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Archbishop Ganswein calls German Church Tax 'a serious problem'
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LordHaveMercy
Guest
Hmm. On one hand, civil governments have an obligation to protect and favor the Catholic Church and so financial support is certainly appropriate. On the other hand, there is always the potential for corruption when money is involved.
C
Confiteor_Deo
Guest
I’m glad His Excellency called this out. They shouldn’t have to pay a tax to receive the Sacraments.
M
Mike_from_NJ
Guest
I must admit having several unanswered questions with regard to that article. It starts:
Later it sas that both he and Pope Benedict were “particularly critical of how the system ties payment of the tax to membership in the Church,” but gives absolutely no specfics.
After that it talks about the witholding of sacrements to those who opt out of the tax process, but that doesn’t appear to be a fault of the government (unless I’m missing something) but instead the Church in Germany. In other words, I don’t see the government telling the Church not to perform sacrements for those who have opted out. It would be the decision of the Church as far as what to do (if anything) with those who have opted out.
A few questions that I hope can be clarified:
But it gives no indication what about the handling of people opting out of the system is a problem.Archbishop Georg Ganswein has criticized the German Church Tax process, calling its handling of people opting out of the controversial system “a serious problem.”
Later it sas that both he and Pope Benedict were “particularly critical of how the system ties payment of the tax to membership in the Church,” but gives absolutely no specfics.
After that it talks about the witholding of sacrements to those who opt out of the tax process, but that doesn’t appear to be a fault of the government (unless I’m missing something) but instead the Church in Germany. In other words, I don’t see the government telling the Church not to perform sacrements for those who have opted out. It would be the decision of the Church as far as what to do (if anything) with those who have opted out.
A few questions that I hope can be clarified:
- Is the Archbishop in favor of doing away with the church tax or altering it?
- If the Archbiship would like to see the tax process altered what about the opting out process does he disagree with?
- Did the Archbishop have a problem with the process before the 150,000 member decrease since 2015 noted in the article? If so, what about the process specifically does he want changed. If not, does he feel that this change in membership has led to not receiving a fair share of funds?
A
alwayswill
Guest
I’m glad His Excellency called this out. They shouldn’t have to pay a tax to receive the Sacraments.
" One particularly controversial aspect is how Catholics are dealt with who decide to no longer pay the tax – for whatever reason. “They are effectively excommunicated,"…
After that it talks about the witholding of sacrements to those who opt out of the tax process, but that doesn’t appear to be a fault of the government (unless I’m missing something) but instead the Church in Germany. In other words, I don’t see the government telling the Church not to perform sacrements for those who have opted out. It would be the decision of the Church as far as what to do (if anything) with those who have opted out.
…
catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-ganswein-calls-german-church-tax-a-serious-problem-27831/
Voris’ website states “German Bishops” (plural)
Can you tell how many German Bishops are involved?
T
twf
Guest
All of them. The German Bishops’ Conference issued a statement, last year I think it was, clarifying that those who opt out of the Church tax would be denied the sacraments. This is the same conference that was actively pushing for communion for the divorced and illicitly remarried… They seem to have infinite mercy for any number of sins, but zero patience for those who don’t pay up. I hate to speak ill of bishops and want to believe the best, but this is how it comes across to a North American layman looking in from the outside. While our bishops might take home a modest salary of say $24k, German bishops enjoy a 6 figure salary compliments of the mandatory tax." One particularly controversial aspect is how Catholics are dealt with who decide to no longer pay the tax – for whatever reason. “They are effectively excommunicated,"
catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-ganswein-calls-german-church-tax-a-serious-problem-27831/
Voris’ website states “German Bishops” (plural)
Can you tell how many German Bishops are involved?
R
Randolph
Guest
For those German Catholics who wanted to leave the Church, it makes great sense that they would not register with the government as Catholics. They would not want to associate with Church in any way. Therefore, their tax money would go wherever else that they choose .
But, for those German Catholics being singled out by the German bishops for not registering as Catholics for tax collection purpose, what are the real reasons them for doing so? Are they trying to make a statement to the Church in Germany? Clearly, they still want to remain in the Catholic Church because they still want to receive the Sacraments, and the threat of excommunication from the German bishops seems to matter to these Catholics.
Two follow up questions: Are all Germans required to pay the “religious” tax which is about 3-4% of their salary? What about atheists, or those Germans, who don’t want their tax money to go to any religious organizations, or any organizations?
Can someone at CAF shed meaningful insights on this matter?
Thank you,
But, for those German Catholics being singled out by the German bishops for not registering as Catholics for tax collection purpose, what are the real reasons them for doing so? Are they trying to make a statement to the Church in Germany? Clearly, they still want to remain in the Catholic Church because they still want to receive the Sacraments, and the threat of excommunication from the German bishops seems to matter to these Catholics.
Two follow up questions: Are all Germans required to pay the “religious” tax which is about 3-4% of their salary? What about atheists, or those Germans, who don’t want their tax money to go to any religious organizations, or any organizations?
Can someone at CAF shed meaningful insights on this matter?
Thank you,
M
Mike_from_NJ
Guest
Yes, I saw that; but my point was that the article (at least in the beginning) makes it sound that at least one of the problems they have is with the German government. I’m just trying to see if the Archbishop does have a problem with the German government on this matter or if the article only gives that impression." One particularly controversial aspect is how Catholics are dealt with who decide to no longer pay the tax – for whatever reason. “They are effectively excommunicated,"
catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-ganswein-calls-german-church-tax-a-serious-problem-27831/
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Note, if you were born in Germany to Catholic parents you got marked as Catholic from then basically and the only way to not pay it is sign a government document saying you are not a Catholic, in effect public apostasy.
H
Hatikvah
Guest
That’s insane. This isn’t even the “rapid secularization of the West” anymore, it’s practically financial discrimination that will turn into persecution!Note, if you were born in Germany to Catholic parents you got marked as Catholic from then basically and the only way to not pay it is sign a government document saying you are not a Catholic, in effect public apostasy.
As someone else said, I’m glad that His Excellency called this out for the sake of virtue and faith. This is sick.
J
Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Those are the government’s rules, for the German clergy it is basically “Okay, you have said in a legal document that you are not Catholic we will respect what you have said and treat you as a non-Catholic”That’s insane. This isn’t even the “rapid secularization of the West” anymore, it’s practically financial discrimination that will turn into persecution!
As someone else said, I’m glad that His Excellency called this out for the sake of virtue and faith. This is sick.
H
Hatikvah
Guest
So they are not truly leaving the Catholic Church if they sign off but still remain Catholic at heart?Those are the government’s rules, for the German clergy it is basically “Okay, you have said in a legal document that you are not Catholic we will respect what you have said and treat you as a non-Catholic”
J
Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
Well if someone publicly denounces Catholicism then I don’t think it is wholly unreasonable to treat them as a non-Catholic, the issue is people renouncing Catholicism to not pay the taxes for whatever reason, but then not actually wanting to leave the Church.So they are not truly leaving the Catholic Church if they sign off but still remain Catholic at heart?
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