask a little child, ‘Did you enjoy your meal today, your hot meal, and what are you going to do when you go home for dinner? Are you going to help your mother get dinner?’ And listen to the answer, ‘Oh, we don’t have any food in our house.’ That’s the way to change hearts. And any heart should be able to be changed by that.”

On helping the poor:

“We live in a society where if someone has a broken marriage, if someone is on welfare, if someone loses a job, we have a tendency to say you didn’t try hard enough. You were lazy and that’s why you’re unemployed. It’s your fault, whatever it might be. So added now to the misery of not having a job is the guilt that I didn’t try hard enough. And that’s not it at all. Generally speaking, if someone is unemployed, that person wants to make a living, to live a respectful life. We as a society should always ask that question, how is this going to affect the most vulnerable among us? I’ve been a priest for 45 years. My experience has taught me that the inner core of every person is good. Every human being. That’s something taught to us by God. We try to encourage that person along the right pathway, so people will not get so discouraged they feel like they cannot make it another day.”

**On who takes care of the poor: **

“I had one man who wrote to me and said, ‘How dare you speak before the committee on taxes. It is up to the church and the church alone to care for the poor. The state has no obligation and this is from the Bible.’ I wrote back to him and I said, would you please tell me where I could find that in the Bible? I never heard of that before. It’s every person’s obligation to care for the other. I don’t need the Qur’an for that. I don’t need scriptures for that, or the New Testament, nor do I need the Old Testament for that. All I need is the sense of the human and a sense of the dignity of every person. Born out of that should be the realization that I have an obligation to this person.”
 
On social justice versus moral issues:

“It’s an easy thing to fall into one category or another, to take just one tenet of one’s faith and run with that and forget all the others. For instance, my faith teaches me that every child in the womb is a child. It would be easy to get on that and forget the caring for that child after it’s born and forget the mother who cares for that child, and forget the tension that any poor mother might experience when she finds that she’s pregnant. We need to be holistic in our approach to the caring of the other. From the child in the womb to the man or woman on death row, we need to remember that is a human being. Taking care of the poor costs us something. I can sit here all day and talk about other issues that are good moral issues, but if I talk about caring for the poor, it’s going to cost me something and cost society something. That’s why we don’t see more of that.”

On changing attitudes:

“In our society we have developed an attitude of ‘I’ll take care of myself, I’ll make it myself and you make it yourself and if you don’t make it, that’s your fault. And if I make it, well, then, I’m very good and I deserve a lot of credit.’ We don’t have enough sympathy for those who don’t make it. Part of the reason, I’m convinced, is that we’ve learned not to see the poor. When the American people saw, with vivid pictures, the destruction that resulted from the tsunami, they responded. They saw the devastation. They don’t see that child who’s going home tonight to no food in the house.”

On denying communion to Catholic gay activists who wear rainbow sashes to mass:

"In the beginning, when I heard from the Rainbow Sash people, they indicated to me that they were not challenging church teaching. They were only doing this to let other people know that there were gays and lesbians who coexisted with them. They were not challenging the teaching of the church on human sexuality. Last year it began to change. The cry became, ‘We’re doing this to defy church teachings so that the church will change its teaching on homosexual relationships,’ which it won’t. In the meantime, I had discussions with the Vatican. I would not be able to let someone who is openly defying church teaching at the same time receive the eucharist and use that reception of the eucharist as a point of protest.

On whether there will be any repercussions for St. Joan of Arc, where sash-wearers continue to receive communion:

“I’d rather not get into that today.”
 
CatholicCorno said:
On changing attitudes:

"In our society we have developed an attitude of 'I’ll take care of myself, I’ll make it myself and you make it yourself and if you don’t make it, that’s your fault.

Have seen that attitude on this Forum more than a little bit. I think it’s part of the conservative, pro-capitalist viewpoint.
We don’t have enough sympathy for those who don’t make it. Part of the reason, I’m convinced, is that we’ve learned not to see the poor. They don’t see that child who’s going home tonight to no food in the house."
It’s very easy in our society, even for Catholics, to be blind to those with whom we have no contact or choose to have to contact.
 
