Archbishop Forte lists 5 key synod issues

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How so?, if the marriage was not sacramental, is does not mean that it was invalid. The couple are still joined in permanent marriage, but lack the accompanying Grace of a Sacramental union.

Sexual acts outside of even a natural marriage are still adulterous, and, like Sacramental marriages, divorce does not end the marital bond.
The Church is able to treat 2nd marriages after a first non-sacramental marriage, differently to how it regards a 2nd marriage after a first sacramental marriage. An annulment becomes more of a formality in recognition of a deficient aspect at the time of the ceremony ie faith in the efficacy of the sacraments. The key to that privilege is to allow faith to grow towards full communion with the Church.
 
The Church is able to treat 2nd marriages after a first non-sacramental marriage, differently to how it regards a 2nd marriage after a first sacramental marriage. An annulment becomes more of a formality in recognition of a deficient aspect at the time of the ceremony ie faith in the efficacy of the sacraments. The key to that privilege is to allow faith to grow towards full communion with the Church.
Not actually true. What you describe is a defect of form, which renders a marriage void, it did not happen., which is NOT the same thing as a non-Sacramental marriage. Those ARE valid and recognized by the Church.

There are ways in which a non-Sacramental marriage is treated differently, a person may have the bond severed in favor of marrying a Catholic. That is know as the Petrine Privilege, and can only be granted by the Pope (hence the name). That can only be offered to the unbaptized.

The second is the Pauline Privilege, when one spouse becomes Catholic and the other, non-baptized, spouse abandons them BECAUSE of the conversion.

Nether of those are formalities, but involve either the Pope directly, or an ecclesial court in the other case.
 
The Church is able to treat 2nd marriages after a first non-sacramental marriage, differently to how it regards a 2nd marriage after a first sacramental marriage. An annulment becomes more of a formality in recognition of a deficient aspect at the time of the ceremony ie faith in the efficacy of the sacraments. The key to that privilege is to allow faith to grow towards full communion with the Church.
I confess I’m not an expert in the the legal definitions of validity and nullity. If a non-Catholic Christian married in a non-Catholic Christian Church… divorces and remarries and then seeks to convert to Catholicism… are they in the same position as a Catholic who has married in the Catholic Church, divorces and remarries civilly and then seeks to return the Church? Or are they regarded differently with regards to the potential for full communion?
 
I confess I’m not an expert in the the legal definitions of validity and nullity. If a non-Catholic Christian married in a non-Catholic Christian Church… divorces and remarries and then seeks to convert to Catholicism… are they in the same position as a Catholic who has married in the Catholic Church, divorces and remarries civilly and then seeks to return the Church? Or are they regarded differently with regards to the potential for full communion?
They are considered to be the same. Even two atheists who marry in front of a judge are considered to have valid ( but non-Sacramental) marriage.

Lets take a hypothetical case

Bob and Sue are life long atheists. They marry in front of a judge.

Bob and Sue later divorce. Bob meets Mary, who is Catholic. They decide to attempt marriage.

Bob must petition a marriage tribunal for an annulment. The conditions of that annulment are THE SAME as if Bob and Sue had been lifelong Catholics who had married in the Church.

The marriage of Bob and Sue is considered to be valid and indissoluble until proven otherwise.

If Bob and Mary got married civilly, and Mary desired to return to the Church, the situation is the same, again, as if Bob and Sue were lifelong Catholics who had been married in the Church.
 
There IS one twist to all of this

Imagine if Bob converts and is Baptized while married to Sue. Sue is SO upset over his conversion that she leaves Bob,

Bob can petition an ecclesial court to have the marriage bond broken. If the court (not tribunal) grants that, Bob would be free to marry Mary.

That is called the Pauline Privilege ( after 1 Cor 7:)

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/04/04/what-is-the-pauline-privilege/

That can only be invoked if both parties were initially unbaptized, and the conversion was the reason for the abandonment.
 
I confess I’m not an expert in the the legal definitions of validity and nullity. If a non-Catholic Christian married in a non-Catholic Christian Church… divorces and remarries and then seeks to convert to Catholicism… are they in the same position as a Catholic who has married in the Catholic Church, divorces and remarries civilly and then seeks to return the Church? Or are they regarded differently with regards to the potential for full communion?
Really those are two different views of the problem. Validity talks to if a marriage actually took place. A declaration of nullity is the Church declaring that a marriage was invalid at the time marriage consent was exchanged. The whole purpose of a marriage tribunal is to determine if a particular marriage was valid or invalid.

For all intents and purposes the religion of the spouses does not impact the investigation. Two atheists. Two Catholics, a Wiccan and Buddhist all are treated the same. The only time being Catholic impacts the question is if atleast on of the spouses was Catholic and married outside the Church without dispensation.
 
Brendan,Usige, And children? Do you know how they are taken into account? I have zero knowledge here.
 
There IS one twist to all of this

Imagine if Bob converts and is Baptized while married to Sue. Sue is SO upset over his conversion that she leaves Bob,

Bob can petition an ecclesial court to have the marriage bond broken. If the court (not tribunal) grants that, Bob would be free to marry Mary.

That is called the Pauline Privilege ( after 1 Cor 7:)

canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/04/04/what-is-the-pauline-privilege/

That can only be invoked if both parties were initially unbaptized, and the conversion was the reason for the abandonment.
So technically divorced and remarrieds from other Churches or civil marriages, could also be denied annulment through the Catholic tribunal, thus preventing conversion to a Catholic sacramental life?
 
So technically divorced and remarrieds from other Churches or civil marriages, could also be denied annulment through the Catholic tribunal, thus preventing conversion to a Catholic sacramental life?
Yes. Every year I was involved with RCIA we would have 3 or 4 couples that were not able to continue in RCIA because they had prior marriages and we’re not willing to go through an investigation into the validity of their prior marriages.
 
