Archbishop Flynn wants higher taxes

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Lisa N:
Going along really nicely Katherine until we came to the word “regulated” in connection with market. Can you show me any economy with a regulated market that ever prospered? Also who determines what is a fair market?

Lisa N
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I think you bit off more that you can chew when you attack a regulated market. People can debate how much and what types of regulation, but a blanket rejection is extremism.

Would you repeal the Pure Food and Drug Act?

Would you abolish the Securites and Exchange Commission?

Would you allow more Enron’s by repealling the Sarbanes-Oxley Act?

Would you abolish all consumer protection laws?

Would you abolish the Consumer Product Safety Commission?

Would you abolish the Truth-in-Lending Act?

Would you eliminate examinations of federally chartered banks, thrifts and credit unions?
 
Quite honestly I think we have a lot of people who have a vested interest in a permanent underclass
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I do too. Its called big business that wants to keep a cheap labor sorce.
 
Lisa N:
To Lisa,

Just as I had come up with a very condensed reponse to all the school verbiage, you came up with these items that pretty well make the same points.
Now how do we convince people to take advantage of our free educational system as well as get the educated adults to become informed and committed?
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The opportunity is there for those who want it, providing they cooperate with the schools and realize that (as Ben Franklin is supposed to have said), getting an education sometimes is fun, frequently is interesting, and always is hard. Failure of both students and parents to prioritize and unwillingness to postpone gratification leads to what we have now. We once called that the work ethic.
We have some schools with a very high dropout rate. Are there programs that work to keep kids in school until they graduate?
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Yes!!! Those are known as dumbing down the curriculum and passing everyone along. This sort of program is not unlike the “latest is the greatest,” in which all sorts of things (including Charter Schools and Learning Styles - fun, but another gimmick), are tried for, ideally, a minimum of three years, only to be discarded for something newer.
We KNOW what causes poverty in this country It is not rocket science. Yet we spend millions supporting the people who have engaged in the very behavior that creates poverty instead of trying to prevent it. Quite honestly I think we have a lot of people who have a vested interest in a permanent underclass so that they can play Lady Bountiful and rescue them. I am sure it’s not intentional…
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Well, I’m no longer so sure that it isn’t intentional. If, indeed, we know what causes poverty (and read: lack of education), and if there really are those who have “a vested interest in a permanent underclass,” then it certainly is intentional, isn’t it? In fact, the Lady Bountifuls (who are frequently more of the problem than the solution), may themselves be “useful idiots” in a much larger scheme. How’s that for cynicism?

You ask how to stop the drugs and the sex stuff that is going on (and, actually in and around the schools!). Doesn’t it seem as if even asking the questions leads us to, “How on earth did we get to this position?” Same for the porn, both hard and TV type. No programs, slogans or truckloads of money will fix these things, and, I contend, that we all know it. 😦

Pray unceasingly,

Anna
 
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katherine2:
I do too. Its called big business that wants to keep a cheap labor sorce.
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Katherine2,

Do you own stocks or mutual funds?
 
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buffalo:
Katherine2,

Do you own stocks or mutual funds?
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neither. I get Social Security (until Bush steals it from me) and a pension from the Steelworkers Union.
 
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katherine2:
I do too. Its called big business that wants to keep a cheap labor sorce.
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Business will always try to put work into the lowest cost set of hands. It is the essence of competition. Do you advocate a communist economy?
 
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buffalo:
Business will always try to put work into the lowest cost set of hands. It is the essence of competition. Do you advocate a communist economy?
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I advocate a just economy.
 
Hello eveyone! 🙂 First time posting, but have read the forums before.

I think a lot of people here who have weighed in on this topic is aware of the Church’s stance on social justice, and I believe everyone here (including the writer) wants to see the poor people of this country improve their lot in life and prosper.

However, I believe the plight of the poor is a 2 part problem: 1) providing for immediate needs and 2) making long term structural changes. Many of the immediate needs of the poor, such as food and shelter is best served by a combination of government and private charities, with a large portion of the efforts coming from private groups. The structural changes will have to be addressed by government. As stated in many of the posts below, the structural changes that would provide the most benefit to the poor (as well as the U.S.) is finding a means to break the cycle of poverty via education and governmental services that would enable poor people to go to work (free daycare, transportation, etc). When the government provides programs that enable people to make a choice to work instead of rely on welfare, we all benefit. It is much cheaper to provide daycare than it is to pay for rent, food and utilities. By incenting people to move into the workforce, the U.S. benefits by reducing the NRU (or NAIRU) via a supply side macroeconomic policy as well as provide dignity to the poor and unemployed.

A true convergence of economics (quasi-capitalism) and morality if I ever saw one!
 
