Archbishop Flynn wants higher taxes

[katherine2]

buffalo:

Specifically?

“Economic Justice for All – Pastoral Letter on Catholic Social Teaching and the U.S. Economy”

 

[Lisa_N]

Anna Elizabeth:

To Lisa,

Just as I had come up with a very condensed reponse to all the school verbiage, you came up with these items that pretty well make the same points.

The opportunity is there for those who want it, providing they cooperate with the schools and realize that (as Ben Franklin is supposed to have said), getting an education sometimes is fun, frequently is interesting, and always is hard. Failure of both students and parents to prioritize and unwillingness to postpone gratification leads to what we have now. We once called that the work ethic.

I think a lot of the problem is with parents who don’t value education. I just read an article about Asian children and how regardless of whether they are native born or immigrants, they are often at the top of the class. I guess some school’s math club had 80% Asian kids and there was a brouhaha about discrimination! However when the issue was studied the researchers found that the Asian parents by and large had high expectations of their children, expressed how much they valued education and stayed engaged with their kids’ teachers on how the child progressed.

Contrast with a home where education isn’t valued, or a single parent who is too exhausted from all her responsibilities to help with homework or to go to teachers’ meetings. It’s sort of a ‘chicken or egg’ thing because we want to reach kids but if the parents aren’t supportive, it seems like a more futile effort.

Oddly when I was growing up we were constantly hammered with those PSAs “To get a good job get a good education” or “A mind is a terrible thing to waste” I really NEVER see any PSAs that focus on the value of education.
Anna Elizabeth:

Yes!!! Those are known as dumbing down the curriculum and passing everyone along. This sort of program is not unlike the “latest is the greatest,” in which all sorts of things (including Charter Schools and Learning Styles - fun, but another gimmick), are tried for, ideally, a minimum of three years, only to be discarded for something newer.

Speaking of, I hear of schools that have dispensed with grades because Junior might get his feelings hurt by that C- And teachers can no longer use red pens because it’s considered too harsh. Good grief! How do they expect kids to WANT to achieve when there is no recognition for achievement?
Anna Elizabeth:

Well, I’m no longer so sure that it isn’t intentional. If, indeed, we know what causes poverty (and read: lack of education), and if there really are those who have “a vested interest in a permanent underclass,” then it certainly is intentional, isn’t it? In fact, the Lady Bountifuls (who are frequently more of the problem than the solution), may themselves be “useful idiots” in a much larger scheme. How’s that for cynicism?

It’s pretty understandable. We see such an explosion of programs and social services yet the core issues are not addressed and heaven forbid someone should be criticized or made accountable whether we are talking a grade schooler or a homeless person who wants to wear pantyhose in the men’s shelter.
Anna Elizabeth:

You ask how to stop the drugs and the sex stuff that is going on (and, actually in and around the schools!). Doesn’t it seem as if even asking the questions leads us to, “How on earth did we get to this position?” Same for the porn, both hard and TV type. No programs, slogans or truckloads of money will fix these things, and, I contend, that we all know it.

Pray unceasingly,

Anna

Prayer certainly beats most of our current ‘solutions.’ Really a tearing down of traditional values (read this as promoting CONSTRUCTIVE vs DESTRUCTIVE behavior) has given us a pretty bitter crop to harvest.

Lisa N

 

[StJeanneDArc]

katherine2:

neither. I get Social Security (until Bush steals it from me) and a pension from the Steelworkers Union.

Wow, way to be inflammatory.

BTW, how is your pension funded? Money stuffed under the mattress? Current union dues (exactly how SS works)? Some giant CD somewhere…but no, that would be investing in the evil banks.

 

[katherine2]

StJeanneDArc:

BTW, how is your pension funded? Money stuffed under the mattress? Current union dues (exactly how SS works)? Some giant CD somewhere…but no, that would be investing in the evil banks.

Would you repeal the Pure Food and Drug Act?

Would you abolish the Securites and Exchange Commission?

Would you allow more Enron’s by repealling the Sarbanes-Oxley Act?

Would you abolish all consumer protection laws?

Would you abolish the Consumer Product Safety Commission?

Would you abolish the Truth-in-Lending Act?

Would you eliminate examinations of federally chartered banks, thrifts and credit unions?

 

[jlw]

katherine2:

Would you repeal the Pure Food and Drug Act?

Would you abolish the Securites and Exchange Commission?

Would you allow more Enron’s by repealling the Sarbanes-Oxley Act?

Would you abolish all consumer protection laws?

Would you abolish the Consumer Product Safety Commission?

Would you abolish the Truth-in-Lending Act?

Would you eliminate examinations of federally chartered banks, thrifts and credit unions?

Didn’t really answer the question did you??

 

[katherine2]

jlw:

Didn’t really answer the question did you??

the pension is funded by employer contributions based on union negotiations and protected by federal government insurance.