CatholicCorno said:
"I had one man who wrote to me and said, 'How dare you speak before the committee on taxes. It is up to the church and the church alone to care for the poor. The state has no obligation and this is from the Bible.

I’ve seen this attitude big time on this Forum. “The Church and neighbors should help the poor.” " Taxation is theft." " Why should the government steal from my pocket?" " Government charity makes the poor lazy and dependent."

Yeah, just like in the Depression.
 
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Richardols:
I’ve seen this attitude big time on this Forum. “The Church and neighbors should help the poor.” " Taxation is theft." " Why should the government steal from my pocket?" " Government charity makes the poor lazy and dependent."

Yeah, just like in the Depression.
I think it truly wrong to represent the worst of capitalists as representative of the whole, just as it is to choose someone like Michael Moore as representative of all Democrats.

Having said that, I have to say that many of our bishops only look at the surface of these things, and have a very poor understanding of the underlying causes of poverty. They think it’s all economics, but it’s much more behavior than economics.

I’m all for helping widows or the mentally disabled or someone who has lost his job and is looking for work. But, I will not support generational poverty based on licentious sexual behavior and support from some communities for their young men involved in the drug trade. People ought to be held to some kind of responsibility for their bad choices. Paying women to have baby after baby (usually each by a different father) keeps people in poverty much more than anything else. It also leads to young men becoming aggressive and prone to commit crimes. If our taxes are supporting such a lifestyle it is only right that we pull the plug on it and reevaluate what is good for our society and what isn’t, who should get support and who shouldn’t. Just throwing money at people does not given them incentive to clean up their act, but having to finish school to earn a living does do that.
 
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Della:
I
I’m all for helping widows or the mentally disabled or someone who has lost his job and is looking for work. But, I will not support generational poverty based on licentious sexual behavior and support from some communities for their young men involved in the drug trade. People ought to be held to some kind of responsibility for their bad choices. Paying women to have baby after baby (usually each by a different father) keeps people in poverty much more than anything else. It also leads to young men becoming aggressive and prone to commit crimes. If our taxes are supporting such a lifestyle it is only right that we pull the plug on it and reevaluate what is good for our society and what isn’t, who should get support and who shouldn’t. Just throwing money at people does not given them incentive to clean up their act, but having to finish school to earn a living does do that.
Precisely. Very few of the poor in this country are poor for the same reasons you see extreme poverty in places like the Sudan. There, people are subject to the whims of nature, the lack of government protection for their rights, and terrorists.

Why are people in America poor? It’s NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
  1. Single mothers and unsupportive fathers
  2. Substance abuse
  3. Failure to get even a high school diploma
  4. Failure to work full time
I have been involved in a number of social services organizations as a volunteer. Virtually 100% of the people who come to our homeless shelter, hot meal program, or substance abuse program have two or even three of the above.

OK how hard is it?

Don’t get pregnant until you are MARRIED
Get a job and keep it
Don’t drug
Get a high school diploma.

All free.

Sheesh!

Lisa N
 
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Richardols:
I’ve seen this attitude big time on this Forum. “The Church and neighbors should help the poor.” " Taxation is theft." " Why should the government steal from my pocket?" " Government charity makes the poor lazy and dependent."

Yeah, just like in the Depression.
One has to wonder the effect of all this taxation on the majority of families in the US. Specifically, the fact that to cover this taxation, Mom’s work and the family (which is a Catholic priority) suffers.

Social engineering through the use of tax policies is manipulation of the masses. If we give charitably instead, then we make the end decision of who gets the help. By ceding this individual power to “mother” government we have allowed them to take a we know better attitiude than the governments own citizenry.

Government charity without exit strategies does serve to trap those beneficiaries in a cycle of poverty, which is exactly what they intend to alleviate.
 
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buffalo:
If we give charitably instead, then we make the end decision of who gets the help. By ceding this individual power to “mother” government we have allowed them to take a we know better attitiude than the governments own citizenry.
The bishop is right. There are folks like you who see no role for the government in charity and who believe that only the individual or the church should provide charity to the poor.

I prefer to look at things, not from an either/or point of view, but from a both/and point of view. Frankly, I don’t care if St. Whatizname’s RC Church or the City of Wherever or the Communist Party USA pays for some poor family’s bowl of soup. I just want them fed.
 