Oops, I forgot to mention, I don’t think that higher taxes is necessarily the best approach. When it comes to making structural changes to the economy that would benefit the poor; i.e., job training and education, transportation services and programs for child daycare, the government does a good job. However, it is not very effective at allocating money to the poor via welfare. Before taxes are raised, the government should eliminate the waste in the programs. The money is already there, it needs to be used more effectively.
 
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MVH:
Oops, I forgot to mention, I don’t think that higher taxes is necessarily the best approach. When it comes to making structural changes to the economy that would benefit the poor; i.e., job training and education, transportation services and programs for child daycare, the government does a good job. However, it is not very effective at allocating money to the poor via welfare. Before taxes are raised, the government should eliminate the waste in the programs. The money is already there, it needs to be used more effectively.
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I think it would be used more effectively if we the people were allowed to keep more of our own money and target that money ourselves (e.g., to some of the more efficient Catholic charities) rather than letting the bureaucrats do it.
 
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MVH:
HA true convergence of economics (quasi-capitalism) and morality if I ever saw one!
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Morality? Your post did not even address morality, in fact it was conspicuously absent.
 
fix,
Any time a poor person can earn a paycheck instead of receive a welfare check allows for the person to become self-sufficient which, in my opinion, is the morally right thing to do.

By providing people on welfare with the tools to help move to gainful employment, this is one of the ways to promote social justice, which is one of the beliefs of the Church. This is what I meant by it being moral.
 
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MVH:
fix,
Any time a poor person can earn a paycheck instead of receive a welfare check allows for the person to become self-sufficient which, in my opinion, is the morally right thing to do.

By providing people on welfare with the tools to help move to gainful employment, this is one of the ways to promote social justice, which is one of the beliefs of the Church. This is what I meant by it being moral.
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“Tools” are not enough. They may be one part of the solution, but sweeping changes in morality are needed in this culture and all the talk of taxes and/or reform do not cut it.
 
Miguel,
I agree with you that when citizens are allowed to keep more of their hard earned money, the economy will operate much more efficiently vs. government directed spending. However, there are certain things (at this time) that the government is better at providing than the private sector, such as roads, police forces, etc. I think it would be an interesting discussion to see if we could figure out a way for the government to “outsource” some of the welfare services to non-profit groups. I think this could be a great way to reduce tax burdens and provide more effective help to the poor.
 
fix said:
“Tools” are not enough. They may be one part of the solution, but sweeping changes in morality are needed in this culture and all the talk of taxes and/or reform do not cut it.
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Yes. A local priest is fond of pointing out that a “culture” derives from a “cult,” and when the cult dissolves, the culture will implode.

Anna
 
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MVH:
Miguel,
I agree with you that when citizens are allowed to keep more of their hard earned money, the economy will operate much more efficiently vs. government directed spending. However, there are certain things (at this time) that the government is better at providing than the private sector, such as roads, police forces, etc. I think it would be an interesting discussion to see if we could figure out a way for the government to “outsource” some of the welfare services to non-profit groups. I think this could be a great way to reduce tax burdens and provide more effective help to the poor.
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That still requires money going all the way to DC first and then filtering down through all the bureaucrats before it gets to the charities. Finding a way to take DC out of the loop all together would be preferable. My first choice would be to just write the charity a check myself. Why does a middle man have to be involved at all? But if that doesn’t satisfy, how about a tax credit for charitable contributions instead of a tax deduction?
 
Philip P:
Also, since we’ve thrown the question out, any other thoughts on criteria for a quality curriculum?
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Dear Philip P,

I have been wanting to return to your early statements on education, but have had trouble doing this.

Right off, this thread is about my Archbishop Flynn, and his call (along with his brother bishops and, I believe, a few Protestant ministers), for higher taxes in my state, that would come, of course, from my pocket. My initial interest was to point out that this very brave statement isn’t at all very brave in a state noted as the Welfare Mecca of the USA. (For a while, people flew in, lined up, got the cash, and flew out. That, thankfully, has ended.) Besides, of course, it momentarily distracts public attention from his failures in the archdiocese. (See other Flynn threads.)

Now, I must say that I have lost interest in discussing ed with you, as you seem to be more interested in moving from one topic to another, with generalizations characteristic of politicians, who, by providing a moving target, can never quite be pinned down. How did we get from the need for government welfare funds to an essential reading list?

Perplexed, I glanced at threads you have started, and I found the same thing. You have an amazing record of threads started on a variety of subjects in only few months. Many sound like little essay titles, or: “Papers I may Write in the Future,” or even, “Let’s See How I Sound on This Subject.” As a result, there is little I can offer to enlighten you on the current state of ed in America’s Great City Schools.

I only ask that you not actively support Archbishop Flynn’s plan to change my charity to a mandate, all the while distracting attention from himself.

Anna
 
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