Brendan,Usige, And children? Do you know how they are taken into account? I have zero knowledge here.
Sorry, I’m not sure what you are asking. Do you mean if a non catholic couple marries with an intent to exclude children? If so, then that could be grounds for a declaration of nullity. Children are considered part of God’s divine plan for marriage so that requirement is universal to any couple that gets married regardless of their religious affiliation. My apologies if I misunderstand the nature of your question.
 
Yes. Every year I was involved with RCIA we would have 3 or 4 couples that were not able to continue in RCIA because they had prior marriages and we’re not willing to go through an investigation into the validity of their prior marriages.
No, I’m not talking about those who won’t go through the process… I’m talking about those that are examined for null status and denied. So those who married in other Christian Churches, were divorced and subsequently remarried… who apply for examination of the first marriage with the view to having their new marriage made right in the Church.
 
Sorry, I’m not sure what you are asking. Do you mean if a non catholic couple marries with an intent to exclude children? If so, then that could be grounds for a declaration of nullity. Children are considered part of God’s divine plan for marriage so that requirement is universal to any couple that gets married regardless of their religious affiliation. My apologies if I misunderstand the nature of your question.
It s ok. I have said already I know of only two annulments in all my life,just in case.
My question is if they have children,can a marriage be invalid?
Cause some friends say that they would never be able to tell their children their family was “invalid” So it would not cross their minds to ask for an annulment in any case.
They equate rightly or wrongly family and marriage.
So by making null or invalid a marriage,they say one annuls or invalidates the family the children had. They do not want that.
Is it still messy?
 
No, I’m not talking about those who won’t go through the process… I’m talking about those that are examined for null status and denied. So those who married in other Christian Churches, were divorced and subsequently remarried… who apply for examination of the first marriage with the view to having their new marriage made right in the Church.
Yes. If their first marriage is found to be valid then they are in the same boat as a Catholic that remarries while still in a valid marriage. This is one of the biggest sadness that comes from protestants embracing divorce. That being said it is possible that they did not enter a valid marriage because they accept divorce as a possibility. Even at that they still need to have the marriage investigated and abide by the findings of the tribunal.
 
It s ok. I have said already I know of only two annulments in all my life,just in case.
My question is if they have children,can a marriage be invalid?
Cause some friends say that they would never be able to tell their children their family was “invalid” So it would not cross their minds to ask for an annulment in any case.
They equate rightly or wrongly family and marriage.
So by making null or invalid a marriage,they say one annuls or invalidates the family the children had. They do not want that.
Is it still messy?
All catholic,I forgot to say.
 
It s ok. I have said already I know of only two annulments in all my life,just in case.
My question is if they have children,can a marriage be invalid?
Cause some friends say that they would never be able to tell their children their family was “invalid” So it would not cross their minds to ask for an annulment in any case.
They equate rightly or wrongly family and marriage.
So by making null or invalid a marriage,they say one annuls or invalidates the family the children had. They do not want that.
Is it still messy?
Okay, that makes it clearer. Wether they have children or not does not directly impact the vallidity of the marriage. So yes, if a couple has children their marriage could still be declared null.

For example if the wife believed that they would stay together as long as they love each other, but that once they fell out of love they could divorce, it wouldn’t matter if they divorced a month later or 20 years and five kids later. If she did not intend permanence then her consent would be defective.

Invalidity of the marriage does not mean the family never existed. That is why it gets messy. In essence you can have families that are built on an invalid marriage. Declaring the truth of an invalid marrige does not invalidate the existence of the family or make the children illegitimate.
 
Okay, that makes it clearer. Wether they have children or not does not directly impact the vallidity of the marriage. So yes, if a couple has children their marriage could still be declared null.

For example if the wife believed that they would stay together as long as they love each other, but that once they fell out of love they could divorce, it wouldn’t matter if they divorced a month later or 20 years and five kids later. If she did not intend permanence then her consent would be defective.

Invalidity of the marriage does not mean the family never existed. That is why it gets messy. In essence you can have families that are built on an invalid marriage. Declaring the truth of an invalid marrige does not invalidate the existence of the family or make the children illegitimate.
Get it ! Thanks.
They did not mean illegitimate,it was more of an affectionate side.
But now I see that they all mean or meant permanence in their marriages.
Thanks for the effort,I get it now.
 
I’m talking about those that are examined for null status and denied. So those who married in other Christian Churches, were divorced and subsequently remarried… who apply for examination of the first marriage with the view to having their new marriage made right in the Church.
Yes, as Usige mentioned, a tribunal must look at the first marriage, regardless of what faith community it came from, or even if it was done outside of any faith ( like my hypothetical situation). All those marriage bonds are considered just as valid as any Catholic marriage, and are looked at with the same level of rigor.

The one situation that you alluded to that is about as close to a simple formality is Defect of Form. That occurs when a Catholic ( or even a person who had just been baptized as a Catholic and never grew up in the Faith) marries outside the Church without having permission to do so. That marriage is void, since the Catholic is required to follow Church regulations on marriage.

Again a situation

Mike and Ann get married in Baptist Church. Mike is a Baptist and Ann was Baptized Catholic but never really practiced her Faith.

Mike and Ann divorce. Ann meets John, who is Catholic, and they desire to get married in the Catholic Church.

A tribunal will almost certainly (and quickly) declare Mike and Ann’s marriage to be null. Ann is a Catholic and required to be married in the Catholic Church, or get permission of the bishop to get married in the Baptist Church.

Interestingly enough, the requirement of Form is something that is being discussed as a way to simply the Marriage process. The actual effect of that would be to make annulments in this case more DIFFICULT to get.
 
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