 

[buffalo]

katherine2:

the pension is funded by employer contributions based on union negotiations and protected by federal government insurance.

And those contributions are invested in those same big greedy corporations you so despise. Now I’ll wager you wouldn’t be too happy if your pension check was decreasing because those companies were losing money or giving all their profits to welfare or taxes.

 

[Lisa_N]

katherine2:

the pension is funded by employer contributions based on union negotiations and protected by federal government insurance.

Employer contributions by an evil corporation? I am surprised you would accept such tainted money. Oh and BTW if you are counting on the federal insurance to protect your pension, I wouldn’t buy any green bananas.

Lisa N

 

[katherine2]

Lisa N:

BTW if you are counting on the federal insurance to protect your pension, I wouldn’t buy any green bananas.

Lisa N

you’re right. not with the current bozo leading the country.

 

[katherine2]

Lisa N:

Employer contributions by an evil corporation? I am surprised you would accept such tainted money.

Lisa N

Lisa, try to follow along. You some how have extrapolated this from my statement (which I will quote exactly):

“businessman can earn a profit because he can ship his goods by highways or waterways, employ an educated workforce, market his good in a fair and regulated market.”

to which you threw a hissy fit at the idea of a regulated market. Now I have twice posted a good list of market regulations that make our society more human.

I’m at peace with my views on this but I fail to see any reason in what you have presented.

 

[jlw]

katherine2:

you’re right. not with the current bozo leading the country.

Yep, insurance was ALL THAT when a democrat was in office??? Partisan pot-shots, fine. But you are smarter than that.

 

[Lisa_N]

katherine2:

Lisa, try to follow along. You some how have extrapolated this from my statement (which I will quote exactly):

“businessman can earn a profit because he can ship his goods by highways or waterways, employ an educated workforce, market his good in a fair and regulated market.”

to which you threw a hissy fit at the idea of a regulated market. Now I have twice posted a good list of market regulations that make our society more human.

I’m at peace with my views on this but I fail to see any reason in what you have presented.

K2 can you cut the perjorative language? It got you suspended once already and I see you are building up for another onslaught. That there are federal regulations regarding certain areas of public safety does not mean the MARKET is regulated. It has nothing to do with the MARKET, the price at which goods and services are traded.

It means that there are some things that only the government can do effectively (military for example). OTOH when you speak of a regulated MARKET that infers regulating commerce, pricing, wages (I know you are a proponent of the oh so nebulous “just” wage), hours or days services are provided or goods are sold… you know like that so succesful Soviet economy that has since imploded.

Lisa N

 

[Philip_P]

Anna Elizabeth:

Dear Philip P,

I have been wanting to return to your early statements on education, but have had trouble doing this.

Right off, this thread is about my Archbishop Flynn, and his call (along with his brother bishops and, I believe, a few Protestant ministers), for higher taxes in my state, that would come, of course, from my pocket. My initial interest was to point out that this very brave statement isn’t at all very brave in a state noted as the Welfare Mecca of the USA. (For a while, people flew in, lined up, got the cash, and flew out. That, thankfully, has ended.) Besides, of course, it momentarily distracts public attention from his failures in the archdiocese. (See other Flynn threads.)

Now, I must say that I have lost interest in discussing ed with you, as you seem to be more interested in moving from one topic to another, with generalizations characteristic of politicians, who, by providing a moving target, can never quite be pinned down. How did we get from the need for government welfare funds to an essential reading list?

Perplexed, I glanced at threads you have started, and I found the same thing. You have an amazing record of threads started on a variety of subjects in only few months. Many sound like little essay titles, or: “Papers I may Write in the Future,” or even, “Let’s See How I Sound on This Subject.” As a result, there is little I can offer to enlighten you on the current state of ed in America’s Great City Schools.

I only ask that you not actively support Archbishop Flynn’s plan to change my charity to a mandate, all the while distracting attention from himself.

Anna

I was responding to Miguel. I often find that several conversations can take place at once on these threads. I don’t mean to be distracting, but I do like to try to respond to people when they address me directly. And yes, I post in a variey of topics because there are a variety of topics that interest me - I like to throw out ideas and here others ideas and responses in return.

A nice feature of online discussions is that there’s a printed record, so ideas raised earlier can be returned to later. So, if there’s a direction you want to take discussion, just post, and I’ll do my best to respond with the same attention and thought I try to give all posters on these forums

BTW, hope everyone had a good holiday weekend!

 

[Leeta]

The Archbishop needs to talk to someone in his fair, but high tax, state who has a large family. Nowadays, having a large family and only the husband working will make you poor.
Thank God President Bush gives us a tax break. The refund is enough to pay our local property taxes, so far. But twice or more a year, there are votes to raise the taxes and the people here are so rich , and think everyone else is, too, that the tax increases pass!!!
The Archbishop should address the injustice that having more than 2 or 3 children plunges a family into poverty.
Also, I would be worried to leave my child in a daycare (temporary orphanage).