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Richardols:
The bishop is right. There are folks like you who see no role for the government in charity and who believe that only the individual or the church should provide charity to the poor.

I prefer to look at things, not from an either/or point of view, but from a both/and point of view. Frankly, I don’t care if St. Whatizname’s RC Church or the City of Wherever or the Communist Party USA pays for some poor family’s bowl of soup. I just want them fed.
Just wanting the truly needy fed is one thing. What we have now is quite different. BTW, how many are fed by religious food pantries and soup kitchens?

The government has gone way beyond simple charity with their social engineering programs and forced distributution of wealth.
 
Lisa N:
Precisely. Very few of the poor in this country are poor for the same reasons you see extreme poverty in places like the Sudan. There, people are subject to the whims of nature, the lack of government protection for their rights, and terrorists.

Why are people in America poor? It’s NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
  1. Single mothers and unsupportive fathers
  2. Substance abuse
  3. Failure to get even a high school diploma
  4. Failure to work full time
I have been involved in a number of social services organizations as a volunteer. Virtually 100% of the people who come to our homeless shelter, hot meal program, or substance abuse program have two or even three of the above.

OK how hard is it?

Don’t get pregnant until you are MARRIED
Get a job and keep it
Don’t drug
Get a high school diploma.

All free.

Sheesh!

Lisa N
Yeah. Why should the rest of us have to help people who insist on shooting themselves in the foot.
 
I do not think it is proper for Religious Institutions to lobby government.

They are not taxed so they do not get a say.

If they wish to drop their tax free status then they can start to lobby.
 
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miguel:
Yeah. Why should the rest of us have to help people who insist on shooting themselves in the foot.
Right on! Charity is not just giving them food or money. Charity can also be helping them to break the cycle. This can be done a number of ways, for example a little tough love.
 
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buffalo:
Right on! Charity is not just giving them food or money. Charity can also be helping them to break the cycle. This can be done a number of ways, for example a little tough love.
Like the Ship’s Captain who told his crew that there’d be no Liberty until morale improved.

Tell the poor that there’ll be no food for their kids until they find a decent job.

Right. Compasionate conservatives, are you?
 
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Richardols:
Like the Ship’s Captain who told his crew that there’d be no Liberty until morale improved.

Tell the poor that there’ll be no food for their kids until they find a decent job.

Right. Compasionate conservatives, are you?
How did you get that from what I wrote? I am only arguuing the delivery method, not the need. Don’t put words in my mouth in such a derogatory fashion.
 
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Richardols:
From your phrase, “tough love.”
AHHHHH! Now that is a typical response to any other type of idea to achieve the same end. Tough love has been shown by welfare reform. Did you object to that?
 
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Richardols:
Like the Ship’s Captain who told his crew that there’d be no Liberty until morale improved.
I thought it was the floggings will continue 'til morale improves.
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Richardols:
Tell the poor that there’ll be no food for their kids until they find a decent job.

Right. Compasionate conservatives, are you?
Well, you missed my point. If people bring problems on themselves by their own stupidity, how is that anyone else’s responsibility? And if government coerces one of group of citizens to pay for another group’s stupidity, how is that charity?
 
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buffalo:
Tough love has been shown by welfare reform.
Has it? I thought that tough love was a strategy used for discipline problems with at risk youth. Are you proposing a 12 step recovery program for poor people?
 
I wish the archbishop (and all the US bishops) would go on the offensive and promote PRIVATE charity!!!

Can you call it chairty if the money is not given of your own free will???

To love thy neighbor,
Feed the hungry
Shelter the homeless
nurse the sick

These works of mercy…is it necessary that government do it, or did Jesus truly ask US to do it???
 
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jlw:
I wish the archbishop (and all the US bishops) would go on the offensive and promote PRIVATE charity!!!

Can you call it chairty if the money is not given of your own free will???

To love thy neighbor,
Feed the hungry
Shelter the homeless
nurse the sick

These works of mercy…is it necessary that government do it, or did Jesus truly ask US to do it???
Nope, richardols believes it’s “mother” governments purpose. Mind you, a very young “mother” government as this distribution of wealth only happened recently.
 
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